I have, as yet not re-watched any season but no 2 still stands to me as the shows highlight

Season 2 had some highs, but oh lord it was painfully boring at times. Season 4 for me is the show's highlight.

 

Disagree that the show does not have the balls to kill off main characters, when you follow source material you kinda have to stick loosely to it. I'm sure Daryl would have been killed off a while ago, but his character's popularity is crazy. I expect if any of the big characters were to die it would be Glenn/Maggie.

Season 2 had some highs, but oh lord it was painfully boring at times. Season 4 for me is the show's highlight.

 

Disagree that the show does not have the balls to kill off main characters, when you follow source material you kinda have to stick loosely to it. I'm sure Daryl would have been killed off a while ago, but his character's popularity is crazy. I expect if any of the big characters were to die it would be Glenn/Maggie.

 

Well in the comics Dale dies much later in the tainted meat storyline Bob died from, but they had the balls at the time to off him. Also Andrea plays a huge role in the comics deep into the ASZ storyline and they offed her in season 3.

 

Judith also dies but don't think they have the balls to do that now, Rick loses an arm, wont happen either and Daryl isn't even in the comics so could have been killed any time but it wont happen.

 

 

Well in the comics Dale dies much later in the tainted meat storyline Bob died from, but they had the balls at the time to off him. Also Andrea plays a huge role in the comics deep into the ASZ storyline and they offed her in season 3.

 

Judith also dies but don't think they have the balls to do that now, Rick loses an arm, wont happen either and Daryl isn't even in the comics so could have been killed any time but it wont happen.

 

Think the reason Dale was killed off early was because he was very loyal to original showrunner. And Andrea too - I'm sure I read somewhere that the current showrunner would not have killed her off.

 

What you have to remember is the books/comics and the TV world are two separate things. In all adaptations you have to make changes to the source material because it cannot all be shown on TV. I mean on Game of Thrones they've done numerously similar things too.

Indeed, at the end of the day the TV series has to do its own thing. It's too difficult to follow the source material that closely, because it would be constrictive & at times impossible. I think it's done well to generally keep the spirit of the comic series throughout so many seasons, even if there's different details.

 

(I don't think killing Shane off was "brave"; he dies very early on in the comics and I think it was evident throughout Season 2 that things were going in that direction... Shane slowly losing the plot / his affair with Lori. His role was Rick's original friend/work colleague and rival in terms of Lori, there's no way he was ever "equally important". They'd gone as far as possible with him before the bad guy switched to being The Governor).

I agree with Rooney that Season 4 has definitely been the best so far, followed by Seasons 1 and 5. 2 and 3 were mediocre. I blame Andrea's character development for ruining the Woodbury arc, I just couldn't stand her.

 

 

As for the mid-season finale, I dunno what to think. First of all, you'd expect more Glenn/Daryl/Abraham/Sasha, but NO...

Secondly, there definitely were signs of Carol going crazy in previous episodes (she kills with too much ease), but I didn't want them to go there and unfortunately I think they have. I don't like how it's playing out for her character.

Thirdly, I had issues with Tara and Rosita just letting the Wolf guy take Zoey-from-Nurse-Jackie (or whatever her name is in TWD). They'd have more chances of saving her by shooting him in the head.

Finally, they should have gotten out of the house in pairs or something, not all together. Are they dumb? What if Judith had started crying? That would've doomed them all. The little kid is probably dead, by the way. Good.

Hmm. I'm also in two minds about this episode. It definitely wasn't as "frantic" as I had thought it'd be, so I am slightly let down. However, it has set up for another potentially brilliant opener! In regards to Carol's character, what did you mean? Because I can't see this going any other way other than Morgan realising that you have to do, what you have to do and being more "in control" of things. Carol will still be taking no prisoners and killing far too quickly etc.. She'll blame Morgan for letting Wolf guy get away.

 

I'm disappointed at the lack of Glen during this episode. Which makes me think are they going to kill Maggie off in the season opener as a "shock" death? That lad deserves to die for being such a nuisance!

Any point the poster earlier in the thread was trying to make about Morgan and Rick having some sort of moral plotline over whether to kill or not to kill now are surely out the window after this episode. Morgan's actions once again put people in danger and potentially have got the doctor killed.

 

Deanna dying seemed a complete waste, she, Aaron and Rick's new girlfriend are the only ASZ people we have actually got to know (Ron too but he isn't going to last long is he let's be honest) and the impact of her death was nowhere near what it would have been had that been Tara or Sasha.

 

The pacing of the episode was pretty dire, slow as hell for 35 minutes then the silly Morgan/Carol plot (Rosita and Tara gave their 2 guns up to a guy with just a knife and then when the killer wolf gets the guns he doesn't kill them) and the main group getting out the house all shoved into the last 5 minutes.

 

The big mid season final with half the main cast missing (Daryl, Sasha, Abe, Glenn) and the only death being not one of the originals but one of the ASZ people. I feel like I'm repeating myself but too big a cast and not the balls to kill main characters any more.

taking pointers from carol there, aren't you?

 

it's not about killing off characters. death isn't always the best twist here. what's gonna happen when they run out of original characters to kill off? being disappointed that they didn't kill someone... sorry, ANYONE... off is quite ridiculous. people want drama but leaving things hanging like that is in fact a better way to end the midseason. they can do a juicy michonne killing in the season finale :)

taking pointers from carol there, aren't you?

 

it's not about killing off characters. death isn't always the best twist here. what's gonna happen when they run out of original characters to kill off? being disappointed that they didn't kill someone... sorry, ANYONE... off is quite ridiculous. people want drama but leaving things hanging like that is in fact a better way to end the midseason. they can do a juicy michonne killing in the season finale :)

 

You introduce new interesting characters so the dead weight of Rosita, Eugene, Father Gabriel (Daryl and Michonne are getting dangerously close to redundant too) who really aren't needed as have run their character story lines can have a more impacting death than Deanna's was.

 

Rosita taking Deanna's death would have been more sad and left Deanna to develop more. As it is, someone who was getting screen time and developing the plot is now dead and 1 line every 3 episodes Rosita isn't.

 

Sam is going to die next, again it wont have the impact it could because of his limited time on the show. Lizzie's story line was a great example of getting it right, enough time to get to know her, good story line that took time to run its course and a great pay off death that impacted Carol, Tyreese and the viewer.

A disappointing mid season finale, mainly because almost every single character seemed to make completely moronic decisions. Even the 'ending' sucked. It could have played out like Hitchcock did it with The Birds but it came across as lacking in any tension.

 

The only real redeeming feature was the set up for the next half with Negan, Daryl and co

Any point the poster earlier in the thread was trying to make about Morgan and Rick having some sort of moral plotline over whether to kill or not to kill now are surely out the window after this episode. Morgan's actions once again put people in danger and potentially have got the doctor killed.

 

It wasn't a plot line, it's called subtext. They're different things. A plot is the story as events happen, a subtext is the theme or message underneath that.

The point still stands. Did you even read the article I linked where Lennie James pretty much said the same thing? It's been one of the key features for the whole half season and like all key plot threads it comes to either a crossroads or a climax at a finale. Morgan's decisions so far have been central to his character but he will most likely question that now.

And equally Rick has had Deanna little speech about how 'they're all your people'. We may well find Rick re-evaluating his outlook on the residents. At least those that survive.

And you can look at your final point from different angles. They rather clumsily but necessarily used Carol as a stand in for Rick with the whole 'I will kill you to kill him to stop any more people being killed' speech. Morgan's actions did increase the risk but it was Carol who forced the issue and made it into life threatening situation there and then.

The question of whether you can survive in this world better through killing or valuing life has been one of the key elements of TWD and particularly so far this season. It's really quite Nietzschean

It wasn't a plot line, it's called subtext. They're different things. A plot is the story as events happen, a subtext is the theme or message underneath that.

The point still stands. Did you even read the article I linked where Lennie James pretty much said the same thing? It's been one of the key features for the whole half season and like all key plot threads it comes to either a crossroads or a climax at a finale. Morgan's decisions so far have been central to his character but he will most likely question that now.

And equally Rick has had Deanna little speech about how 'they're all your people'. We may well find Rick re-evaluating his outlook on the residents. At least those that survive.

And you can look at your final point from different angles. They rather clumsily but necessarily used Carol as a stand in for Rick with the whole 'I will kill you to kill him to stop any more people being killed' speech. Morgan's actions did increase the risk but it was Carol who forced the issue and made it into life threatening situation there and then.

The question of whether you can survive in this world better through killing or valuing life has been one of the key elements of TWD and particularly so far this season. It's really quite Nietzschean

 

As a viewer though it isn't interesting at least for me, as we have been here loads of times before and it always works out for the worst to not kill enemies. The Gov came back and killed people (although they never had a true chance to kill him). The black guy they shut out the prison came back and cause havoc. The cannibals the group could have gone back and killed after the explosion and didn't and it came back to 'bite' Bob. Tyreese didn't kill the guy who threatened to kill Judith and he came back to be a threat with them. Morgan didn't kill the wolf who came back and attacked and slaughtered ASZ residents and the one he kept has now used Denise as a hostage.

 

How many times can they play that storyline?

 

If someone is a threat it is kill or be killed, surely no one can argue with this now without it being stupidly forced like Morgan's character is now.

I never said I thought Morgan's actions were the best choice, certainly not plot-wise but from a thematic point of view they are key. Although it would've been more effective if we had spent more time having the character properly fleshed out. I have previously said the show's formula is a tad repetitive and they really need to mix things up a bit, but the fact they keep returning to the same theme of to kill or not to kill with multiple characters shows just how central that question is to the show.

I merely pointed out why Morgan is important to the show right now.

You introduce new interesting characters so the dead weight of Rosita, Eugene, Father Gabriel (Daryl and Michonne are getting dangerously close to redundant too) who really aren't needed as have run their character story lines can have a more impacting death than Deanna's was.

 

Rosita taking Deanna's death would have been more sad and left Deanna to develop more. As it is, someone who was getting screen time and developing the plot is now dead and 1 line every 3 episodes Rosita isn't.

 

Sam is going to die next, again it wont have the impact it could because of his limited time on the show. Lizzie's story line was a great example of getting it right, enough time to get to know her, good story line that took time to run its course and a great pay off death that impacted Carol, Tyreese and the viewer.

 

But Deanna's death is a plot device, killing Rosita/Tara in that circumstance would not have aided the plot. By Deanna dying, it gives Rick full control over the community. He's everyone's leader now.

 

I thought the mid-season finale was average, it was good pacing, but I was waiting for it all to kick off. Guessing we're gonna get that in the opener! That kid is so gonna freak out. Interested to see what happens with the guy and the nurse too.

Do we want Rick back in charge of everything AGAIN?

 

 

Maybe, maybe not. Depends what they do with it.

 

Walking Dead the TV show is basically Rick's story

Rick's my favourite character, so I want to see him remain the "leader". I know so many people want him to die, but when Rick dies, the show dies imo. No matter how much I like Daryl/Michonne/the others. He's seen it all. He's trusted people before and it's backfired on him. He knows exactly what he's doing, whereas Carol doesn't seem to be in control too much and just acts without ever thinking about it.

 

I'm really intrigued to see if they can actually manage to get Alexandria up and going again. It'd be a nice change for the show and to see them actually "make a home" out of somewhere. The closest they ever got was the prison, but after everything that went off, it'd be interesting to see how the "new Rick" would deal with that sort of situation now and whether he'll be more prepared for it or not.

I really want them to move on and explore somewhere new. I feel like the scenery of forest and trees has left me cold to it all now. I kind of liked the change of scenery in the ep where Carol and Daryl were in the city together and although I didn't like the hospital story line with Beth again the change of location was refreshing.

I think the whole "put zombie guts all over yourself to mask that you're one of the living" thing is a bit of a weak spot in the show. It's like, if that's all it takes to fool the walkers, to the extent that you can walk amongst a swarm of them, then why not walk around like that more often? (particularly when they were out in the wilderness and vulnerable). That lowers the suspense levels for me, somewhat.

 

The Carol/Morgan situation was a bit frustrating. Although it certainly furthers my view that Morgan is a huuuuge liability to the group, Carol's own behaviour was very rash and lead to things spiralling out of control. Whyyyy did Denise help the Wolf? ;( Also you'd think in such close proximity that Rosita/Tara could surely have shot the Wolf in the head before he could even react?

 

The episode was weird in that it didn't quite feel like a mid-season finale to me. Maybe it was the lack of a "shock" (Deanna getting bitten didn't quite cut it, for me, although I was actually fond of her character). Anyway, bring on the second half! Will be interesting to see where things go from here.

 

I do agree Sammy, the amount of time they've spent in the forests has made that surrounding seem quite boring. City scenes... *.*