And yet German regions get more powers. Funny that.

 

No, as long as there is a shitty FPTP system and referendum that go the way just of a slight plurality without a 3/4 system, the union is unfair. Sorry.

 

And it would lose its UN security seat as it would no longer be relevant. Thanks to people like you.

 

 

My answer to the poll depends on how I am supposed to interpret the question.

 

If it is about how high a vote would have been required for me just to accept the result and stop arguing for us to remain in the EU, the answer is that there is no such figure. I believe we are better off in the EU. If even 90% of voters disagree, that won't make me change my mind.

 

OTOH, if it is about the vote share that would have left me feeling the government was right to go ahead and act, then 60% at least as well as a majority of the four nations. I would still have continued to argue for us to Remain, but at least there would have been some legitimacy.

 

A change to the US Constitution first has to be proposed by a two-thirds majority of both houses of Congress. It then has to be agreed by three-quarters of the states.

 

Many golf clubs and other organisations require a two-thirds majority to change their constitution. You will remember that one such club initially failed to admit women members despite a clear vote in favour, but one which fell a little short of a two-thirds majority. Allowing a majority of one to determine something as major as membership of the EU is an act of gross stupidity.

That loud noise you just heard was my sarcasm detector exploding. :P

 

If the long & acrimonious campaign last year didn't make them fully aware if that, I can't imagine what would!

At least we can change who governs us, if they f*ck up - we cannot alter the political direction of the EU'

You make post-Brexit UK sound like the USSR :rolleyes: No-one will be prevented from leaving or entering, it just won't be quite as easy.

 

Oh you are funny in your self-contradictions, they just never cease to come. :lol:

 

I think we've established the "long and acrimonious campaign" contained little of practical accuracy from one side to help people make up their minds, just blatant propaganda repeated ad nauseum. (Dont bother replying to me unless you can verify something factually that has actually come to pass or is likely to come to pass as part of the current negotiations as spoken by T.May, we all saw it and you just keep making the same claims)

 

We can change who governs us - presumably we can also change what we want as a country. Democracy, as opposed to selective "only democracy except when I don't want a result overturning". We all have the opportunity to vote in the EU, it's a democracy. Except when you don't like the result, apparently, in which case you want to sulk off and keep trying for a vote you do like. Sound like a familiar argument?

 

Anyone who wants to go and work in the EU will not be allowed to. They will have to apply and stand in line for someone to offer to employ them first, behind EU citizens who do have the right. Far more likely that it will prove worse for UK citizens wishing to work abroad than it will for EU citizens wanting to work in the UK - because we have a massive skills shortage and they don't. Cos the UK doesnt invest in skills. Or anything much.

 

By the way, being proudly unemployed, on benefits or retired, or independently wealthy, and immune (you deludely think) from the negative effects of Brexit - at the very least you will pay more for food and high-ticket items, and petrol - just shows utter selfishness towards those who will suffer economic hardships as a result of it. You know, those who are PAYING THE TAXES THAT SUPPORT THOSE WHO AREN'T.

 

Just food for thought.

 

 

 

 

By the way, being proudly unemployed, on benefits or retired, or independently wealthy, and immune (you deludely think) from the negative effects of Brexit - at the very least you will pay more for food and high-ticket items, and petrol - just shows utter selfishness towards those who will suffer economic hardships as a result of it. You know, those who are PAYING THE TAXES THAT SUPPORT THOSE WHO AREN'T.

 

Just food for thought.

 

It's hardly selfish to protect your country from the loss of political independence - which is what I regard is the ultimate aim of the EU.

It's hardly selfish to protect your country from the loss of political independence - which is what I regard is the ultimate aim of the EU.

The EU could only do that with the agreement of all member states. That isn't going to happen.

The EU could only do that with the agreement of all member states. That isn't going to happen.

 

Ah, but that's not how they go about it...

 

The usual means of a country losing its political independence is invasion, which I assume even the most ardent Remainers wouldn't want.

 

The EU is far more subtle than that, though - they take it away a small slice at a time, under the seemingly harmless name of 'ever closer union', and what's worse, our own government collaborated with them in doing so. Without Brexit, they would have continued to do so until it was too late.

 

Do you know the parable of 'The Frog In The Cooking Pan'?

 

The boiling frog is a parable describing a frog being slowly boiled alive. The premise is that if a frog is put suddenly into boiling water, it will jump out, but if the frog is put in tepid water which is then brought to a boil slowly, it will not perceive the danger and will be cooked to death. The story is often used as a metaphor for the inability or unwillingness of people to react to or be aware of threats that arise gradually.

Edited September 24, 20177 yr by vidcapper

Oh my god - the boiling frog 'argument' - the go-to grasping 'point' of the pseudo-intellectual.

 

Yeah, no. Just no.

Oh my god - the boiling frog 'argument' - the go-to grasping 'point' of the pseudo-intellectual.

 

Interesting that you concentrate on the metaphor, rather than disagreeing with my point about the EU's power-grabbing...

 

As there is nothing to discuss.

 

I don't give my time to conspiracy theories.

As there is nothing to discuss.

 

That's most unlike you. :P

 

Interesting that you concentrate on the metaphor, rather than disagreeing with my point about the EU's power-grabbing...

 

OK I will disagree. It's bullshit. Paranoid conspiracy and I note you didn't disagree that you are essentially acting selfishly by putting dystopian fiction ahead of real actual jobs and people being worse off.

 

That's how all dictators do it. Make enemies of democratic processes, then immigrants, then anyone who disagrees with them, then insist anyone who disagrees is unpatriotic, then take away rights one by one until you have a dictator state.

 

Happening in the USA right now, inly some are fighting back. Happening in the EU right now (the Far Right is the danger, not the democratic middle ground). Germany have some history in this regard (Huge fans: Donald Trump; Nigel Farage, Julian Assange)

That's how all dictators do it. Make enemies of democratic processes, then immigrants, then anyone who disagrees with them, then insist anyone who disagrees is unpatriotic, then take away rights one by one until you have a dictator state.

 

In case you misunderstood, the above is exactly the direction I believe the EU is heading in.

Interesting that you concentrate on the metaphor, rather than disagreeing with my point about the EU's power-grabbing...

Decisions in the EU have to be agreed by the member states and the elected European Parliament.

 

The UK government is in the process of giving itself unfettered power to amend or abolish thousands of laws at the stroke of a minister's pen.

 

Which is the undemocratic one?

In case you misunderstood, the above is exactly the direction I believe the EU is heading in.

 

Have you been following Mrs May's career and actions??

Decisions in the EU have to be agreed by the member states and the elected European Parliament.

 

The UK government is in the process of giving itself unfettered power to amend or abolish thousands of laws at the stroke of a minister's pen.

 

Which is the undemocratic one?

 

I'm not talking about individual laws, but of the general direction the EU is heading in. 'Ever Closer Union' is one of the EU's core beliefs.

 

As for those 'thousands of laws', many of them were foisted on us by the EU with minimal scrutiny by the HoC, so the ability to amend/abolish them seems only fitting. Besides, I regard a future Labour gov't as being far more likely to abuse that power than the current Tory one.

 

Have you been following Mrs May's career and actions??

 

I find her objectionable, so I try to avoid hearing about her if at all possible! :)

Edited September 25, 20177 yr by vidcapper

I'm not talking about individual laws, but of the general direction the EU is heading in. 'Ever Closer Union' is one of the EU's core beliefs.

 

As for those 'thousands of laws', many of them were foisted on us by the EU with minimal scrutiny by the HoC, so the ability to amend/abolish them seems only fitting. Besides, I regard a future Labour gov't as being far more likely to abuse that power than the current Tory one.

I find her objectionable, so I try to avoid hearing about her if at all possible! :)

They were not foisted on us by the EU. They were agreed by the member states, including the UK.

In case you misunderstood, the above is exactly the direction I believe the EU is heading in.

 

You choose to believe in nothing you can demonstrate in any way whatsoever (still waiting for those EU laws you want to get rid of). I never misunderstand what you type, cos you know I can read. Democracy and co-operation among 27 countries, and which REQUIRES agreement between ALL 27 countries is a universe away from a one-party intolerant state. That's more like the UK following Brexit, with our democratically-elected government doing it's best to avoid democratic processes using Brexit as an excuse, which is how dictatorship starts: changing the law to give you carte blanche and shutting out any opinion and dissenters.

 

 

Decisions in the EU have to be agreed by the member states and the elected European Parliament.

 

The UK government is in the process of giving itself unfettered power to amend or abolish thousands of laws at the stroke of a minister's pen.

 

Which is the undemocratic one?

 

What Simon said, sorry I've just basically repeated you...! :lol:

They were not foisted on us by the EU. They were agreed by the member states, including the UK.

 

Even if they were passed by QMV?

Even if they were passed by QMV?

The UK has opted out of more EU laws than any other member. Can you name a single law imposed on us that should have caused mass demonstrations?