March 24, 20187 yr But what is the chance of him actually being *accepted* as the Republican candidate for the whole state - extremely low, I suspect. Ah well if he doesnt get into power this time that makes it fine that Nazis are on the rise in a way they havent been in the whole history of the USA. Nothing to be concerned about then.... Oh yes, also forgot the President is fine with the KKK and Vladimir Putin, silly me....
March 24, 20187 yr Ah well if he doesnt get into power this time that makes it fine that Nazis are on the rise in a way they havent been in the whole history of the USA. Rubbish - the KKK have been around for hundreds of years - they are Nazis in all but name. And since you posted this in reply to me, what else am I to assume, other than you are suggesting that I personally am happy at the rise? :o OTOH, if that wasn't what you meant, then please try to phrase your replies in ways that cannot be misinterpreted that way. You know perfectly well, as you've had me confirm it numerous times here, that I am as anti-Nazi as anyone else on this forum! Edited March 24, 20187 yr by vidcapper
March 24, 20187 yr Rubbish - the KKK have been around for hundreds of years - they are Nazis in all but name. And since you posted this in reply to me, what else am I to assume, other than you are suggesting that I personally am happy at the rise? :o OTOH, if that wasn't what you meant, then please try to phrase your replies in ways that cannot be misinterpreted that way. You know perfectly well, as you've had me confirm it numerous times here, that I am as anti-Nazi as anyone else on this forum! I am far more left wing and left wing is further removed from Nazi than right wing.
March 24, 20187 yr That’s not how you post mr “devils advocate” I do that *sometimes*, yes - but I try to post objectively, rather than emotionally - that's what gets mistaken for 'taking sides', or 'being uncaring'. Edited March 24, 20187 yr by vidcapper
March 24, 20187 yr I am far more left wing and left wing is further removed from Nazi than right wing. If you use a linear left/right scale, but not the horseshoe one. https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Horseshoe_theory
March 24, 20187 yr Rubbish - the KKK have been around for hundreds of years - they are Nazis in all but name. And since you posted this in reply to me, what else am I to assume, other than you are suggesting that I personally am happy at the rise? :o OTOH, if that wasn't what you meant, then please try to phrase your replies in ways that cannot be misinterpreted that way. You know perfectly well, as you've had me confirm it numerous times here, that I am as anti-Nazi as anyone else on this forum! Not quite sure how you interpreted sarcasm at your rather shoulder-shrugging attitude to an accusation if being a Nazi. For the record your opinions on a multitude of issues are firmly ingrained in my mind and I don't recall ever calling or insinuating you are a Nazi Altright or any other form of extremism. You do though like to infer that things others see as quite important as not being. Hence the sarcasm. The kkk haven't been elected on a platform of Nazism they generally sneak in on a redneck hate blacks pro slavery moaning about losing the civil war platform
March 25, 20187 yr Not quite sure how you interpreted sarcasm at your rather shoulder-shrugging attitude to an accusation if being a Nazi. For the record your opinions on a multitude of issues are firmly ingrained in my mind and I don't recall ever calling or insinuating you are a Nazi Altright or any other form of extremism. You do though like to infer that things others see as quite important as not being. Hence the sarcasm. It'd be a lot easier if there was a smiley for sarcasm - hard to believe their isn't one. :o As for relative importance - obviously none of us can really know how important a particular issue is to someone else, therefore it's always possible to give offence unintentionally by underestimating how important any given issue is to them. [i hope that makes sense?]
March 25, 20187 yr It'd be a lot easier if there was a smiley for sarcasm - hard to believe their isn't one. :o As for relative importance - obviously none of us can really know how important a particular issue is to someone else, therefore it's always possible to give offence unintentionally by underestimating how important any given issue is to them. [i hope that makes sense?] Yes, sometimes history shows what is or isnt important in the scale of things - but America's central belief is that is the Land of the Free. It's at its core. For 20,000 people in one local area to believe that one of the 2 main parties that have represented that ideal for almost 250 years thinks that being a Nazi in any way represents that ideal is a tectonic shift in self-image, and it comes after years of struggle of the poor and propaganda from the Republicans, Breitbart, Fox, the NRA and the current President, who all very much mutually-self-supporting w*n**rs who dont have a shred of sympathy for children murdered at a school and their classmates trying to get sensible legislation to help make sure they don't keep on getting murdered by lunatic gun-obsessed white male terrorists who think they are dying for the cause to have more and bigger guns. Just like the UK and Australia made sure it wouldnt keep on happening.
March 25, 20187 yr Yes, sometimes history shows what is or isnt important in the scale of things - but America's central belief is that is the Land of the Free. It's at its core. For 20,000 people in one local area to believe that one of the 2 main parties that have represented that ideal for almost 250 years thinks that being a Nazi in any way represents that ideal is a tectonic shift in self-image, and it comes after years of struggle of the poor and propaganda from the Republicans, Breitbart, Fox, the NRA and the current President, who all very much mutually-self-supporting w*n**rs who dont have a shred of sympathy for children murdered at a school and their classmates trying to get sensible legislation to help make sure they don't keep on getting murdered by lunatic gun-obsessed white male terrorists who think they are dying for the cause to have more and bigger guns. Just like the UK and Australia made sure it wouldnt keep on happening. Unfortunately, no matter what legislation gets passed, it cannot stop *all* lunatic attacks. :no: Edited March 25, 20187 yr by vidcapper
March 25, 20187 yr Unfortunately, no matter what legislation gets passed, it cannot stop *all* lunatic attacks. :no: We know, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't bother with any legislation. Surely any legislation that would make yet another school massacre even 10% less likely is worth considering.
March 25, 20187 yr We know, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't bother with any legislation. Surely any legislation that would make yet another school massacre even 10% less likely is worth considering. Of course.
March 25, 20187 yr THEN WHY ARE YOU STILL ARGUING WITH US ABOUT IT Jesus wept. How does making a statement of fact like : 'Unfortunately, no matter what legislation gets passed, it cannot stop *all* lunatic attacks.' count as arguing? :unsure: I refer you to my post of 3.15pm yesterday. BTW, I found this old article which I believe is still applicable : http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/820262.stm Edited March 25, 20187 yr by vidcapper
March 25, 20187 yr How does making a statement of fact like : 'Unfortunately, no matter what legislation gets passed, it cannot stop *all* lunatic attacks.' count as arguing? :unsure: I refer you to my post of 3.15pm yesterday. BTW, I found this old article which I believe is still applicable : http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/820262.stm For f***s sake. Guns kill people. Societies with gun control have less murder. The USA has more murders than all sane societies put together. That isn't because it has more nutters, it's because it has more guns. This is an incontrovertible fact. If gun control legislation saves a very minimally-likely of at least 10% of the 10 million who have been killed by guns in the last 50 years, over the next 50 years, then that's a million lives saved and millions more lives not scarred by the tragedy. Shoulder-shrugging that not everyone can be saved is just being negative. WE KNOW. There was a 17-year-old-girl throwing up while giving a speech about watching her classmates get murdered and a bullet-wound in her leg. Try praising her and her attempts and her friend attempts to make a difference instead of being eternally negative about people doing good.
March 26, 20187 yr For f***s sake. Guns kill people. Societies with gun control have less murder. The USA has more murders than all sane societies put together. That isn't because it has more nutters, it's because it has more guns. This is an incontrovertible fact. If gun control legislation saves a very minimally-likely of at least 10% of the 10 million who have been killed by guns in the last 50 years, over the next 50 years, then that's a million lives saved and millions more lives not scarred by the tragedy. Shoulder-shrugging that not everyone can be saved is just being negative. WE KNOW. There was a 17-year-old-girl throwing up while giving a speech about watching her classmates get murdered and a bullet-wound in her leg. Try praising her and her attempts and her friend attempts to make a difference instead of being eternally negative about people doing good. As always, I am trying to be objective, rather than negative - but sometimes even the best of intentions can backfire - Prohibition is surely the best example of that. I have never suggested that reducing the number of guns would be a bad idea - it is Americans you need to convince of that, not I. I corresponded for years with an American, and tried to put the very same arguments against gun ownership that you have been using, but to no avail - some Americans can be absolutely immovable where the 2nd Amendment is concerned.
March 26, 20187 yr As always, I am trying to be objective, rather than negative - but sometimes even the best of intentions can backfire - Prohibition is surely the best example of that. I have never suggested that reducing the number of guns would be a bad idea - it is Americans you need to convince of that, not I. I corresponded for years with an American, and tried to put the very same arguments against gun ownership that you have been using, but to no avail - some Americans can be absolutely immovable where the 2nd Amendment is concerned. You're not being objective, you're pointing out the bleeding obvious every time someone tries to change things for the better - but ponder on the fact that 78% of Americans DON'T own guns and they are pissed off at being manipulated and murdered by the 3% of nutters who own most of the guns. People can make a difference and NOTHING, absolutely NOTHING, is forever. There are always choices to make, those that are prepared to put their own well-being at risk for what is right have a constant fight against those who just sit on their arses saying "why bother tut". Apathy against Evil is what allows it to succeed and every propagandist knows that. PS I have American friends who DON'T support the NRA and the gun-culture. They exist and they are marching and they have the numbers to remove those politicians that have been bought by the NRA. There is nothing in the Constitution about having unlimited access to weapons of mass death, and this from a culture that has banned Kinder Eggs for being dangerous to children! Toys, ooh, no, semi-automatic murder-machines, oh yes.
March 26, 20187 yr You're not being objective, you're pointing out the bleeding obvious every time someone tries to change things for the better In this context, objective means impartial, since I obviously have no vested interest in US gun laws. - but ponder on the fact that 78% of Americans DON'T own guns and they are pissed off at being manipulated and murdered by the 3% of nutters who own most of the guns. Is this the URL you quote? https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/no...e-133m-firearms What about the other 19% - where do they fit in? Another relevent stat is the % of US households that have guns : https://www.statista.com/statistics/249740/...ning-a-firearm/ People can make a difference and NOTHING, absolutely NOTHING, is forever. There are always choices to make, those that are prepared to put their own well-being at risk for what is right have a constant fight against those who just sit on their arses saying "why bother tut". Apathy against Evil is what allows it to succeed and every propagandist knows that. But who do you consider is the bigger *evil* here - legitimate gun-owners, or criminals? PS I have American friends who DON'T support the NRA and the gun-culture. They exist and they are marching and they have the numbers to remove those politicians that have been bought by the NRA. But they aren't evenly distributed - the politicians sponsored by the NRA tend to be in the more conservative states, where liberals are in a distinct minority, and in no position to vote gun supporters out.
March 26, 20187 yr In this context, objective means impartial, since I obviously have no vested interest in US gun laws. Is this the URL you quote? https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/no...e-133m-firearms What about the other 19% - where do they fit in? Another relevent stat is the % of US households that have guns : https://www.statista.com/statistics/249740/...ning-a-firearm/ But who do you consider is the bigger *evil* here - legitimate gun-owners, or criminals? But they aren't evenly distributed - the politicians sponsored by the NRA tend to be in the more conservative states, where liberals are in a distinct minority, and in no position to vote gun supporters out. 1. You aren't impartial about anything because you ignore evidence and base opinions on faith. 2. Read the article or google. My statistic is correct. 3. Guns 4. NRA-paid-for crooks in power are being targeted by the movement wherever they are. Even gun-owning Americans and soldiers support the movement. We will see in November how your opinion pans out. Not long to wait.....
March 26, 20187 yr 1. You aren't impartial about anything because you ignore evidence and base opinions on faith. 2. Read the article or google. My statistic is correct. 3. Guns 4. NRA-paid-for crooks in power are being targeted by the movement wherever they are. Even gun-owning Americans and soldiers support the movement. We will see in November how your opinion pans out. Not long to wait..... 1. Did you not read my 'in this context' comment? 2. I *did* google - see https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/no...e-133m-firearms 3. You didn't answer what I asked! 4. Yes, we shall.
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