I suspect otherwise - it might be seen as half-hearted, like when councillors are caught making non-PC comments off the record, and come up with fake, rather than sincere apologies.

 

depends whether it's sincere. Saying "thoughts and prayers" for flood victims while sitting there saying let them sort out their own problems, or "thoughts and prayers" for 58 gunshooting victims while accepting tens of thousands dollars from the NRA IS insincere.

 

Being in favour of Brexit, for example, does not mean one is a heartless bstard, as such, I know many who aren't, and can easily feel and empathise for others. I also know many who don't give a toss about other people. Interestingly I personally know few (if any) Remainers who could fall into the "toss" category, though clearly there are politicians who do...

depends whether it's sincere. Saying "thoughts and prayers" for flood victims while sitting there saying let them sort out their own problems, or "thoughts and prayers" for 58 gunshooting victims while accepting tens of thousands dollars from the NRA IS insincere.

 

I wouldn't disagree with that.

 

Being in favour of Brexit, for example, does not mean one is a heartless bstard, as such, I know many who aren't, and can easily feel and empathise for others. I also know many who don't give a toss about other people. Interestingly I personally know few (if any) Remainers who could fall into the "toss" category, though clearly there are politicians who do...

 

But compassion for others has its limits though - should we be compassionate towards those who have caused us harm, or work against our own interests?

Despite Brexit...

 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/oc...oyers-and-staff

It isn't rhetoric. Look at the staffing crisis and funding crisis and funding gaps. Look at the closed centres. There are a lot of grapha out there showing it worsening under Hunt by A LOT.

Despite Brexit...

 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/oc...oyers-and-staff

 

being an attractive place to work isn't the same as people actually coming here to work to do low-paid long-hours jobs, though it IS nice to see that parts of the UK remain attractive pre-Brexit.

 

Compassion for others shouldn't depend on "only if you haven't hurt me" arguments because that tends to dehumanise people. I would apply that to brexit. I don't hate Brexit-Voters nor would I feel a lack of compassion towards them at any stage, even if they suffer due to brexit. I do reserve the right to say "I told you so" and then get on with dealing with the consequences without harping on about it.

 

Hopefully if it's a marvellous success, Brexiteers will also do the same without crowing.

The government have commissioned a total of 58 reports into the impact of leaving the EU on various sectors of the British economy. However, they have refused to publish them. Of course, it could be that they haven't published them because they are worried that we would get carried away on a wave of euphoria at the prospect of untold riches awaiting us after March 2019. On the other hand, it should be that the reports are overwhelmingly negative.

 

Today Labour introduced a motion in the Commons to force the government to publish the papers. They had the support of other opposition parties and some pro-EU Tories. The official government line was to refuse to turn up for the vote. The Leave campaign kept banging on about "taking back control". It is increasingly clear that they had no intention of giving that control to the House of Commons.

The government have commissioned a total of 58 reports into the impact of leaving the EU on various sectors of the British economy. However, they have refused to publish them. Of course, it could be that they haven't published them because they are worried that we would get carried away on a wave of euphoria at the prospect of untold riches awaiting us after March 2019. On the other hand, it should be that the reports are overwhelmingly negative.

 

Today Labour introduced a motion in the Commons to force the government to publish the papers. They had the support of other opposition parties and some pro-EU Tories. The official government line was to refuse to turn up for the vote. The Leave campaign kept banging on about "taking back control". It is increasingly clear that they had no intention of giving that control to the House of Commons.

 

Such apparent 'concealment' always makes situations worse than they would be with full disclosure.

 

As for the actual contents, it's unlikely that disclosure would change opinions in any significant way, given that economics was not a high priority for Leavers - it was far more important to Remainers, but to them it'd just be preaching to the converted anyway.

Such apparent 'concealment' always makes situations worse than they would be with full disclosure.

 

As for the actual contents, it's unlikely that disclosure would change opinions in any significant way, given that economics was not a high priority for Leavers - it was far more important to Remainers, but to them it'd just be preaching to the converted anyway.

 

Yes, you're right about disclosure, but government, local and otherwise, likes to hide facts that would be inconvenient to them. Anything that would support their position gets instantly published, publicised and surrounded in a halo of "see I/we told you I/we was/were right, aren't I/we marvellous" comments.

 

In a democracy we are entitled to have access to all facts, otherwise it's not true democracy - that's purely propaganda. Or "spin" as they prefer to call it these days....

Such apparent 'concealment' always makes situations worse than they would be with full disclosure.

 

As for the actual contents, it's unlikely that disclosure would change opinions in any significant way, given that economics was not a high priority for Leavers - it was far more important to Remainers, but to them it'd just be preaching to the converted anyway.

There is a point at which the economic costs of Brexit would hypothetically convince most Leavers that it was a bad idea, although it doesn't look like that will happen until after we've left.

There is a point at which the economic costs of Brexit would hypothetically convince most Leavers that it was a bad idea, although it doesn't look like that will happen until after we've left.

 

That leads to another speculative point...

 

If Brexit proved successful, who would still vote to rejoin the EU in another referendum, despite that?

 

 

The gov has lost a vote and will publish. Sort of.

 

Says Andrea Leadbelly in true Yes Minister style as re[ported by the BBC:

 

Earlier Commons Leader Ms Leadsom was asked when the studies would be released. She replied: "It is absolutely accepted that the motion passed by the House yesterday is binding and that the information will be forthcoming.

"But, as I think as has been made very clear, it is the case that it is difficult to balance the conflicting obligation to protect the public interest through not disclosing information that could harm the national interest and the public interest whilst at the same time ensuring that the resolution of the House passed yesterday is adhered to."

Here's the letter from Ted Heath that vidcapper couldn't see before because of the restricted access.

 

http://blogs.bodleian.ox.ac.uk/wp-content/uploads/sites/161/2013/01/1973Jan01-2-.jpg

That looks like we knew exactly what we were signing up to. Huh. :thinking: funny that.

That looks like we knew exactly what we were signing up to. Huh. :thinking: funny that.

 

Right - because everyone in the country read the Illustrated London News... :rolleyes:

You were too young to have read it.

 

Doesn't mean the info wasn't out there.

Right - because everyone in the country read the Illustrated London News... :rolleyes:

Don't you think a letter from the PM of the day might just have been reported in other publications as well as on radio and television news bulletins?

You were too young to have read it.

 

Doesn't mean the info wasn't out there.

 

But it was like small print in a contract, they put it there to cover their asses, but didn't expect anyone to actually read it.

 

Don't you think a letter from the PM of the day might just have been reported in other publications as well as on radio and television news bulletins?

 

A PM who I wouldn't trust near children, let alone to decide our economic future!

But it was like small print in a contract, they put it there to cover their asses, but didn't expect anyone to actually read it.

A PM who I wouldn't trust near children, let alone to decide our economic future!

 

No it wasn't. It was a sensible intelligent discussion on the future of Europe and The ailing UK. If you can't believe the evidence of your own eyes, people who were there (who weren't being swayed by blatant Russian-backed bullshit and Foreign-billionaire-owned-biased muckspreaders, but had actual discussions pros and cons) then it all starts to explain the recent unproven slanders about the man who was Prime Minister then. I'll be clear, I wasn't a fan of Edward Heath at the time, but compared to the current standards of politicians he was a positive Mensa candidate.....

 

Trying to rewrite history for current political gain, I think.....

 

 

No it wasn't. It was a sensible intelligent discussion on the future of Europe and The ailing UK. If you can't believe the evidence of your own eyes, people who were there (who weren't being swayed by blatant Russian-backed bullshit and Foreign-billionaire-owned-biased muckspreaders, but had actual discussions pros and cons) then it all starts to explain the recent unproven slanders about the man who was Prime Minister then. I'll be clear, I wasn't a fan of Edward Heath at the time, but compared to the current standards of politicians he was a positive Mensa candidate.....

 

This is just the same old problem with allegations of sexual abuse - the alleged abuser is in a position of power/influence so allegations against them won't be believed, or be covered up - or the victims are threatened into silence. Either way it's very had to prove anything decades later.

 

Trying to rewrite history for current political gain, I think.....

 

You overestimate my influence there. :mellow:

That leads to another speculative point...

 

If Brexit proved successful, who would still vote to rejoin the EU in another referendum, despite that?

Define successful.