There is little significant left-wing press in the USA. There is liberal press, and factual press, and lying (right-wing) press run by billionaires looking to subvert democracy and convince people that facts are lies and vice versa.

 

Leaving aside the rest of for now - in America liberal *equals* socialist, but even more so than in the UK it is a taboo word, so people call themselves 'progressives', 'liberals', 'social justice warriors', 'antifa' or many other variants, rather than be honest.

 

At least Trump is more open about his character flaws.

Edited March 8, 20196 yr by vidcapper

Leaving aside the rest of for now - in America liberal *equals* socialist, but even more so than in the UK it is a taboo word, so people call themselves 'progressives', 'liberals', 'social justice warriors', 'antifa' or many other variants, rather than be honest.

 

At least Trump is more open about his character flaws.

 

No they don't. Saunders is as far left as they get - and he is moderate Labour in UK terms. There has never been a history of left-wing-ism in power in the USA it's been The Right-Wing Party and the Less-Right-Wing Party for most of it's history. Do some research.

 

Trump isn't open about his character flaws he refuses to make even his college results public having slagged Obama off mercilessly (an obviously smart man) because he's thick as pig-shit, and he isn't open about anything he is involved in. He denies and lies, same as he denies everything he does that is illegal and immoral, and always always always blames others, especially ethnic minority and women others. That's why there is an investigation into his activities. All of the accused close associates have been found guilty, most of them pleading guilty and co-operating. At the very least that means he is completely shit at character judgement and spotting the people he picks are crooks (ie by checking them out first!). You really don't like facts at all......

No they don't. Saunders is as far left as they get - and he is moderate Labour in UK terms. There has never been a history of left-wing-ism in power in the USA it's been The Right-Wing Party and the Less-Right-Wing Party for most of it's history. Do some research.

 

I was not referring to politicians, but to voters in general - I suggest you read more carefully next time. :mellow:

Edited March 8, 20196 yr by vidcapper

I was not referring to politicians, but to voters in general - I suggest you read more carefully next time. :mellow:

 

It still applies. The numbers of actual-left-wingers in the USA is low - it's ingrained into American culture, society & self-image to idolise individualism, self-achievement and free-enterprise, they often virtually worship the Constitution as a religion, and like a religion cherry-pick the bits they want to support their viewpoint (NRA gun-control) while ignoring the bits they don't like (equality). The USA grew as a frontier nation and still views itself that way, fighting the baddies - even when it becomes the baddie thanks to right-wing forces in it's own population - and witch-hunt communist accusations of anyone with socialist leanings kinda shows that to be the case (see Hollywood 50's).

 

 

It still applies. The numbers of actual-left-wingers in the USA is low - it's ingrained into American culture, society & self-image to idolise individualism, self-achievement and free-enterprise, they often virtually worship the Constitution as a religion, and like a religion cherry-pick the bits they want to support their viewpoint (NRA gun-control) while ignoring the bits they don't like (equality). The USA grew as a frontier nation and still views itself that way, fighting the baddies - even when it becomes the baddie thanks to right-wing forces in it's own population - and witch-hunt communist accusations of anyone with socialist leanings kinda shows that to be the case (see Hollywood 50's).

 

Low in % terms in the general population perhaps, but far higher amongst the student population, especially since Trump was elected - and with the support of the entertainment industry, they generate far more publicity than their numbers warrant. Perhaps this punching above their numbers was *why* middle-America's support for Trump was badly under-estimated?

Low in % terms in the general population perhaps, but far higher amongst the student population, especially since Trump was elected - and with the support of the entertainment industry, they generate far more publicity than their numbers warrant. Perhaps this punching above their numbers was *why* middle-America's support for Trump was badly under-estimated?

 

students have always been activists in percentages higher than the general population because they aren't busy struggling with mortgages & kids and have time to research information and talk to each other about stuff - that applies to all students in every country in all of history.

 

I don;t know what "entertainment industry" you watch, but I've seen nothing supporting any far-left causes coming out of Hollywood, ever. I've seen social commentary social-conscience thoughtful commentaries, and I've seen gung-ho shoot-em-up far-right kill-everyone gun-obsessed right-wing bullshit, but I've never seen let's all turn into Putin, I love Marx/Stalin/Cuba propaganda. Liberal & Right-wing, in other words.

 

People voted for Trump because they were pissed off with 10 years of hardship and blamed the party who had to deal with the problem created by the party who won, and because people always react against sitting politicians by throwing their toys out the pram.

 

PS The Democrats got more votes.

students have always been activists in percentages higher than the general population because they aren't busy struggling with mortgages & kids and have time to research information and talk to each other about stuff - that applies to all students in every country in all of history.

 

I don;t know what "entertainment industry" you watch, but I've seen nothing supporting any far-left causes coming out of Hollywood, ever. I've seen social commentary social-conscience thoughtful commentaries, and I've seen gung-ho shoot-em-up far-right kill-everyone gun-obsessed right-wing bullshit, but I've never seen let's all turn into Putin, I love Marx/Stalin/Cuba propaganda. Liberal & Right-wing, in other words.

 

People voted for Trump because they were pissed off with 10 years of hardship and blamed the party who had to deal with the problem created by the party who won, and because people always react against sitting politicians by throwing their toys out the pram.

 

PS The Democrats got more votes.

 

1. I see students as being more radical due to the 'someone else will pay' factor - but that's more or less why you said, isn't it... :P

 

2. Hollywood is full of what we might call 'champagne socialists' preaching progressive policies because they can afford to.

 

3. There is an iota of truth there

Edited March 9, 20196 yr by vidcapper

1. I see students as being more radical due to the 'someone else will pay' factor - but that's more or less why you said, isn't it... :P

 

2. Hollywood is full of what we might call 'champagne socialists' preaching progressive policies because they can afford to.

 

3. There is an iota of truth there

And you deny being a Tory? That's a typical Tory argument - the least well-off vote Labour because they want other people to pay for things; wealthy Labour voters do so because they can afford to. Maybe some people vote Labour because they support Labour policies.

And you deny being a Tory? That's a typical Tory argument - the least well-off vote Labour because they want other people to pay for things; wealthy Labour voters do so because they can afford to. Maybe some people vote Labour because they support Labour policies.

 

I have never voted Tory in my life.

 

I am socially conservative, but not economically.

Edited March 9, 20196 yr by vidcapper

1. I see students as being more radical due to the 'someone else will pay' factor - but that's more or less why you said, isn't it... :P

 

2. Hollywood is full of what we might call 'champagne socialists' preaching progressive policies because they can afford to.

 

3. There is an iota of truth there

 

1. Students pay for themselves, and don't generally go for policies designed to help themselves - that's the job of Tories.

 

2. They aren't Socialists, they are Socially-aware liberals for the most part begging for basic human rights policies that we enjoy in this country as a matter of course that are seen as not being left or right, but just and proper. Hollywood, BTW, is a perfect of example of "self-made, go-getters" who come from ordinary backgrounds, as opposed to politicians who tend to be spoilt-brat rich people with privileged upbringings who havent a clue about poor people. I would take someone who grew up poor, say Dolly Parton, who has re-invested her money into helping her community because they know what poor is, over someone like Donald Trump, who is a moral-vacuum, and just helps himself, because he grew up in selfish privileged isolated rich community.

 

Just saying.

1. Students pay for themselves, and don't generally go for policies designed to help themselves - that's the job of Tories.

 

2. They aren't Socialists, they are Socially-aware liberals for the most part begging for basic human rights policies that we enjoy in this country as a matter of course that are seen as not being left or right, but just and proper. Hollywood, BTW, is a perfect of example of "self-made, go-getters" who come from ordinary backgrounds, as opposed to politicians who tend to be spoilt-brat rich people with privileged upbringings who havent a clue about poor people. I would take someone who grew up poor, say Dolly Parton, who has re-invested her money into helping her community because they know what poor is, over someone like Donald Trump, who is a moral-vacuum, and just helps himself, because he grew up in selfish privileged isolated rich community.

 

Just saying.

 

1. They pay for themselves *eventually*, but as for voting for policies designed to help themselves, they can be as guilty of that as anyone else. Look how they voted in droves for Corbyn on unspecified promises of 'helping with student loans', on the assumption he meant writing some or all of the debt off. :rolleyes:

 

2. American students have far better than basic human rights policies already!

Edited March 10, 20196 yr by vidcapper

1. They pay for themselves *eventually*, but as for voting for policies designed to help themselves, they can be as guilty of that as anyone else. Look how they voted in droves for Corbyn on unspecified promises of 'helping with student loans', on the assumption he meant writing some or all of the debt off. :rolleyes:

That’s how taxation works. By the time we start work, we have all taken more out of the NHS than we have paid in. Most of us have had our state education paid for.

Middle America would probably describe it as 'resisting the tide of PC'. :teresa:

Why is it that anyone who trots out some standard stock phrase about political correctness is just hiding behind nicer wording that, when translated into normal english, means "i'm really angry that I can't be an unabashed racist and general bigot anymore"

 

Given that we're talking about the US here, students do pay their own way there and like everything in the US capitalism rules the roost so it's unaffordable beyond all comprehension. Student loans are provided by for-profit institutions and repayments begin 6 months after graduation at eye watering rates.

 

One of my best mates couldn't afford to move out of her parents place for 5 years after graduation because her student loan payments were equivalent to more than 50% of her income.

1. They pay for themselves *eventually*, but as for voting for policies designed to help themselves, they can be as guilty of that as anyone else. Look how they voted in droves for Corbyn on unspecified promises of 'helping with student loans', on the assumption he meant writing some or all of the debt off. :rolleyes:

 

2. American students have far better than basic human rights policies already!

 

1. Since you have diverted towards UK students in your comments, clearly, some of us believe that further education should be free not for selfish reasons but to allow poor smart people opportunities that are given to thick rich students, just because they are rich, and getting that important link and leg-up into the status quo privileged elite that you seem to hate so much. If you are not in favour of elites then you must logically be in favour of a system that works to bring non-elites into it and people with a wider perspective and broader experiences of life.

 

Sometimes you seem to just argue for the sake of it cos you keep taking mutually-opposing viewpoints.

 

2. That's because they are the more wealthy sections of society and they pay for everything that we get subsidised, like medical care, social care. Poor young people who don't have wealthy parents, who can afford health education, who get ill....die. If you are poor you die. Obama tried to change that, Trump is happier watching poor people die while he's busy getting "massages" at his Florida hotel for visiting Chinese "dignitaries" that may or not be helping deals to make his family richer. That's today's latest abuse of his position, BTW. The total is so vast and comes at such a furious pace (any one of which would have led to impeachment for Obama had he done anything like it) that the US public is immune to them (that's his aim) and it's hard to keep up. His kids are getting lined up for charges next (hint: they are likely to be found guilty, of using government business to make personal private deals via nepotistic opportunities).

Why is it that anyone who trots out some standard stock phrase about political correctness is just hiding behind nicer wording that, when translated into normal english, means "i'm really angry that I can't be an unabashed racist and general bigot anymore"

 

Why is it that there's an automatic assumption amongst Progressives that resistance to PC automatically makes someone an 'unabashed racist and general bigot'? :teresa:

 

IMO that actually applies to very few on the right - rather, they just loathe being told how to think, talk & act by people who act holier than thou, but in reality have no such credentials! In that respect, the election of Trump was telling the liberals to 'STFU and let us get on with our own lives!'

 

Something *good* that Trump has done! :blink:

 

https://www.dailywire.com/news/44956/trump-...h-emily-zanotti

Edited March 22, 20196 yr by vidcapper

Why is it that there's an automatic assumption amongst Progressives that resistance to PC automatically makes someone an 'unabashed racist and general bigot'? :teresa:

 

IMO that actually applies to very few on the right - rather, they just loathe being told how to think, talk & act by people who act holier than thou, but in reality have no such credentials! In that respect, the election of Trump was telling the liberals to 'STFU and let us get on with our own lives!'

 

1. It saves time :P

2. It's not acting. No-one's stopping anyone getting on with their own lives. They just point out when they tell other people what to do with their own lives eg allowing mass-murder weapons into the hands of nutters.

3. Trump's order. I don't have a problem with free speech and tolerance. I look forward to the extreme right becoming as tolerant as the extreme left when it comes to listening to people they don't agree with and accepting that is the definition of democracy. If free speech veers into hate speech and inciting violence then it's no longer democracy and is fair game for prosecution. People who claim free speech is hate speech also need a kick up the arse when it is clearly nothing of the sort, for wasting police time.

 

 

Something *good* that Trump has done! :blink:

 

https://www.dailywire.com/news/44956/trump-...h-emily-zanotti

Wtf even is that site?

 

And their free speech was never threatened. What he should have signed was “let 0.000001% of your student body act like entitled racists free from repercussions or we will cut funding for you because educated people see through my shite and don’t support my fascist puppet Russian state”

Wtf even is that site?

 

Not the Daily Mail - if I want this forum to read a post, I've learned better than to do that. ;)

 

And their free speech was never threatened. What he should have signed was “let 0.000001% of your student body act like entitled racists free from repercussions or we will cut funding for you because educated people see through my shite and don’t support my fascist puppet Russian state”

 

That's a bit of a mouthful! :P

 

Ii's probably more about stroppy socialists & anarchists threatening violence to stop right-wing speakers from appearing. Some of them seem to consider even moderate right wingers as 'fascist'... :rolleyes: