Electing someone who had opposed EU membership for most of his career as leader just before a referendum on the subject was a spectacularly stupid idea. It was made to look an even worse idea when that leader then tried to make a virtue of the fact that he had not changed his mind one iota on any other subject in over 30 years as an MP.

He stood as a remainer in the referendum even though he has suspicions of the Eu and has his whole career. Do you know that Labour HQ and the people who run the party did exactly the same throughout his whole time as leader. They barely lifted a finger during the election campaigns and put their effort into safe seats only. They also said some of the most awful things to Him and any of his supporters from the very first PLP meeting in Sept 2015!

 

The neolibs despise anyone who dares upset their gravy train!

Electing someone who had opposed EU membership for most of his career as leader just before a referendum on the subject was a spectacularly stupid idea. It was made to look an even worse idea when that leader then tried to make a virtue of the fact that he had not changed his mind one iota on any other subject in over 30 years as an MP.

 

What was he ever wrong about in hindsight?

What was he ever wrong about in hindsight?

There's a clue in my post.

He stood as a remainer in the referendum even though he has suspicions of the Eu and has his whole career. Do you know that Labour HQ and the people who run the party did exactly the same throughout his whole time as leader. They barely lifted a finger during the election campaigns and put their effort into safe seats only. They also said some of the most awful things to Him and any of his supporters from the very first PLP meeting in Sept 2015!

 

He didn't stand as a Remainer in the referendum, he did absolutely nothing. That's the point of Corbyn, he is not bigger than the Party. Whatever his own personal viewpoint (which he of course is entitled to) he should have been in the frontline towing the Party line. Not sitting on the fence throughout the whole time.

He didn't stand as a Remainer in the referendum, he did absolutely nothing. That's the point of Corbyn, he is not bigger than the Party. Whatever his own personal viewpoint (which he of course is entitled to) he should have been in the frontline towing the Party line. Not sitting on the fence throughout the whole time.

 

He has always been a man of his principles.

There's a clue in my post.

 

Not really you don’t agree with his view on it doesn’t mean he’s wrong.

 

What about the many other issues - apartheid, NI, the economy, Iraq!

He didn't stand as a Remainer in the referendum, he did absolutely nothing. That's the point of Corbyn, he is not bigger than the Party. Whatever his own personal viewpoint (which he of course is entitled to) he should have been in the frontline towing the Party line. Not sitting on the fence throughout the whole time.

 

He did though check out the speeches he made in the campaign, maybe not enough for you or the baying remainer media but he did and as I said above he was hounded and the PLP and staffers did the complete opposite on all the other issues when he was leader!

Edited April 19, 20214 yr by steve201

He only lost the Red Wall - despite the constant media haranguing - when the centrists forced him to take a remain position. Aaand then Blojo and Cummings made it into a Brexshit election.

He has always been a man of his principles.

 

Yes, which is all very noble when you are a backbencher but not when you're the Leader of the Opposition.

 

He only lost the Red Wall - despite the constant media haranguing - when the centrists forced him to take a remain position. Aaand then Blojo and Cummings made it into a Brexshit election.

 

The Red Wall has slowly been chipped away at for years, it all began to rear its head with the 2015 election under Milliband and things only got worse. Corbyn did not have to agree to an election, the wise move would have been to hold off, but he walked straight in to a trap. Yes, totally a large element of people (myself included) misjudged the wider electorate in terms of a 2nd Referendum. I'd say the wider move on this part was the inability of Labour, Lib Dems and Greens to work together in certain seats to at least attempt to counterbalance the Tories and Brexit Party. That is a failing of the Corbyn for being unable and unwilling to work with other parties to stop the Tories.

He got forced into entering that trap thanks to The Giant Ego in charge of the Lib Dems. The SNP wanted one for their independence mandate to avoid Brexshit. It was all on the Lib Dems to stop it from happening. Labour could NOT be the only hold out, hence the trap.

He did though check out the speeches he made in the campaign, maybe not enough for you or the baying remainer media but he did and as I said above he was hounded and the PLP and staffers did the complete opposite on all the other issues when he was leader!

 

Great speeches on the campaign to his followers and fans. I'd expect that from most people. Where was he during all the TV debates? It took him way too long to decide what to do. He did not engage enough with people, at least not to the level the Leader of the Opposition should be doing.

Yes, which is all very noble when you are a backbencher but not when you're the Leader of the Opposition.

The Red Wall has slowly been chipped away at for years, it all began to rear its head with the 2015 election under Milliband and things only got worse. Corbyn did not have to agree to an election, the wise move would have been to hold off, but he walked straight in to a trap. Yes, totally a large element of people (myself included) misjudged the wider electorate in terms of a 2nd Referendum. I'd say the wider move on this part was the inability of Labour, Lib Dems and Greens to work together in certain seats to at least attempt to counterbalance the Tories and Brexit Party. That is a failing of the Corbyn for being unable and unwilling to work with other parties to stop the Tories.

 

I would t have worked with other parties either especially not the Lib Dems who imposed austerity on working class communities between 2010-15 and then wanted a second ref in 2019!

Great speeches on the campaign to his followers and fans. I'd expect that from most people. Where was he during all the TV debates? It took him way too long to decide what to do. He did not engage enough with people, at least not to the level the Leader of the Opposition should be doing.

 

He spoke to remainer rallies :huh:

He only lost the Red Wall - despite the constant media haranguing - when the centrists forced him to take a remain position. Aaand then Blojo and Cummings made it into a Brexshit election.

The electorate forced him to take a remain position after his party got *14%* in the May 2019 elections.

I would t have worked with other parties either especially not the Lib Dems who imposed austerity on working class communities between 2010-15 and then wanted a second ref in 2019!

 

Exactly, which just proves my point. Not willing to compromise or look at the bigger picture - a large reason why Labour performed so terribly at the 2019 elections. Won the moral argument, but lost the one that history remembers. In an election which everyone knew would be about Brexit, the Leader of the Opposition was so bloody stubborn he couldn't work with other parties aligned to the single same issue the entire election was decided on!

 

He spoke to remainer rallies :huh:

 

Attended to by people who would vote Remain.. where was he during the TV debates? Absolutely nowhere as it took him months to decide what to do!

You mean because of The Giant Ego screaming that she could never work with Corbyn? And you're shocked that he couldn't work with her? Oh dear!

Exactly, which just proves my point. Not willing to compromise or look at the bigger picture - a large reason why Labour performed so terribly at the 2019 elections. Won the moral argument, but lost the one that history remembers. In an election which everyone knew would be about Brexit, the Leader of the Opposition was so bloody stubborn he couldn't work with other parties aligned to the single same issue the entire election was decided on!

Attended to by people who would vote Remain.. where was he during the TV debates? Absolutely nowhere as it took him months to decide what to do!

 

I dont think it did really he stood as leader of a pro remain party but has had major doubts about the EU project since its foundation in the 1970s. Theres nothing wrong with that for me. He certainly worked alot harder on that than his PLP or staffers in Labour HQ did at any point that he was leader.

I dont think it did really he stood as leader of a pro remain party but has had major doubts about the EU project since its foundation in the 1970s. Theres nothing wrong with that for me. He certainly worked alot harder on that than his PLP or staffers in Labour HQ did at any point that he was leader.

 

I can't agree with that, no person is bigger than the Party of Institution which they represent. Corbyn had major doubts about the formation of the EU, that is fine. The Labour Party did not have serious doubts. On a single, massive issue Corbyn should not have allowed his own personal preference to tow over the Party Line and membership which were Pro-EU for the majority.

But he didnt he still campaigned for remain. The debate here is how hard he should have campaigned