Average pay across Europe :

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Europ...by_average_wage

 

If you compare UK to say, Poland - our average wage is 2.5 times theirs, so they could hardly be blamed for coming here to take advantage of that.

 

However Tory insinuations that unemployed Brits are 'lazy' are disingenuous in this context - if there were somewhere *they* could go to earn 2.5 times the money for the same work, do you honestly think they would turn that down??

The will of SOME of the people x

 

The point is - how many people wanted Brexit could obviously not be determined until *after* the referendum (since finding that out was the whole purpose!), so any claim they campaigned 'against the will of the people' cannot be justified.

To be fair, they couldn't know the will of the people of NI until *after* the vote.

 

Now they know and continue to choose policies against the will of the majority of NI

Average pay across Europe :

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Europ...by_average_wage

 

If you compare UK to say, Poland - our average wage is 2.5 times theirs, so they could hardly be blamed for coming here to take advantage of that.

 

However Tory insinuations that unemployed Brits are 'lazy' are disingenuous in this context - if there were somewhere *they* could go to earn 2.5 times the money for the same work, do you honestly think they would turn that down??

Those numbers are meaningless in a vacuum. Comparative cost of living stats are required to make decent comparisons.

 

I don't get the point you are making at the end.

Average pay across Europe :

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Europ...by_average_wage

 

If you compare UK to say, Poland - our average wage is 2.5 times theirs, so they could hardly be blamed for coming here to take advantage of that.

 

However Tory insinuations that unemployed Brits are 'lazy' are disingenuous in this context - if there were somewhere *they* could go to earn 2.5 times the money for the same work, do you honestly think they would turn that down??

 

Now compare pay to cost of living across Europe, throw in how the low-paid jobs give a quality of life for the largely young & healthy people doing them, and their intent to work here temporarily than go back with a better standard of life afforded in a country where, for example, homes don't cost 10 times your annual wage.

 

Picking and choosing statistics proves nothing unless you look at the whole picture. Tax? Cost of goods? Why do Polish work in most other EU countries (not just the UK where it has strong historical ties)? Is it that Poland has no jobs? Why is it the cleaning and field labourer jobs can't get filled by British workers (low paid) - this is the words of the people looking for workers? Why is it they PREFER to employ better-educated foreigners than poorly-educated unreliable British people? Is it that they don't turn up for work, sack them, and they end up back looking for a job with bad references? Is it that the foreign workers turn up for work no matter what, out of sheer gratitude, and work hard long hours without complaining, so don't get sacked?

 

The facts speak for themselves. Some British people don't apply for low-paid jobs (and they have the opportunity to go abroad and work just as much as the Polish do, say, to Denmark, where wages are also higher than the UK - as is the cost of living). Why is that they prefer to stay on benefits or gain supplemental tax-payer-supported incomes? If employers have to employ foreigners ask yourself why that is? How will stopping EU citizens coming over affect that? So many questions, so few answers...

Now they know and continue to choose policies against the will of the majority of NI

 

That can't be avoided, as the decision was made for the UK as a whole.

 

Those numbers are meaningless in a vacuum. Comparative cost of living stats are required to make decent comparisons.

 

I was waiting for you say that :

 

https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/ranki...&region=150

To be fair, they couldn't know the will of the people of NI until *after* the vote.

To be just as fair, the result in Northern Ireland was not a surprise. They were always expected to vote Remain.

To be just as fair, the result in Northern Ireland was not a surprise. They were always expected to vote Remain.

 

Because they more Europhillic, or because they thought they had more to lose?

That can't be avoided, as the decision was made for the UK as a whole.

I was waiting for you say that :

 

https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/ranki...&region=150

 

 

Yes it can be avoided because their duty is for the peace process to remain and to govern, not prop up a bitterly divided Tory government for cash.

 

Thanks. That exactly supports what I was saying, wages might be much lower in Poland but the cost of living is much lower too, so wages in the UK while paying out on rent and food and bills etc doesn't make you that much better off except if you intend to try and save and then return.

 

It also supports my statement that denmark is higher, and has the fabulous news that the non-EU Switzerland (which pays through the nose for access) has the highest cost of living by far. Even with all those shady bank accounts. Looking good for the UK eh?

Millions of workers face having to pay hundreds of pounds more each year in 'radical' new plan to 'tax the over-40s'

 

Plans would mean a considerable National Insurance increase for the over-40s

They have been put forward by ex-Deputy Prime Minister Damian Green

He was forced to resign over claims of inappropriate behaviour and laptop porn

MP plans to use 'new backbench freedom' to tackle UK's social care crisis

 

Radical plans to make millions of workers aged 40 and over pay hundreds of pounds extra in tax every year to fund the growing number of people who will live to 100 have been put forward by ex-Deputy Prime Minister Damian Green.

 

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-54...l#ixzz586GQ35U6

 

**********************

 

I suspect articles like this are the only reason other controversial figures are still in the cabinet. Just imagine what Boris might come up with if relieved of the doctrine of Collective Responsibility!

 

Millions of workers face having to pay hundreds of pounds more each year in 'radical' new plan to 'tax the over-40s'

 

Plans would mean a considerable National Insurance increase for the over-40s

They have been put forward by ex-Deputy Prime Minister Damian Green

He was forced to resign over claims of inappropriate behaviour and laptop porn

MP plans to use 'new backbench freedom' to tackle UK's social care crisis

 

Radical plans to make millions of workers aged 40 and over pay hundreds of pounds extra in tax every year to fund the growing number of people who will live to 100 have been put forward by ex-Deputy Prime Minister Damian Green.

 

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-54...l#ixzz586GQ35U6

 

**********************

 

I suspect articles like this are the only reason other controversial figures are still in the cabinet. Just imagine what Boris might come up with if relieved of the doctrine of Collective Responsibility!

 

More likely it's a concerted attack on him personally for having the affront to not toeing the Daily Mail line on Hard Brexit. Even if not, he's not in the government so it doesn't deserve any more or less space than any other MP making suggestions.

 

Problems with the logic: people under 40 will also live longer and get dementia. You can't single out one disease and try and fund it by one section of the community. The NHS is designed to pool money and allocate resources. That the Tories have chosen to exclude dementia as "care" and not "health" is a political choice. You get cancer or a failing kidney you get assistance. You get dementia you don't (unless you have used up all your life savings and property to pay for it). Speaking as a carer (who hasnt put his parent into a care home) here's the full list of assistance we get and have had:

 

mum: £60 a week to assist (that pays for 2 hours of help with showering)

 

me: a free cinema ticket once a week (I haven't applied for it)

 

So, where exactly is the cost to the state that all of this is supposedly costing society?

 

It's in the cost of care homes, largely privately-run at around £750 a week. Despite Tory obsessions with private sector being cheaper that isn't the case, council-run is and always has been cheaper, just as professional (more so in likelihood as they get monitored) and more secure from going bankrupt...

 

Millions of workers face having to pay hundreds of pounds more each year in 'radical' new plan to 'tax the over-40s'

 

Plans would mean a considerable National Insurance increase for the over-40s

They have been put forward by ex-Deputy Prime Minister Damian Green

He was forced to resign over claims of inappropriate behaviour and laptop porn

MP plans to use 'new backbench freedom' to tackle UK's social care crisis

 

Radical plans to make millions of workers aged 40 and over pay hundreds of pounds extra in tax every year to fund the growing number of people who will live to 100 have been put forward by ex-Deputy Prime Minister Damian Green.

 

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-54...l#ixzz586GQ35U6

 

**********************

 

I suspect articles like this are the only reason other controversial figures are still in the cabinet. Just imagine what Boris might come up with if relieved of the doctrine of Collective Responsibility!

 

The paragraphs you quote are a perfect example of today's journalism. They use three paragraphs to say exactly the same thing three times but with no detail whatsoever. That's not a dig at the Daily Mail; other news sources are just as bad.

 

Liam Fox: Jeremy Corbyn risked undermining UK security (based on an unsubstantiated claim from a Communist-era-spy) despite being a nobody who knew nothing at the time.

 

Liam Fox: sacked for actually undermining security having his bestie non-government business-chum Werrity (that wascally wabbit) sit in on key foreign meetings involving UK military secrets.

 

Kettle - frying pan - black arse......

pretending to a) care about poor people and b) not being racist, and then

 

c) using that private education so badly you can't avoid looking like a blatant racist (who has incidentally financial links to the main Russian bank who must not mind people who get rich on cancersticks as well)

‏

 

"@Otto_English

13h13 hours ago

 

Genuinely a bit shocked to see Jacob Rees-Mogg refer to the "less well off" in our "indigenous communities." He means "white" doesn't he - because if he'd meant "poorer people" in general he could have just said it."

 

a bit like not believing in abortion on moral grounds and then not giving a toss about people dying from lack of decent health care access, or pushing cancer-causing drugs.

It's Easter break so Business Insider has a handy check list:

 

May's government quietly slips out a long trail of inconvenient announcements as MPs head for recess.

 

Government accused of trying to bury bad news over the Easter break.

 

Damning reports on child refugees, and modern slavery are held back until MPs are leaving Parliament.

 

The government quietly announces a major U-turn on benefits.

 

New figures reveal social housing is vanishing under 'right to buy'.

It's Easter break so Business Insider has a handy check list:

 

May's government quietly slips out a long trail of inconvenient announcements as MPs head for recess.

 

Government accused of trying to bury bad news over the Easter break.

 

Damning reports on child refugees, and modern slavery are held back until MPs are leaving Parliament.

The government quietly announces a major U-turn on benefits.

New figures reveal social housing is vanishing under 'right to buy'.

 

OK, this practice is underhand, but hardly exclusive to the Tories - it's been going on for decades.

 

It has indeed being going on for decades (at least since Thatcher's time, probably longer) but that doesn't make it right. It is an affront to democracy that so many of these things are published at a time when they cannot be debated by Parliament.

 

They have also sneaked out something else likely to be opposed by the tabloids for the simple reason that it is quite sensible. They are trying to reduce the number pf prescriptions written for conditions such as dandruff and athlete's foot which will soon sort themselves out if left untreated.

You know how much I hate the inept and immoral Tories, but that last one IS sensible. They should also stop pharmacies overcharging the NHS, so take off Ibuprofen and cough medicines from prescriptions.

Reports are out that children have to put food in their pickets for later at school. Teachers are helping them with uniform and food costs and even Xmas presents.

 

This is atrocious.

 

Meanwhile the Tories are laughing and baying in parliament like an Etonian debate club. Reece Mogg has £250 million and the tax payers are paying is it £16 mil for his manor refurbishments? Johnson has his millions. One said the other week she was better than a journalist as she has more money. Mad May or course does nothing but offer up the NHS on a silver platter to Trump and laugh like a penguin in parliament at MPs complaining about poverty.

 

This inept and morally bankrupt and ruthless government of the Landed Gentry needs to go. Now.

Reports are out that children have to put food in their pickets for later at school. Teachers are helping them with uniform and food costs and even Xmas presents.

 

This is atrocious.

 

Quite so - picketers should be providing their own food... :P

 

Meanwhile the Tories are laughing and baying in parliament like an Etonian debate club. Reece Mogg has £250 million and the tax payers are paying is it £16 mil for his manor refurbishments? Johnson has his millions. One said the other week she was better than a journalist as she has more money. Mad May or course does nothing but offer up the NHS on a silver platter to Trump and laugh like a penguin in parliament at MPs complaining about poverty.

 

This inept and morally bankrupt and ruthless government of the Landed Gentry needs to go. Now.

 

Because that worked so well for France when they tried it? :rolleyes:

Edited April 2, 20187 yr by vidcapper