Your ignorance is astounding. You cannot compare Catalonia to Nottinghamshire or Milton Keynes. Catalonia has their own language, culture, national anthem, etc. The EU are anti-democratic, they preach that the EU is about peace and promoting democratic values but this is just more lies from them. Thank God the UK is getting out of the fraudulent EU.

I can compare it to whatever I like, I'm not remotely ignorant, a case of the kettle calling the frying black arse there. The anti-southerner sentiment is strong Up North, Wales and Scotland have their own languages, and London is like another country compared to much of the UK. I don't have to agree with it, an I don't want to see the UK broken up, but that's the way it is.

 

I also don't believe in violence.

 

The point is in real life - if you break-up one region with a breakaway, a minority of the people arent happy and then they want to break up another small part, or rejoin a part, and so on and so on. That's how countries fragment and cease to be whole (which is what you claim you want in the case of the UK). There are always minorities, and always will be. Catalonia is rich, Spain isn't, so much. That will help the rich get richer and the poor get poorer, just like our terrible government is in the process of doing, 10 years on from a crisis that poor people still havent recovered from. Want proof? take a walk in any town in the evening and count how many young homeless people, non-druggy, non-alocoholic, there are on the streets. They are also on the streets of Catalonia (the rich area): just been there, just seen them.

 

 

I can compare it to whatever I like, I'm not remotely ignorant, a case of the kettle calling the frying black arse there. The anti-southerner sentiment is strong Up North, Wales and Scotland have their own languages, and London is like another country compared to much of the UK. I don't have to agree with it, an I don't want to see the UK broken up, but that's the way it is.

 

I also don't believe in violence.

 

The point is in real life - if you break-up one region with a breakaway, a minority of the people arent happy and then they want to break up another small part, or rejoin a part, and so on and so on. That's how countries fragment and cease to be whole (which is what you claim you want in the case of the UK). There are always minorities, and always will be. Catalonia is rich, Spain isn't, so much. That will help the rich get richer and the poor get poorer, just like our terrible government is in the process of doing, 10 years on from a crisis that poor people still havent recovered from. Want proof? take a walk in any town in the evening and count how many young homeless people, non-druggy, non-alocoholic, there are on the streets. They are also on the streets of Catalonia (the rich area): just been there, just seen them.

 

No, I don't want to see the UK break up however if the majority of people from Wales, Scotland, and Northern Ireland ever decided that they wanted to leave the UK, I would 100% support their right to make that decision. I respect democracy and the people's right to sovereignty, whereas you clearly don't. No surprise that you're an EU fanatic.

How do you explain the majority of Scottish Independence supporters being pro-EU :thinking:

How do you explain the majority of Scottish Independence supporters being pro-EU :thinking:

 

That's not what I've seen from some SNP supporters, they understand to be truly independent you have to leave the EU too. It's probably one explanation as to why the SNP did so badly in the recent UK general election because of their support for the EU.

Edited October 1, 20177 yr by PeaceMob

That's not what I've seen from some SNP supporters, they understand to be truly independent you have to leave the EU too. It's probably one explanation as to why the SNP did so badly in the recent UK general election because of their support for the EU.

Nice anecdotal evidence you've got there.

 

Like I said, the majority. I.e. more than half.

 

I also happen to have stepped foot in Scotland, which I doubt you have, so know exactly what I’m talking about and the stats on how the party I was a member of voted.

And what would you say if parts of the North East wanted to.join an independent Scotland? :thinking:

That's only half the act. The remainder is the granting of so-called Henry VIII powers that will allow our government to alter and 'adjust' those laws as they see fit without the appropriate parliamentary oversight.

 

Would that be the same laws that were shoehorned in originally with insufficient scrutiny?

 

 

THE EU IS NOT CONTROLLED BY THE BUREAUCRATS

 

No, but they do still have a powerful influence.

 

Probably going off-topic now, but it is odd that the Spanish government have taken this stance though. Surely this is just going to persuade more people to vote for independence and toughen the stance of those who were uncertain. Surely a better approach would have been to let the vote happen peacefully, and then declare a positive result to be void as it breaks the 1978 Spanish Constitution.

 

I was surprised to see that Catalonia was one of the biggest supporters of the '78 Constitution in the referendum to approve it

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_const...eferendum,_1978

 

... so what's changed in the last 40 years so that they now want out?

How do you explain the majority of Scottish Independence supporters being pro-EU :thinking:

 

That's always been a mystery to me, too. They can't be truly independent while still being in the EU, so I can only suppose it's an anti-English thing?

Would that be the same laws that were shoehorned in originally with insufficient scrutiny?

No, but they do still have a powerful influence.

The bureaucrats work according to instructions from other parts of the EU structure - a bit like civil servants here. The point is that they do not have the power to change the law despite the impression given by rags like the Express over the years.

The bureaucrats work according to instructions from other parts of the EU structure - a bit like civil servants here. The point is that they do not have the power to change the law despite the impression given by rags like the Express over the years.

 

But the unelected European Commission proposes most of the EU's legislation...

But the unelected European Commission proposes most of the EU's legislation...

You mean the commissioners appointed by elected governments?

 

Besides, the legislation still has to be passed by the elected European Parliament.

No, I don't want to see the UK break up however if the majority of people from Wales, Scotland, and Northern Ireland ever decided that they wanted to leave the UK, I would 100% support their right to make that decision. I respect democracy and the people's right to sovereignty, whereas you clearly don't. No surprise that you're an EU fanatic.

 

Not a fanatic about anything (except pop music and sci-fi), so keep your assumptions about me to yourself. If you can't make comments without making it personal then don't make any comments. That says much more about you than it does me, with regard to fanaticism.....

 

If you are keen to see Northern Ireland people break off the from the UK (I suppose you are old enough to recall the "troubles" that came from the minority partitioning off of a part of the country? Convenient memory?) then one can assume you are happy to see the resulting violence as NI becomes neither one thing nor the other?

 

So, explain carefully to me what is the difference between, say, Scotland wanting a vote of independance, and London or Cornwall wanting a vote on independance? Cornwall has it's own traditions and customs, and has a history of independance before foreigners took over the country now known as "England" - that'll be the Romans, the Danes, the French, and so on - and each made boundary lines. Using your logic, you are happy for anybody to have a vote on going Indie - or do you have an actual map handy as a reference point for which areas of the world are justified in having a vote and which ones aren't?

 

 

 

 

You mean the commissioners appointed by elected governments?

 

The key word there being 'appointed'

Should we vote for civil servants then too?

The key word there being 'appointed'

Yes, like UK ministers. some of them in the unelected House of Lords. Indeed, some of them get a seat in the HoL simply so that they can become a minister.

 

I note that you completely ignored the point about the elected European Parliament.

Yes, like UK ministers. some of them in the unelected House of Lords. Indeed, some of them get a seat in the HoL simply so that they can become a minister.

 

I note that you completely ignored the point about the elected European Parliament.

 

I didn't *ignore* it, I simply chose not to reply to it. ;)

Um so you ignored it.

 

Right.

 

I think it's high time you accept that you are woefully misinformed on this subject.

I think it's high time you accept that you are woefully misinformed on this subject.

 

And I think it's high time you, and most others here, should stop making unfounded assumptions about me.

 

The EU refuses to condemn Spanish police violence in Catalonia. :angry:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/oct/...olice-crackdown

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-49...ish-police.html

 

... yet most of you *still* insist this immoral organisation is something we should remain part of. :huh:

May and her government at westmonster have refused to condemn the violence, the Scottish Government have. Yet most people *still* insist this immoral organisation is something we should remain part of. :huh:

 

 

 

 

 

The UK government has refused to condemn the violence, as have most countries across Europe, but yes let's just pick out the one thing you ideologically oppose for criticism.