It's deeply concerning that Labour isn't storming ahead in the polls when the government is an absolute shambles

 

A testament to how much people dislike Corbyn, sadly.

Not really he's lifted labour from 23% before the last election to near 40% labours hghest position since pre 2005 or before.

 

You have to understand that uk politics has changed post Brexit referendum and the country has changed - labour is at 40% on a left wing platform as well.

Um it basically does and you know it. The landed gentry are done.

 

NO IT DOESN'T!

 

The ousting of a party leader does not precipitate a general election - only the gov'ts defeat in a 'no confidence' vote can cause that.

 

The best outcome is really that A50 can be withdrawn with the agreement of all or a majority of the European Council I think. It provides an escape route without undermining the European Project.

 

But that still can't wipe out the referendum result...

 

Yeh any GE at this stage would be the tories to lose as they would be able to label labour as wreckers of the deal etc etc.

 

Amongst many other easy targets. :)

 

Not really he's lifted labour from 23% before the last election to near 40% labours hghest position since pre 2005 or before.

 

You have to understand that uk politics has changed post Brexit referendum and the country has changed - labour is at 40% on a left wing platform as well.

 

But that 40% seems to be a glass ceiling that they simply cannot seem to break through - and without doing so, they won't win a majority.

Yeh any GE at this stage would be the tories to lose as they would be able to label labour as wreckers of the deal etc etc.

 

Wrong. They are despised and FINISHED. NO ONE LIKES THE DEAL. NO. ONE.

 

DEEPLY CONCERNING?! THIS IS AS HIGH AS LABOUR HAS EEEVER BEEN. Tories are buoyed by the one party state media putting out bandwagon fake polls, remember their EGREGIOUS ONES last time claiming 400 seat majorities etc?, and by Brexot and the racist Brexit UKIPers. That is all. They were 2000 votes away from winning thr last election. Tories are DONE. AND THAT IS WITH THE WHOLE POWER OF THEBESTABLISHMENT AND BBC, PAPERS, ETC ATTACKING THE OPPOSITION AS IF IT WERE NORTH KOREA!!

 

Vidcapper, what result? Loads of old people died, let's be honest. No supermajority. Only two nations. No youth vote. The result SHOULD BE IGNORED.

Wrong. They are despised and FINISHED. NO ONE LIKES THE DEAL. NO. ONE.

 

DEEPLY CONCERNING?! THIS IS AS HIGH AS LABOUR HAS EEEVER BEEN. Tories are buoyed by the one party state media putting out bandwagon fake polls, remember their EGREGIOUS ONES last time claiming 400 seat majorities etc?, and by Brexot and the racist Brexit UKIPers. That is all. They were 2000 votes away from winning thr last election. Tories are DONE. AND THAT IS WITH THE WHOLE POWER OF THEBESTABLISHMENT AND BBC, PAPERS, ETC ATTACKING THE OPPOSITION AS IF IT WERE NORTH KOREA!!

 

Vidcapper, what result? Loads of old people died, let's be honest. No supermajority. Only two nations. No youth vote. The result SHOULD BE IGNORED.

 

Are you SERIOUS? It's OK to ignore democracy when you don't like the result?!

BREXIT IS NOT DEMOCRATIC. IT IS A COLONIAL FAR RIGHT COUP.

Are you SERIOUS? It's OK to ignore democracy when you don't like the result?!

You can repeat this as many times as you like. After all, it is about the only argument Quitters have left. Even so, no matter how often you repeat it, the fact remains that it was an advisory vote in which the side that won a narrow victory cheated. Ploughing ahead with something, acknowledged by the government to be damaging to the economy, in these circumstances is a far bigger affront to democracy.

Oh, Tories win in 2010. Democracy finished. 37% wanted them, so THE END.

NO IT DOESN'T!

 

The ousting of a party leader does not precipitate a general election - only the gov'ts defeat in a 'no confidence' vote can cause that.

But that still can't wipe out the referendum result...

Amongst many other easy targets. :)

But that 40% seems to be a glass ceiling that they simply cannot seem to break through - and without doing so, they won't win a majority.

 

But labour and the tories have won many elections post 1987 with less than 36% of the poll.

But labour and the tories have won many elections post 1987 with less than 36% of the poll.

 

But that was when we had a strong 3rd party to siphon off some of their votes - we do not have that ATM...

 

Also, I dispute your claim of 'many' : only the 2005 GE falls into that category, since the Tories prevailed in 2010 with 36.1%, but no overall majority.

Oh, Tories win in 2010. Democracy finished. 37% wanted them, so THE END.

 

Oh really? So you'd have no problem with a Labour gov't elected with less than 40% vote share, then? :rolleyes:

The more I read about this democracy argument, the more convinced I am we should implement meritocracy.

 

The serious part of that statement reads kill direct democracy dead and have no more referendums once this mess is sorted. PR into STV, create an emphasis on experts in scientific and other fields in parliament, stop finicking about this thrice damned filibusterish issue that should have never made it this far in a world where borders increasingly mean less and focus on our world surviving and what to do with our demanding population stacked up against that. This whole issue could not have come at a worse time.

 

(and a labour government elected with less than 40% would be a dream, they might have to do some actual cross-party cooperation then, you know, make as many votes as possible have a voice, to move away from 2-party and towards a European style multi-party coalition, because lord knows the Tories have and will never do so without scapegoating them)

(and a labour government elected with less than 40% would be a dream, they might have to do some actual cross-party cooperation then, you know, make as many votes as possible have a voice, to move away from 2-party and towards a European style multi-party coalition, because lord knows the Tories have and will never do so without scapegoating them)

 

You make a good point - if they had to ally with the SNP or LD's, it *would* keep their worst excesses in check.

You make a good point - if they had to ally with the SNP or LD's, it *would* keep their worst excesses in check.

 

Wat?

 

The Tories have FAAAAR WORSE "EXCESSES". They are an evil partt.

There won't be a general election, the Tories aren't that stupid.

 

The referendum result was increasingly obviously flawed by foreign (probably Russian) backed money (see American law enforcement evidence and ongoing investigation) and also Russian bots and associated now-bankrupt company involvement on the internet plugging even more lies and the posh rich politicians who stand to make even more shitloads of cash than they did after the result while poor people, those who fell for the lies because they thought they had nothing to lose, will do terribly out of Brexit. None of the liars who made promises have stuck by their own promises and statements, and they have mostly bailed out of the process.

 

Further arguments are fruitless. We face reality right now. Accept the deal which will make us poorer, or have a vote to test whether people agree that what was promised has been delivered, and if not we stay in the EU if they will have us (they have made noises that they will). Labour are at long last accepting publicly that is is the only alternative.

 

Nothing else has any basis for support in Parliament, and there is no likelihood of the EU agreeing anything other than an extension, bar very minor PR tinkering, to sort ourselves out once and for all what it is we want as a nation: Remain, accept the deal, or No Deal (which parliament won't allow because it would be economically disastrous and risks civil unrest).

 

If we accept the deal it means years of Brexit trade negotiations, and years of trade negotiations with the rest of the world, all at once, with ability to negotiate dependant on EU agreements.

Brexiters are becoming increasingly quiet or increasingly ridiculous. It is so clear they have lost. If we lived in a true democracy, this would neeever have happened in the first place. I blame Cameron and Miliband for bringing us this far right coup.

It has been increasingly clear that while the Brexiteers are generally united around the idea of leaving the EU, they are still massively divided on the way to approach it. You'd think that having argued for this all of their political lives (in some cases since we actually joined with Denmark and Ireland in 1973) they'd have some sort of strong argument or coherent plan...

 

Meanwhile, Theresa May has accepted an invitation for a debate on the UK-EU Withdrawal Agreement to be televised on BBC 1 at 8pm on Sunday 9 December. No word yet from the Labour Party ...

Labour wants ITV. Mad May wants her chums at the BBc to bung her pre agreed questions, grill Labour, and wants a panel of experts to back her up :lol: What a spineless slug. Labour will only agree to an ITV debate, away from the state media channel.

Labour wants ITV. Mad May wants her chums at the BBc to bung her pre agreed questions, grill Labour, and wants a panel of experts to back her up :lol: Want a spineless slug. Labour will only agree to an ITV debate, away from the state media channel.

 

Yes, Corbyn wants to watch Harry Redknapp in the jungle. Got to get his priorities right. (Apparently nobody in the UK has access to a TV recorder, whichever channel it goes on)

 

Both May & Corbyn semi-campaigned for Remain, both support us leaving, just disagreeing on the terms of how to leave, and nobody else in the country who voted either way or has an alternative opinion is invited along. I could save everybody an hour now:

 

May: It's the only deal on offer, there isn't going to be a general election or time for an alternative, and it delivers what people voted for. Tell your MP's to do as I say or there will be chaos!!!!!

 

Corbyn: This rubbish deal will leave us tied to the EU and ruin our economy. Vote For Me!!!! I Can save us all!!!! Not quite sure how, but trust me, I'm a politician and if we had issued article 50 right away like I said we'd have this all sorted out by now.

 

Public: well, that was very helpful, wasn't it.

 

 

Funny how May wants a debate now but never before the last election!!