Well whether it's "white-middle class kids" (not forgetting that the younger generation are the ones who have to deal with this crisis, not so much the boomers) somebody needs to do something. If the public then fail to take it seriously, it's their futures they are screwing up. Like you I question some of their methods but not their motives. Like so many other things it becomes part of the culture war with the Murdoch press demonising them whilst they are in cohorts with the fossil fuel industry.

I agree with the aims and motives behind what they're doing but massively disagree about the way they are carrying it out. Sure, they did raise significant public awareness in 2019 but I think they squandered much of that with their ridiculous stunt in October on the tube train at Canning Town.

 

I can't agree with you when you say protest ALWAYS has to be violent and disruptive to provoke change. Thích Quảng Đức's self-immolation was not necessarily violent and disruptive but it was a powerful statement, and eventually did provoke change. Blocking a load of people going about their daily lives, many of which are probably not exactly thrilled to be having to drive on the M25 in the first place, is hardly going to win them over by being massively inconvenienced. Why can't they target the rich bastards like those with private jets or massively polluting luxury yachts? I'd be right behind that.

I agree with the aims and motives behind what they're doing but massively disagree about the way they are carrying it out. Sure, they did raise significant public awareness in 2019 but I think they squandered much of that with their ridiculous stunt in October on the tube train at Canning Town.

 

I can't agree with you when you say protest ALWAYS has to be violent and disruptive to provoke change. Thích Quảng Đức's self-immolation was not necessarily violent and disruptive but it was a powerful statement, and eventually did provoke change. Blocking a load of people going about their daily lives, many of which are probably not exactly thrilled to be having to drive on the M25 in the first place, is hardly going to win them over by being massively inconvenienced. Why can't they target the rich bastards like those with private jets or massively polluting luxury yachts? I'd be right behind that.

 

The problem is two-fold, though. First, that eventually everyone will be massively inconvenienced far more so than whatever this lot are doing if courses are not reversed, which is the message that should be got across. Second, it's a lot harder to target rich people's property, if activists do manage to get close, a hard ask in itself, they will find a way to make them look like criminals. They should be doing it, but it comes with a lot more risk.

 

I have concerns about XR's activity, far more so than any one event they've done they've shown a pattern of appearing like activists with little else to do, which is what I think makes them truly easier to dismiss, if the perception is that they're middle-class kids or whatever, probably not true, but if the media finds an individual XR activist they will find a trust fund kid or a well-meaning housewife of a oil company's accountant in order that they can claim hypocrisy, laziness etc.

 

It is broadly right that every single successful protest movement in history had people standing in their way while appearing like they support it, saying that they agree with the aims and motives but not the methods, not what I'm saying you're doing because I know your general views on the subject - even successful peaceful protests had that thrown at them. But it also goes doubly for violent and disruptive groups - and there where the alternative is more violence or more disruption in the future that will hurt the people the protests are aiming to protect, then I have to agree it is justified. I can very easily see a future where some great climactic tragedy happens in the next 15 years (most likely, mass migration from now uninhabitable equatorial countries and something like a huge refugee drowning scandal) and it will be true that we should have done more and it could have been avoided.

 

I do think XR need to be working with other, allied groups, green charities, Corbyn's Peace and Justice project and other left-wing groups that have activist credentials, business groups, in an attempt to push through climate action, have it taken seriously and not such a magnet for brain-dead right-wing morons to be laughing at while the world hurtles towards everyone's graves. They've not been as good as they could have been. But we do need groups like them until we're on course to keep the planet habitable over the next century.

FINALLY - something I can actually get on board with.

 

@1444205382981804032

Saaaaaaaaame. Finally a worthwhile thing to target. If only they’d started there instead of targeting the tube

Don't enjoy the tactics of Insulate Britain however I am very much enjoying this clip - Cameron from Insulate Britain calmly disarming Mike 'Gammon' Graham's BS. *.*

 

 

 

PS- How come in the budget the government thinks it's a good idea to reduce the tax on (arguably pointless for a country the size of the UK) domestic flights the week before they lead COP26 and try to lecture the rest of the world to take serious action on climate change. The absolute state of this government.

Don't enjoy the tactics of Insulate Britain however I am very much enjoying this clip - Cameron from Insulate Britain calmly disarming Mike 'Gammon' Graham's BS. *.*

 

PS- How come in the budget the government thinks it's a good idea to reduce the tax on (arguably pointless for a country the size of the UK) domestic flights the week before they lead COP26 and try to lecture the rest of the world to take serious action on climate change. The absolute state of this government.

 

You can tell the interviewer had a pre-determined script to try and make Cameron look like an idiot. No surprise he managed to come across as a complete tool. The silence is absolutely golden!