Also how soes he expect aaanyone to think that'a a legit democracy?! :rofl: He had ro go ham on the % this time, due to Wagner and the war! That's why it's ridiculously high.

 

Yeah, it shows his insecurity and vulnerability - just like Alexei Navalny's death, and the attempted Yevgeny Prigozhin/Wagner group coup in June 2023.

 

He overplayed his hand with the full scale military invasion of Ukraine in Feb '22 and has been desperately reaping the consequences ever since. Probably his only hope now is Trump winning in November and fracturing the western alliance in support of Ukraine.

100%. He is incredibly vulnerable. If he hadn't installed a puppet in Cheznia, they would be going hard for independence right now.

 

He is also trying a false flag in Moldova. He is desperstr to conquer Moldova as well.

I think it is Tranistra he’s trying to push into the Russian sphere as it’s the Russian controlled area!

 

Hilarious how he won 87% 25 years into his premiership - some going if it wasn’t so serious for Russians themselves!

Trump had a phone call with Putin and has agreed to start negotiations to end the war in Ukraine 'immediately'.

 

Trump then said he will begin by 'informing Zelenskyy of the situation'

 

so that's how this is going to go, right (coupled with Hegseth's comments about Ukraine's 2014 borders being 'unrealistic')

Well it’s been obvious for a year that Russia aren’t going to stop without the NATO element being ruled out and it’s been obvious since 2014 that Crimea is gone and not coming back so it’s just after those two things how can you limit how much land Russia keeps and it’s up Trump to make sure that it’s limited

And given how he's folding like a house of cards to the stronger party over Gaza right now, Ukraine should really start worrying.

 

Despicable that Zelenskyy/Ukraine aren't being treated as a major participant in this negotiation.

They never were. Putin is negotiating with his own fully paid up yes man

The Nato influence will be the killer part of the negotiations not land. NATO placing weapons on Ukrainian soil was always going to cause friction in the geopolitics of that part of the world. The US wouldn’t stand for it in the future if China had an alliance with a US neighbour and they didn’t like it in the past with the alliance of the Soviet Union and Cuba. So they should try and understand that fact.

How can a Ukraine that accepts peace where they cede the territory Russia has taken and cannot join NATO have assurances that Russia won't just come back for the rest whenever next convenient? It's giving away the Sudetenland levels of appeasement. They wouldn't join NATO while they have ongoing territorial disputes with Russia, sure, because that is against the terms of membership, but afterwards? Absolutely they should join, for the quite obvious protection that they need.

 

If Russia doesn't like it then they can stop being belligerent, irredentist warlords.

Well there will have to be security assurances but people need to let the NATO stuff go. It’s clearly a redline for Russia and as we’ve witnessed the past few years it’s just not worth it. They clearly don’t trust the west and having NATO on their doorstep in that way is seen as too big a threat for them. Also Putin is of a certain age now where it’s surely smarter not to provoke an aging man with such weapons. The next guy might be a lot less imperialistic.

Trump claiming he wants the war to stop is extremely laughable given his exact same imperialist intentions to take over other countries by force.

Well there will have to be security assurances but people need to let the NATO stuff go. It’s clearly a redline for Russia and as we’ve witnessed the past few years it’s just not worth it. They clearly don’t trust the west and having NATO on their doorstep in that way is seen as too big a threat for them. Also Putin is of a certain age now where it’s surely smarter not to provoke an aging man with such weapons. The next guy might be a lot less imperialistic.

 

And yet, China AND Russia literally fought USA to get them out of North Korea x Why is it one rule for them, another foe the US?? Nato wouldn't exist if it weren't for Russia being imperialistic, a bully and attacking other countries and taking their territory piecemeal...

^^This!

How can a Ukraine that accepts peace where they cede the territory Russia has taken and cannot join NATO have assurances that Russia won't just come back for the rest whenever next convenient? It's giving away the Sudetenland levels of appeasement. They wouldn't join NATO while they have ongoing territorial disputes with Russia, sure, because that is against the terms of membership, but afterwards? Absolutely they should join, for the quite obvious protection that they need.

 

If Russia doesn't like it then they can stop being belligerent, irredentist warlords.

 

What’s the answer though? Continuing spending more and more money on Ukrainians running through a slaughter mill with no alternative? Biden did that for four years and it’s achieved nothing playing a middle ground of half support.

 

Well there will have to be security assurances but people need to let the NATO stuff go. It’s clearly a redline for Russia and as we’ve witnessed the past few years it’s just not worth it. They clearly don’t trust the west and having NATO on their doorstep in that way is seen as too big a threat for them. Also Putin is of a certain age now where it’s surely smarter not to provoke an aging man with such weapons. The next guy might be a lot less imperialistic.

 

 

What’s the answer though? Continuing spending more and more money on Ukrainians running through a slaughter mill with no alternative? Biden did that for four years and it’s achieved nothing playing a middle ground of half support.

 

It's a simple and mostly satisfactory trade for Russia and Ukraine if Russia gets Crimea and the Donbas, which it has de facto control of anyway, while Ukraine gets to join NATO and permanently assure their security by being in a military alliance against their biggest threat. I don't see how what I'm suggesting is unreasonable to Russia or pro-continuing the war, Russia gets territory, and Ukraine knows they won't get more.

 

Ukraine should be part of these negotiations though, not be a minor party while the US give up all their negotiating ground to the Russians. Looks like all the major European powers agree with me, they, and we, don't want an expansionist Russia that can get away with conquest - that does make NATO nations feel they have to spend more on defense.

Trump hs always been Putin's pawn, always hated Ukraine since they wouldnt get involved in smearing his opponents, and being petty and vindictive like everything with Trump - who says what he is going to do before lying about what he's going to do - it was entirely bleedingly obvious this was on the cards. Unless Europe is willing to step in and support Ukraine with zero input from the USA it's a done deal. And I don't see Europe being able to agree the extra cost involved financially and politically, given the West has had blinkers on when it comes to Putin for 25 years and allowed this to happen by not taking action early on as he tested the waters bit by bit on what he could get away with.

 

Trump and Putin are peas in a pod. The Mein Kampf obsession was exposed by Trumps first wife, but nobody listened to her (I did) when it became obvious that he was going to use the same techniques to end democracy in the USA. If you don't fight tyrants you shouldnt be surprised when they take over, and I mean fight them legally and if that fails illegally - because they dont give a shit about taking illegal action and taking the moral highground is no consolation if the cost is the end of democracy.

 

People never learn, new generations new suckers for con-men.

It's a simple and mostly satisfactory trade for Russia and Ukraine if Russia gets Crimea and the Donbas, which it has de facto control of anyway, while Ukraine gets to join NATO and permanently assure their security by being in a military alliance against their biggest threat. I don't see how what I'm suggesting is unreasonable to Russia or pro-continuing the war, Russia gets territory, and Ukraine knows they won't get more.

 

Ukraine should be part of these negotiations though, not be a minor party while the US give up all their negotiating ground to the Russians. Looks like all the major European powers agree with me, they, and we, don't want an expansionist Russia that can get away with conquest - that does make NATO nations feel they have to spend more on defense.

 

Ukraine joining NATO is what started this in the first place. Why would Russia ever agree to that? People need to think back to when all this was starting. Every single person I saw on TV or wherever said Putin was bluffing. It’s all a tactic. They’re not going to invade Ukraine. Of course they were. Putin does not trust the west whatsoever. The idea Ukraine could be used as a proxy for NATO to go to war with Russia is a threat to him to Russia. They will do everything possible not to allow it. Their stance is we’ve been at war for years and lost hundreds of thousands of people, we are not going to just go back to what we originally wanted after all that.

 

NATO has to be off the table. Russia are not ever accepting a deal with NATO on the table. This whole war proved that without acting like Israel or using extreme weapons then Russia aren’t exactly a 21st century smooth elite fighting force. The paranoia people have that they’re going to take over this country and that country seems far fetched. They took Crimea which is tiny and was basically as Russian as you get over 10 years ago that’s hardly a country going full expansionist. The war needs to stop. Ukraine needs to rebuild and become financially secure again and then they can use the knowledge of this war to prop up their defenses and security etc.

 

The people saying it’s giving up leverage are mostly the ones who failed to negotiate anything for the last few years, the same ones also who said Putin was bluffing about invading before too, they don’t know anything. Russia was not entering talks until NATO was off the table. They have 20% of Ukraine right now. If they’re giving back 15% and the war is ended then surely that’s better than prolonging the war seeing hundreds of thousands more die and Russia getting more territory. Zelensky has had several talks with Trump he has one with Putin and people are saying Ukraine was left out, Ukraine and Zelensky have been willing to end the war the past few months it was just Putin remaining quiet. I don’t think they’ve been left out at all. Whether people agree or not this was a hugely pointless war due to a stubbornness over NATO that didn’t need to exist and the end result will be no NATO and lost land which just shows how pointless that stubbornness was, some people at the top hate such a deal as it really shows their stubbornness led to a lot of deaths for nothing.

 

 

Why does Russia need to agree to what another sovereign state chooses to do? They didn’t agree to Finland joining NATO and yet here we are. The Baltic states too. And yet none of those 4 have been invaded. Why doesn’t Ukraine SPECIFICALLY deserve the right to self determination and its sovereignty

Again, NATO ONLY exists because of Russian aggression lol. Russia can make NATO go away basically overnight by, um, not invading or conducting hybrid wars, or acting like it should decide what the countries next to it do. The reason why south American countries aren't in a defensive pact with Russia and China is precisely because the US doesn't go around invading them!

I'll state this as plainly as I can, a deal where it's clear the US and Russia have dictated terms of surrender to Ukraine and Putin walks away with not just concessions, but a clear victory over his neighbour, is one that should be very worrying for the entire European continent.

 

America will have basically bypassed European security to ensure peace no matter the cost, including an increase to defence spending for all of them - and it's the most likely strategy to lead to more conflict when Russia wants to come back for more. There need to be consequences for warlord imperialism to maintain the remarkable peace we have had in the international order post-war. 'Might makes right' is not a pretty international order to be in once a few more examples of it happen* - and for all the criticism of the US military machine, they've for the most part acted as a counterbalance against that post-1945, this is now an indication of them joining in.

 

*if I were in Taiwan I would be very worried right now.