and I doubt really that either of us would regard those as 'Metal' or 'Punk' as such...

 

this is a compilation album called 'Pretty Vacant: History Of Punk'

 

http://eil.com/images/gallery_50x50/382149.jpg

 

some of these i suppose you will class as new wave while some of these were what people think of punk in thew 1970s. however they all work well listed together and compared to the modern Americans if thats punk maybe the Sex Pistols will have to be rebranded under urchin-rock and listed here instead????

 

track listing

Disc One

1. Pretty Vacant-Sex Pistols [Denmark Street Demo]

2. Your Generation-Generation X

3. X Offender-Blondie

4. Bonzo Goes To Bitberg-The Ramones [Live]

5. Orgasm Addict-Buzzcocks

6. I'm Alive-999

7. Suspect Device-Stiff Little Fingers

8. No More Heroes-The Stranglers

9. Statue Of Liberty-XTC

10. Sound Of The Suburbs-The Members

11. Working For The Yankee Dollar-The Skids

12. In A Rut-The Ruts

13. Up Against The Wall-The Tom Robinson Band

14. Inside Out-The Stiffs

15. Last Night Another Soldier-Angelic Upstarts

16. The Greatest Cockney Rip Off-Cockney Rejects

17. Last Rockers-Vice Squad

18. This Perfect Day-The Saints

Disc Two

1. Peaches-The Stranglers

2. Into The Valley-Skids

3. Ever Fallen In Love (With Someone You Shouldn't 've)-Buzzcocks

4. Gotta Gettaway-Stiff Little Fingers

5. Wild Youth-Generation X

6. Something That I Said-The Ruts

7. Pet Semetary-The Ramones

8. Turning Japanese-The Vapors

9. 1 2 3-The Professionals

10. Emergency-999

11. C30 C60 C90 Go-Bow Wow Wow

12. Rich Kids-Rich Kids

13. Nice 'n' Sleazy-The Stranglers

14. Promises-Buzzcocks

15. Waiting For The Weekend-The Vapors

16. Making Plans For Nigel-XTC

with reference to the The Essential Q Quiz Book page 112 & 155:

 

some questions and answers to the Metal category:

 

1. what band did david coverdale front during the 1980s? A. Whitesnake

2. What was the name of motley crue's autobiography? A The Dirt

5. Whose first album was Eat em and smile? A. David Lee Roth

25. Which metaller was born Stanley Eisen? A Paul Stanleyo of Kiss

 

Now how many of these acts would be moved??? when they can be put under Metal and if any of these act appeared in the Metal area, were they moved by John???

 

the thing is the indie area and metal area have to be of equal standing and not just a personal fiefdom of ones self and own likes and dislikes. It has to be as wide as possible so its easy to find things. Obv its a fareness between the two area, so you say you are not gonna have Bon Jovi, well i guess there might be a few people who think this is still heavy metal, let it in, however if we are gonna go that way and use that criteria Ocean Colour Scene will have to come back to the britpop/indie section which was got rid of because if the metal area was gonna get rid of the too pop stuff/hair metal it was only fare that OCS the dadrock which is far too BBC R2 was gone to. Tho OCS is probs more

with reference to wiki

 

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/61/Kerranghim.jpg

 

Kerrang! is a British music magazine. The magazine's title is onomatopoeic and derives from the noise putatively made by playing a power chord on an electric guitar.[2]

 

Edited by Geoff Barton, Kerrang! began life in June 1981 initially as a one off supplement in the Sounds newspaper devoted to the burgeoning New Wave of British Heavy Metal (or NWOBHM for short) and the rise of other hard rock acts such as AC/DC, who appeared on Kerrang!’s first cover.

 

so Kerrang! is generally seen as a magazine aimed toward more of a metal demographic.

 

Issue 1156 has these acts named on its cover:

 

Rage against the machine, Paramore, HIM, AFI, The Used, The All-American Rejects, Enter Shikari, Machine Head (Live Poster Special), Fall Out Boy (Live Poster Special), FFAF, Trivium, Within Temptation, Green day, deftones, gojira, cancer bats plus you get a selection of stickers feat P Stump, FOB, Machine Head, and MCR's The Black Parade.

With Reference tp page 30 of Issue 1156 of Kerrang! Magazine may I call for evidence in this 'trial' the Download Festival line-up

 

DOWNLOAD FESTIVAL FRIDAY 8th JUNE - SUNDAY 10th JUNE - DONINGTON PARK

 

MY CHEMICAL ROMANCE (HEADLINERS)

VELVET REVOLVER

WOLFMOTHER

DRAGONFORCE

MEGADETH

HINDER

BUCKCHERRY

ZICO CHAIN

 

2nd Stage

KORN

ENTER SHIKARI

PARAMORE

PORCUPINE TREE

SAOSIN

FROM AUTUMN TO ASHES

TURBONEGRO

ANJ

 

3rd Stage

SUICIDAL TENDENCIES

HAYSEED DIXIE

YOURCODENAMEIS:MILO

JOB FOR A COWBOY

I WAS A CUB SCOUT

THIS ET AL

DRIVE BY ARGUMENT

 

SaturdaySunday

 

VELVET REVOLVER

WOLFMOTHER

DRAGONFORCE

MEGADETH

HINDER

BUCKCHERRY

ZICO CHAIN

 

 

KORN

ENTER SHIKARI

PARAMORE

PORCUPINE TREE

SAOSIN

FROM AUTUMN TO ASHES

TURBONEGRO

ANJ

 

 

SUICIDAL TENDENCIES

HAYSEED DIXIE

YOURCODENAMEIS:MILO

JOB FOR A COWBOY

I WAS A CUB SCOUT

THIS ET AL

DRIVE BY ARGUMENT

 

Saturday - Main Stage

 

LINKIN PARK (HEADLINERS)

MARILYN MANSON

SLAYER

MACHINE HEAD

BOWLING FOR SOUP

30 SECONDS TO MARS

AIDEN

SHADOWS FALL

HELLYEAH

TURISAS

 

2nd Stage

MÖTLEY CRÜE

SATELLITE PARTY

BIFFY CLYRO

HEAD AUTOMATICA

GALLOWS

ANATHEMA

BRING ME THE HORIZON

BLOODSIMPLE

 

3rd Stage

MY VITRIOL

NECRO

LEZ ZEPPELIN

BEYOND ALL REASON

 

Sunday 10th June

IRON MAIDEN (HEADLINERS)

EVANESCENCE

KILLSWITCH ENGAGE

STONE SOUR

LAMB OF GOD

MASTODON

PAPA ROACH

CHIMAIRA

REUBEN

PARIKRAMA

 

2nd Stage

BILLY TALENT

DREAM THEATER

DIMMU BORGIR

WITHIN TEMPTATION

NAPALM DEATH

ORANGE GOBLIN

DEVIL DRIVER

UNEARTH

CANCER BATS

3rd stage

REEL BIG FISH

BETWEEN THE TREES

KIDS IN GLASS HOUSES

HARDCORE SUPERSTAR

 

so the people who have designed this featival have designed it to appeal to a certain type of fan probs one who wouldnt go to Guilfest which features these acts:

 

SUPERGRASS

THE ORDINARY BOYS

RODRIGO Y GABRIELA

The Hold Steady

Thirteen Senses

SQUEEZE

MORCHEEBA

SANDI THOM

Crazy P

MADNESS

THE MAGIC NUMBERS

TOOTS AND THE MAYTALS

The Saw Doctors

Newton Faulkner

Richard Thompson

Ghosts

Cherryghost

Ross Copperman

Rory McLeod

Amy Macdonald

Damien Dempsey

Steve Morano

Sunny Sweeney

Simon Friend

Redlands Palomino Company

 

or Latitude which features these acts (see page 137 of Uncut for these details)

 

Confirmed Acts

 

DAMIEN RICE

WILCO

THE MAGIC NUMBERS

MIDLAKE

THE GOOD THE BAD

& THE QUEEN

CSS

CLAP YOUR HANDS

SAY YEAH

I'M FROM BARCELONA

ARCADE FIRE

GOTAN PROJECT

JARVIS COCKER

PATRICK WOLF

THE RAPTURE

THE NATIONAL

GOTAN PROJECT

ALBERT HAMMOND JR

RODRIGO Y GABRIELA

TINARIWEN

CAKE

THE HOLD STEADY

TWO GALLANTS

COLD WAR KIDS

BAT FOR LASHES

HERMAN DUNE

ANNUALS

THE RUSHES

AU REVOIR SIMONE

THE KISSAWAY TRAIL

THE HOOSIERS

PETE AND THE PIRATES

WILD BEASTS

SONICFLYER

STEPHANIE DOSEN

BOBBY COOK

PETER & THE WOLF

 

now obv there will be huge fest in the world which mix metal, dance, indie and Ocean Colour Scene but obv most are tailed to a certain demographic, tageting certain urban tribes and clients.

 

with reference back to Download we can see that the Trembling Blue Stars, I'm From Barcelona, Stephin Merritt, the Field Mice and Tilly and The Wall are all missing form the line-up which shouldnt be the case if MCR are headlining.

 

You make a good case Alex, unfortunately the case you are making is entirely based upon the Media and what some festival organisers and record company suits think Metal is... You actually talked to any fans of Metal....? I think that MCR are likely to be bottled off stage during their headlining set tbh mate, in much the same way as The Rasmus were at Reading a few years back...

 

Kerrang has no right to call itself a Metal mag anymore, it goes through the motions, but it sold its soul a long time ago, it's now just a generic Guitar Bands magazine...

 

Ah now Grimly...I'm sure you've protested in the past that MCR are not emo as they don't sound like the bands that started the emo movement. So, your argument about emo being an offshoot of alt.rock loses ground there ;)

You actually talked to any fans of Metal....?

 

Now, I can throw this back atcha. Indie / alt fans of a certain vintage (i.e. not those who proclaimed themselves indie fans on the back of liking Razorlight a bit and fancying Ricky Kaiser Chief) like myself are not keen to share our genre with the likes of The Kooks and The Killers, but bands like that I will grudgingly accept in the indie / alt section.

 

I don't doubt MCR will get bottled at Download - they were bottled at Reading last year - probably the best example of an indie / metal crossover festival and probably a feather in the cap of the argument that MCR are pop.

 

Out of interest, into which board would you put Gallows? Biffy Clyro?

 

 

MCR fit into what's currently branded around as "emo" along with other $h!t bands like Panic! At The Disco, Funeral For A Friend, Angels & Airwaves etc. As there has never been any clarity over which forum emo fits in both moderators are quite right to chuck it out of the forums as they're certainly not Punk or Metal but at the same stage they're certainly not Indie or Alternative Rock!!

but bands like that I will grudgingly accept in the indie / alt section.

 

Yeah, grudgingly, you said it yourself, you clearly aint too happy about it are you....? Same with me mate, the Indie Forum is a joke IMO, so why the fukk turn the Metal/Punk forum into a joke as well....? Sorry, but you're dead wrong on this one mate...

Sorry to invade this topic but where exactly would people put the likes of The Killers in the genre forums? If not Alt/Indie, then where? :unsure: Because the day they get moved to the pop forum will be the day i leave this forum for good <_<

You make a good case Alex, unfortunately the case you are making is entirely based upon the Media and what some festival organisers and record company suits think Metal is...

 

But the media is the thing that influences the majority of people and what informs the ideas in the mindsets of the consumers. Its why some bands get the big hits and the credit and why others not to disimilar to those dont, it gives the breaks and the machine gives the airplay that keeps the advertisers happy. Its why B&S and Timbaland have had #1s with records worthy of #28.

 

and as a site thats mostly focuses on more commercial aspects of music think we have to respect the mejja's brainwashing and reach for the sake of not narrowcasting to about 3 people.

Sorry to invade this topic but where exactly would people put the likes of The Killers in the genre forums? If not Alt/Indie, then where? :unsure: Because the day they get moved to the pop forum will be the day i leave this forum for good <_<

Threads about The Killers have NO place in this Indie forum! :angry:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

They have their own forum! -_-

Out of interest, into which board would you put Gallows? Biffy Clyro?

 

and where would John Lydon go (Retro is not an option)?

 

http://www.haro-online.com/stuff/rulesat2.jpg

http://www.lovefilm.com/lovefilm/images/products/6/15286-large.jpg

 

for all you watching this last night and wanted Rise to go on further here it is!!

 

Threads about The Killers have NO place in this Indie forum! :angry:

They have their own forum! -_-

 

True :lol: But i saw that used as an example and replied without thinking ^_^

But the media is the thing that influences the majority of people and what informs the ideas in the mindsets of the consumers. Its why some bands get the big hits and the credit and why others not to disimilar to those dont, it gives the breaks and the machine gives the airplay that keeps the advertisers happy. Its why B&S and Timbaland have had #1s with records worthy of #28.

 

and as a site thats mostly focuses on more commercial aspects of music think we have to respect the mejja's brainwashing and reach for the sake of not narrowcasting to about 3 people.

 

Erm, I dont have to respect damn all mate, especially not the Music Press who are just a bunch of Industry whores.... The Metal forum should be a place for the less mainstream and more underground stuff, simple as.... Cant we have ONE poxy section that isn't about just going along with what's commercial.....

Erm, I dont have to respect damn all mate, especially not the Music Press who are just a bunch of Industry whores....

 

yeah man i know that you wouldnt give a flying feck about the press, but you gotta think about everybody else who are heading towards that way. and in anycase if someone is intersted in MCR you can steer them and guide them to 'better' stuff.

 

The Metal forum should be a place for the less mainstream and more underground stuff, simple as.... Cant we have ONE poxy section that isn't about just going along with what's commercial.....

 

but if the metal area is a place for less mainstream and more underground stuff so should the indie and alternative area. its that 'fairness' that i'm trying to get across. thats why we need that genreal section man

This whole issue needs to be looked at as bands are being thrown left right and centre by conflicting opinions on what Rock/Indie/Heavy Rock/Pop etc are.

 

Everyone has an opinion, it seems.

This whole issue needs to be looked at as bands are being thrown left right and centre by conflicting opinions on what Rock/Indie/Heavy Rock/Pop etc are.

 

thats why it should either be both targeted at a small demographic or opened up to the wides target audience as possible. however both sides have to have equal criteria

I don't believe I'm dead wrong on this at all. My opinion remains.

 

The word ALTERNATIVE should be noted here.

 

ALTERNATIVE

 

Not Radio 1

 

INDEPENDENT

 

Not what every other f***er listens to.

 

ROCK

 

Not roll over

I don't believe I'm dead wrong on this at all. My opinion remains.

 

The word ALTERNATIVE should be noted here.

 

ALTERNATIVE

 

Not Radio 1

 

INDEPENDENT

 

Not what every other f***er listens to.

 

ROCK

 

Not roll over

 

I don't disagree with that at all... Which is why I find it perplexing that you seem to want the Metal/Punk Forum to be as full of the same sort of mainstream bollocks for 12-year olds you're objecting to in Indie/Alternative....

 

Indie/Alternative Forum IS a joke

Dance Forum IS a joke

Metal/Punk IS being kept pure and within the actual genre conventions

 

Well, perhaps the answer is to rename the Indie / Alt Rock board.

I don't believe I'm dead wrong on this at all. My opinion remains.

 

The word ALTERNATIVE should be noted here.

 

ALTERNATIVE

 

Not Radio 1

 

INDEPENDENT

 

Not what every other f***er listens to.

 

ROCK

 

Not roll over

 

also may i make note of this thread in the pop section:

 

http://www.buzzjack.com/forums/index.php?s...p;#entry1042340

 

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/a2/GoodHammerandTongsalbum.jpg

 

it is about a band called Garbage, a post-grunge alt-rock group with a side helping of electronica. It features Shirley Manson of Goodbye Mr Mackenzie (not Billy however :lol: ) and Angelfidh fame and a certain Butch Vig, who first became famous in the music business in 1991 when he produced The Smashing Pumpkins' Gish and Siamese Dream as well as an album a couple of people might have heard of on here called Nevermind by this band called Nirvana. However they were not the ones everybody knows they were not the ones who did Rainbow Chaser in the 60s. They were this American band, so probs not that important :lol: On the other hand Goodbye Mr Mackenzie's 'Big' John Duncan was a member of The Exploited and Blood Uncles and performed as a guitarist at a number of this American grunge band Nirvana's later gigs.

 

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/d9/Garbage-garbage.jpg

 

now the reason Garbage is located in the pop section might be down to pure sexism and the thought that if its sung by a woman its a pop record full stop. However if Garbage are in the pop section and with that link to grunge and punk (see book babylon's burning below or in borders!!!) surely MCR should go join them in there???

 

if Garbage comes and is repositioned the indie and alternative section and if the record does sound overly 'pop' surely you could tolerate MCR in the metal area (which is where the poster who posted the thread in the first place identified where it should go???)

 

http://bookshop.blackwell.co.uk/images/jackets/m/18/1841958794.jpg

I don't believe I'm dead wrong on this at all. My opinion remains.

 

The word ALTERNATIVE should be noted here.

 

ALTERNATIVE

 

Not Radio 1

 

INDEPENDENT

 

Not what every other f***er listens to.

 

ROCK

 

Not roll over

 

I don't disagree with that at all... Which is why I find it perplexing that you seem to want the Metal/Punk Forum to be as full of the same sort of mainstream bollocks for 12-year olds you're objecting to in Indie/Alternative....

 

well the case that i am stating is that it seems that because to want to cleanse all the trash and make it pure from the metal area it seems that you can just fuck it off onto the indie section. but the point is if the metal area has this kind of benefit of that kind of focus surely the indie section should have the same limits. On the other hand i'm sure the main owners of the site want a busy level of traffic so its not just 3 fans using the area and so for that i think you could tollerate emo stuff as you dont need to click on it (unless you want to criticise it seeing as this is in fact an entertainment discussion site and not the church of the ways)

 

NOTE: btmw :lol: Mikey Way made a two page news feature in K! this week, no MCR records made the top 50 indie classics in the NME.

 

Indie/Alternative Forum IS a joke

Dance Forum IS a joke

Metal/Punk IS being kept pure and within the actual genre conventions

 

Obv as forum areas are put in control of people without a firm guideplan of whats what obv most is down to personal taste. But really it shouldnt be down to personal taste it should be more of a customer service role there just to oversee the area, so if people think MCR should go in here as they have got that mindset from K! so be it!!!. Its only a guide of finding things easily for fans, and those cliants are the people mods should be there for. remember moderate is an adj 1. not extreme 2. self-restrained etc etc so i suppose if people are being moderators they should do it in moderation, not stamp there ideas all over the place. you are not getting paid for being here so why make a big fuss for the sake of a couple of bands some real metal dudes might not think as 'pure' (and this goes for both sides both forums both indie and metal)

 

Also i'm trying to direct this criticism at the moderation styles of people in general not just at particular indie or metal mods. Obv cliques are gonna develop (as they did on cc) but why make it so personal it should just be about the music first and foremost.

 

Also if people think Cascada have as much right as the KLF, the Shamen and Scooter in the dance area let it be. You have the right to say its rubbish, you have the right to say its a joke and the pro Cascada have the right to reply and state why they its the best music in the world without ending the thread turning into the kind of discussion like (ref: Charlie Brooker Supposing article and in no way meant to insult anybody relativly annon poster)

 

Poster 1

"I think Cascada are great they are the best band in the world"

 

Poster 2

"Well Cascada are crap, You've got shit for brains and a small dick, I am the god of hell and fire and my dick is so large that there's a monument to it in Japan yadda yadda yadda"

 

but back to the metal discussion other offshouts of coolclarity there are dedicated 'emo and punk forums' so obv people think these go together :down they have got the idea that they are the same kinda thing.

 

Indie/Alternative Forum IS a joke

Dance Forum IS a joke

Metal/Punk IS being kept pure and within the actual genre conventions

 

and so should indie and alternative.

 

on a scale of 1 to 30 with all the punk and metal genres and acts covered metal can probably be presently like this in range (in black)

 

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30

 

while the scope of indie with a range that goes from The Jam, Tricky, Portishead, I'm From Barcelona to stuff like MCR it probs end up like this:

 

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30

 

I know its only a rough representation, I am not Dave Gorman!!!! :lol:

 

each site has to be equal its only fair for the indie and alternative section to be pure as well. Obv on the other hand with MCR in metal we (the indie kids) would probs have to tollerate OCS and this lot as well ***.

 

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/91/Ellogo-7-8-06.JPG

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/51/0elprespromo.JPG

 

however this would go to retro obv

 

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/a0/Gun0141.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/a7/Takingontheworld.jpg

 

*** note: please do not get into an ethnicly cleansing debate because of the fan 'Adolf' thank you

 

Well, perhaps the answer is to rename the Indie / Alt Rock board.

 

nah man!! should just be indie and alternative, just in case the indie record is a twee pop record, something by the Beastie Boys or something slightly Electronic (obv Goldfrapp could go here as well as alt.dance)?

 

btw where would Huey go now??? Reality TV section??? :lol:

 

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/2e/FLC-ComeFindYourself.jpg