June 7, 20214 yr hahaha true at least the US has changed the rules for album bundles, it was crazy that you were buying a gig tix, getting the album for free, but was counting towards the charts and could be 200,000 sales when in truth it was zero. I think it was DJ Khaled that was giving his album for free when buying a bottle of water and wanted it to count for the charts lol
June 8, 20214 yr Spotify are doing album charts again so here's a sidebyside comparison, for how an album chart may look without GH albums (and of course no actual sales either) Spotify 50: 01 01 Olivia Rodrigo ~ Sour 08 02 Dua Lipa ~ Future Nostalgia 28 03 Justin Bieber ~ Justice 12 04 J. Cole ~ The Off-Season 19 05 Pop Smoke ~ Shoot For The Stars, Aim For The Moon 49 06 Måneskin ~ Teatro D'Ira: Vol 1 37 07 AJ Tracey ~ Flu Game 38 08 Juice WRLD ~ Goodbye & Good Riddance 18 09 Harry Styles ~ Fine Line xx 10 Tom Grennan ~ Evering Road 62 11 The Weeknd ~ After Hours 34 12 Central Cee ~ Wild West 07 13 Bugzy Malone ~ The Resurrection 92 14 D-Block Europe ~ The Blue Print: Us Vs. Them 22 15 Fleetwood Mac ~ Rumours 44 16 Juice WRLD ~ Legends Never Die 16 17 Ed Sheeran ~ ÷ 20 18 Lewis Capaldi ~ Divinely Uninspired To A Hellish Extent 31 19 Oasis ~ (What's the Story) Morning Glory 58 20 The Kid Laroi ~ F**k Love 43 21 Arctic Monkeys ~ AM 74 22 Ariana Grande ~ Positions xx 23 Lil Tjay ~ Destined 2 Win xx 24 OST ~ Hamilton 69 25 Post Malone ~ Hollywood's Bleeding xx 26 Doja Cat ~ Hot Pink 32 27 Mabel ~ High Expectations 29 28 Billie Eilish ~ When We All Fall Asleep, Where Do We Go? xx 29 Polo G ~ The Goat 33 30 Dua Lipa ~ Dua Lipa xx 31 Ava Max ~ Heaven & Hell 73 32 Machine Gun Kelly ~ Tickets To My Downfall 54 33 Dermot Kennedy ~ Without Fear xx 33 OST ~ The Greatest Showman 51 34 Arctic Monkeys ~ Whatever People Say I Am, That's What I'm Not xx 36 Glass Animals ~ Dreamland 30 37 Little Mix ~ Confetti 24 38 Twenty One Pilots ~ Scaled and Icy 47 39 Ed Sheeran ~ No.6 Collaborations Project 50 40 Bruno Mars ~ Doo-Wops & Hooligans xx 41 Drake ~ Scorpion 88 42 XXXTentacion ~ ? xx 43 The Killers ~ Hot Fuss 79 44 Ed Sheeran ~ × xx 45 Pop Smoke ~ Meet the Woo 2 xx 46 Dave ~ Psychodrama 06 47 Rag'n'Bone Man ~ Life By Misadventure 68 48 DJ Khaled ~ Khaled Khaled xx 49 Miley Cyrus ~ Plastic Hearts xx 50 Drake ~ Views In Spotify 50, not in OCC top 50: xx 10 Tom Grennan ~ Evering Road 62 11 The Weeknd ~ After Hours 92 14 D-Block Europe ~ The Blue Print: Us Vs. Them 58 20 The Kid Laroi ~ F**k Love 74 22 Ariana Grande ~ Positions xx 23 Lil Tjay ~ Destined 2 Win xx 24 OST ~ Hamilton 69 25 Post Malone ~ Hollywood's Bleeding xx 26 Doja Cat ~ Hot Pink xx 29 Polo G ~ The Goat xx 31 Ava Max ~ Heaven & Hell 73 32 Machine Gun Kelly ~ Tickets To My Downfall 54 33 Dermot Kennedy ~ Without Fear xx 33 OST ~ The Greatest Showman 51 34 Arctic Monkeys ~ Whatever People Say I Am, That's What I'm Not xx 36 Glass Animals ~ Dreamland xx 41 Drake ~ Scorpion 88 42 XXXTentacion ~ ? xx 43 The Killers ~ Hot Fuss 79 44 Ed Sheeran ~ × xx 45 Pop Smoke ~ Meet the Woo 2 xx 46 Dave ~ Psychodrama 68 48 DJ Khaled ~ Khaled Khaled xx 49 Miley Cyrus ~ Plastic Hearts xx 50 Drake ~ Views In OCC top 50, not in Spotify 50: 02 xx Easy Life ~ Life's a Beach 03 xx Texas ~ Hi 04 xx Taylor Swift ~ Evermore 05 xx Del Amitri ~ Fatal Mistakes 09 xx Fleetwood Mac ~ 50 Years: Don't Stop 10 xx Elton John ~ Diamonds 11 xx The Weeknd ~ The Highlights 13 xx Queen ~ Greatest Hits 14 xx P!nk ~ All I Know So Far: Setlist 15 xx David Bowie ~ The Width of a Circle 17 xx Blackberry Smoke ~ You Hear Georgia 21 xx Moby ~ Reprise 23 xx Oasis ~ Time Flies: 1994-2009 25 xx Bob Marley and The Wailers ~ Legend 26 xx Eminem ~ Curtain Call: The Hits 27 xx Abba ~ Gold: Greatest Hits 35 xx Michael Jackson ~ Number Ones 36 xx Becky Hill ~ Get To Know 39 xx Royal Blood ~ Typhoons 40 xx Maroon 5 ~ Singles 41 xx David Bowie ~ Legacy 42 xx George Michael ~ Twenty Five 45 xx The Beatles ~ 1 46 xx P!nk ~ Greatest Hits… So Far!!! 48 xx Whitney Houston ~ The Ultimate Collection GH albums in red, and most of the rest are primarily physical sellers Måneskin clearly have an album that people are genuinely listening to, enough to be top 10 by Spotify's system, but officially are well outside of the top 40. Tom Grennan top 10, yet not even top 100 officially, but that could just be down to his 2 current hit singles being way more popular than the rest of the album.
June 8, 20214 yr But this Spotify album list includes playlist counts thats why Tom Greenan is so high, the Apple list is much closer to the real thing, there Tom Greenan is at 100-ish Måneskin are #19 on Apple
June 9, 20214 yr Yea I'd say AM chart is more an indication of what albums people are listening to in full.
June 9, 20214 yr At the time this thread was started (at the end of March), I had been thinking of doing an April Fool about the albums chart. The gist of it was going to be that the OCC had devised a mind-bogglingly complicated method of estimating how often (and when) an album was played after it had been bought with allowances for genre, events that would boost plays etc. That would then be used to generate extra "sales" for the album. The idea was that an album that relied heavily on actual sales would not suffer as badly in the second week (and, if sales were high enough, a few weeks beyond that).
June 10, 20214 yr ^ Completely convincing and many would've bought into it I'm sure! Frankly had the OCC announced some of their present rules around 1st April as opposed to early July I might've assumed they were Fools' Day send-ups!!
June 10, 20214 yr At the time this thread was started (at the end of March), I had been thinking of doing an April Fool about the albums chart. The gist of it was going to be that the OCC had devised a mind-bogglingly complicated method of estimating how often (and when) an album was played after it had been bought with allowances for genre, events that would boost plays etc. That would then be used to generate extra "sales" for the album. The idea was that an album that relied heavily on actual sales would not suffer as badly in the second week (and, if sales were high enough, a few weeks beyond that). "With co-operation from setlist.fm, we are now including audience numbers from live shows in the single & album charts, with a new Ultra On-Demand ratio that equates to 1/10th of a sale per song per person." Edited June 10, 20214 yr by Dircadirca
June 10, 20214 yr unfortunately it seems the industry is all too happy to count these playlist streams so they can pretend acts like Mabel, Becky Hill, Jax Jones are having hit albums and inflating the sales figures of the likes of Dua Lipa, Lewis Capaldi, Harry Styles too even if they have genuinely big albums. so I doubt they’re going to change this aspect of the chart. not that it’ll “save” the album chart but they really need to get a hold of the sheer number of greatest hits albums in the chart though, there are as many as 32 GHs in the top 100 this week. then you also have old albums doing well because they have a good few hits on them like Rumors, Morning Glory, AM etc also clogging up space in the chart. there should be a seperate chart for old greatest hits albums , maybe introduce the recurrent rule same as in the US, that will make the album chart more current and more reflective of the current trends, and also would make way for other new artists to appear on the charts.... and definitly playlists should be removed from album charts...
June 10, 20214 yr hahaha true at least the US has changed the rules for album bundles, it was crazy that you were buying a gig tix, getting the album for free, but was counting towards the charts and could be 200,000 sales when in truth it was zero. I think it was DJ Khaled that was giving his album for free when buying a bottle of water and wanted it to count for the charts lol older artists like Madonna , Celine Dion etc would lose the most due to this new rule... their last albums had chart runs of 1-87 due to the bundle thing... now they would barely make it into the charts
June 10, 20214 yr there should be a seperate chart for old greatest hits albums , maybe introduce the recurrent rule same as in the US, that will make the album chart more current and more reflective of the current trends, and also would make way for other new artists to appear on the charts.... and definitly playlists should be removed from album charts... US don't have a recurrent rule for albums, Queen's Greatest Hits for example is in their top 20.
June 10, 20214 yr Let's not exaggerate... Madonna's latest went 2-14-21.. and her audience isn't bad at streaming at all. Madonna’s latest is Madame X and not Rebel Heart... it flopped from 1 to 77 due to inflated first week bundles... streaming numbers are almost non existent due to her fans demographics... Madonna’s Madame X tumbles from number 1 to 77 on Billboard Hot 200
June 10, 20214 yr US don't have a recurrent rule for albums, Queen's Greatest Hits for example is in their top 20.They did have one in the past (according to Wikipedia it 'removed albums over 18 months old, that have dropped below position 100 and have no currently-running single', sending them to a separate catalogue chart), which meant that none of Michael Jackson's albums/compilations charted upon his death; the rule was dropped later in 2009. They do still publish a Top Current Albums chart under the old rules, but 'old rules' meaning no streaming either. (#56 on the current Top Current Albums chart is #100 on the Top Album Sales chart)
June 10, 20214 yr Madonna’s latest is Madame X and not Rebel Heart... it flopped from 1 to 77 due to inflated first week bundles... streaming numbers are almost non existent due to her fans demographics... Madonna’s Madame X tumbles from number 1 to 77 on Billboard Hot 200 Which is why I edited my post.
June 12, 20214 yr but sure the UK has so many GHs cos of the idiotic chart rule that if you stream Elton John-Sacrifice from his Sleeping with eh Past album, you also give a stream to the GH Diamonds even if you're never ever even searched for that GH album, seriously, what's the logic in that :D sure no other country has so many GHs cos no one else has such a bizarre and arbitrary and nonsensical rule :D If I wanted to listen to ‘Sacrifice’ by Elton John I would automatically go and search for the ‘Diamonds’ album not the album it was from tbf.
June 12, 20214 yr ^but thats not what I said, if Im listening to the parent album why I have to give points to Diamonds lol
June 12, 20214 yr I agree I’m just saying what I would do. What happens in the albums chart then do you need a certain amount of listens to equal one sale?
October 3, 20222 yr I thought I'd bump this thread rather than create a new one, for a post which is only going to be theoretical and arbitrary! It's a "what if the album chart had some form of ACR?" scenario. I've arbitrarily halved the streaming units of any album that been available for 53 weeks or more (i.e. a year). I just wanted to see to what extent this would shake up the album chart. The results, from the 26th August 2022 chart: NEW CHART POSITION / THE OCC CHART POSITION / THE DIFFERENCE IN POSITION / ARTIST / TITLE 01 01 ±00 STEPS - PLATINUM COLLECTION 02 02 ±00 AITCH - CLOSE TO HOME 03 03 ±00 MADONNA - FINALLY ENOUGH LOVE 04 04 ±00 HARRY STYLES - HARRY'S HOUSE 05 05 ±00 PANIC AT THE DISCO - VIVA LAS VENGEANCE 06 06 ±00 OASIS - BE HERE NOW 07 07 ±00 DEMI LOVATO - HOLY FVCK 08 08 ±00 BEYONCE - RENAISSANCE 09 09 ±00 ED SHEERAN - = 10 16 +06 HOT CHIP - FREAKOUT/RELEASE 11 18 +07 EMINEM - CURTAIN CALL 2 12 19 +07 FIVE FINGER DEATH PUNCH - AFTERLIFE 13 20 +07 BECKY HILL - ONLY HONEST ON THE WEEKEND 14 25 +11 LITTLE MIX - BETWEEN US 15 26 +11 GEORGE EZRA - GOLD RUSH KID 16 27 +11 COLDPLAY - MUSIC OF THE SPHERES 17 31 +14 SAM FENDER - SEVENTEEN GOING UNDER 18 10 -08 WEEKND - THE HIGHLIGHTS 19 11 -08 ELVIS PRESLEY - ELV1S - 30 NUMBER 1 HITS 20 12 -08 ABBA - GOLD - GREATEST HITS 21 34 +13 KASABIAN - THE ALCHEMIST'S EUPHORIA 22 35 +13 ARRDEE - PIER PRESSURE 23 39 +16 FISHERMAN'S FRIENDS - ONE AND ALL - OST 24 13 -11 OLIVIA RODRIGO - SOUR 25 14 -11 QUEEN - GREATEST HITS 26 40 +14 BURNA BOY - LOVE DAMINI 27 15 -12 EMINEM - CURTAIN CALL - THE HITS 28 21 -07 ARCTIC MONKEYS - AM 29 45 +16 PAOLO NUTINI - LAST NIGHT IN THE BITTERSWEET 30 17 -13 FLEETWOOD MAC - 50 YEARS - DON'T STOP 31 49 +18 XXXTENTACION - LOOK AT ME - THE ALBUM 32 50 +18 DRAKE - HONESTLY NEVERMIND 33 51 +18 DRAKE - CERTIFIED LOVER BOY 34 22 -12 ED SHEERAN - DIVIDE 35 29 -06 BOB MARLEY & THE WAILERS - LEGEND 36 23 -13 OASIS - TIME FLIES - 1994-2009 37 24 -13 ELTON JOHN - DIAMONDS 38 60 +22 DANGER MOUSE & BLACK THOUGHT - CHEAT CODES 39 28 -11 HARRY STYLES - FINE LINE 40 72 +32 KENDRICK LAMAR - MR. MORALE & THE BIG STEPPERS 41 77 +36 CHATS - GET F**KED 42 80 +38 D-BLOCK EUROPE - HOME ALONE 2 43 82 +39 ADELE - 30 44 33 -11 FLEETWOOD MAC - RUMOURS 45 30 -15 LEWIS CAPALDI - DIVINELY UNINSPIRED TO A HELLISH EXTENT 46 94 +48 CALVIN HARRIS - FUNK WAV BOUNCES - VOL 2 47 96 +49 I PREVAIL - TRUE POWER 48 37 -11 TAYLOR SWIFT - FOLKLORE 49 32 -17 MICHAEL JACKSON - NUMBER ONES 50 103 +53 TAYLOR SWIFT - RED (TAYLOR'S VERSION) 51 36 -15 ARCTIC MONKEYS - WHATEVER PEOPLE SAY I AM THAT'S WHAT I'M 52 105 +53 POST MALONE - TWELVE CARAT TOOTHACHE 53 107 +54 WEEKND - DAWN FM 54 108 +54 SCRIPT - TALES FROM THE SCRIPT - GREATEST HITS 55 38 -17 OASIS - WHAT'S THE STORY MORNING GLORY 56 112 +56 WET LEG - WET LEG 57 43 -14 BILLIE EILISH - HAPPIER THAN EVER 58 41 -17 BEATLES - 1 59 42 -17 TAYLOR SWIFT - 1989 60 48 -12 TAYLOR SWIFT - LOVER 61 127 +66 LAURAN HIBBERD - GARAGEBAND SUPERSTAR 62 134 +72 BRENT FAIYAZ - WASTELAND 63 44 -19 DUA LIPA - FUTURE NOSTALGIA 64 46 -18 DAVID BOWIE - LEGACY 65 144 +79 MABEL - ABOUT LAST NIGHT 66 148 +82 CHRIS BROWN - BREEZY 67 59 -08 GEORGE EZRA - STAYING AT TAMARA'S 68 69 +01 SAM FENDER - HYPERSONIC MISSILES 69 154 +85 REM - CHRONIC TOWN 70 162 +92 MACHINE GUN KELLY - MAINSTREAM SELLOUT 71 47 -24 MAROON 5 - SINGLES 72 67 -05 LANA DEL REY - BORN TO DIE 73 75 +02 NIRVANA - NEVERMIND 74 55 -19 DOJA CAT - PLANET HER 75 53 -22 RED HOT CHILI PEPPERS - GREATEST HITS 76 63 -13 FOO FIGHTERS - GREATEST HITS 77 171 +94 ELVIS PRESLEY - THE REAL ELVIS 78 76 -02 HARRY STYLES - HARRY STYLES 79 54 -25 GEORGE MICHAEL - TWENTY FIVE 80 52 -28 WHITNEY HOUSTON - I WILL ALWAYS LOVE YOU - THE BEST OF 81 174 +93 PALE WAVES - UNWANTED 82 176 +94 MEGAN THEE STALLION - TRAUMAZINE 83 178 +95 CENTRAL CEE - 23 84 57 -27 DUA LIPA - DUA LIPA 85 66 -19 BILLIE EILISH - WHEN WE ALL FALL ASLEEP WHERE DO WE GO 86 184 +98 DUSTY SPRINGFIELD - ESSENTIAL 87 56 -31 50 CENT - BEST OF 88 58 -30 DAVE - WE'RE ALL ALONE IN THIS TOGETHER 89 93 +04 KATE BUSH - THE WHOLE STORY 90 188 +98 JAMES BLUNT - THE STARS BENEATH MY FEET (2004 - 2021) 91 62 -29 KILLERS - DIRECT HITS 92 194 +102 BTS - PROOF 93 195 +102 IMAGINE DRAGONS - MERCURY - ACT 1 94 196 +102 WATERBOYS - ALL SOULS HILL 95 198 +103 ROYKSOPP - PROFOUND MYSTERIES II 96 199 +103 CONAN GRAY - SUPERACHE 97 74 -23 OASIS - DEFINITELY MAYBE 98 200 +102 SHANIA TWAIN - NOT JUST A GIRL - THE HIGHLIGHTS 99 205 +106 LIFE - NORTH EAST COASTAL TOWN 100 206 +106 FLORENCE + THE MACHINE - DANCE FEVER These albums actually were Top 100 in the OCC chart, but wouldn't have made it with the ACR rule: OCC Position 61 BECKY HILL - GET TO KNOW 64 BILLY JOEL - PIANO MAN - THE VERY BEST OF 65 SAM SMITH - IN THE LONELY HOUR 68 POP SMOKE - SHOOT FOR THE STARS AIM FOR THE MOON 70 GREEN DAY - GREATEST HITS - GOD'S FAVORITE BAND 71 BRUNO MARS - DOO-WOPS & HOOLIGANS 73 WEEKND - STARBOY 78 LADY GAGA - THE FAME 79 ARCTIC MONKEYS - FAVOURITE WORST NIGHTMARE 81 ADELE - 25 83 ED SHEERAN - X 84 50 CENT - GET RICH OR DIE TRYIN' 85 EMINEM - THE EMINEM SHOW 86 KATY PERRY - TEENAGE DREAM 87 PHIL COLLINS - THE SINGLES 88 STEVIE WONDER - THE DEFINITIVE COLLECTION 89 TAYLOR SWIFT - REPUTATION 90 BILLIE EILISH - DON'T SMILE AT ME 91 PINK - GREATEST HITS - SO FAR 92 BON JOVI - GREATEST HITS 95 ADELE - 21 97 GUNS N' ROSES - GREATEST HITS 98 BRITNEY SPEARS - THE SINGLES COLLECTION 99 SMITHS - THE SOUND OF 100 TAYLOR SWIFT - EVERMORE They would have been replaced by: New Position / OCC Position 50 103 TAYLOR SWIFT - RED (TAYLOR'S VERSION) 52 105 POST MALONE - TWELVE CARAT TOOTHACHE 53 107 WEEKND - DAWN FM 54 108 SCRIPT - TALES FROM THE SCRIPT - GREATEST HITS 56 112 WET LEG - WET LEG 61 127 LAURAN HIBBERD - GARAGEBAND SUPERSTAR 62 134 BRENT FAIYAZ - WASTELAND 65 144 MABEL - ABOUT LAST NIGHT 66 148 CHRIS BROWN - BREEZY 69 154 REM - CHRONIC TOWN 70 162 MACHINE GUN KELLY - MAINSTREAM SELLOUT 77 171 ELVIS PRESLEY - THE REAL ELVIS 81 174 PALE WAVES - UNWANTED 82 176 MEGAN THEE STALLION - TRAUMAZINE 83 178 CENTRAL CEE - 23 86 184 DUSTY SPRINGFIELD - ESSENTIAL 90 188 JAMES BLUNT - THE STARS BENEATH MY FEET (2004 - 2021) 92 194 BTS - PROOF 93 195 IMAGINE DRAGONS - MERCURY - ACT 1 94 196 WATERBOYS - ALL SOULS HILL 95 198 ROYKSOPP - PROFOUND MYSTERIES II 96 199 CONAN GRAY - SUPERACHE 98 200 SHANIA TWAIN - NOT JUST A GIRL - THE HIGHLIGHTS 99 205 LIFE - NORTH EAST COASTAL TOWN 100 206 FLORENCE + THE MACHINE - DANCE FEVER Clearly even halving the streaming wouldn't completely get rid of many of the prevailing Greatest Hits - but at the very least pushes them down quite a few places, and creates a bit more room for newer albums to attain better positions. 25% of the chart would be different albums, and on the whole quite a bit fresher. Kasabian's album would have gone 1-21 instead of 1-34 Pale Waves 4-81 instead of 4-174 I don't have the full data for a week later. Roughly speaking, I think Steps would have stayed Top 15 instead of falling out the Top 20, Aitch would have remained Top 20 instead of falling to #30, and Demi Lovato around 7-60 instead of 7-125. Obviously still pretty bad falls, but not as drastic as the reality. If ACR was used in the album chart then presumably they'd figure out something more technical than simply "1 year old = onto ACR", and I'm not sure what that would be... but I think I'd welcome a change. Though I doubt one will ever happen if it hasn't up to now. I'll always find it a curiosity that the OCC have taken great measures to try and ensure that the singles chart is as fresh and fast moving as possible, but with the albums chart they seem perfectly content with the way things are. If the singles chart can be manipulated to such an extent, then why not the albums chart as well? Something I occasionally contemplate is how I'd feel if Greatest Hits type of albums were excluded from the album chart and went to their own Artist Compilations chart. Or at least the ones that are above a certain age. I suppose that boils down to whether people appreciate the likes of ABBA Gold being everlasting in the album chart.
October 3, 20222 yr Interesting... I think it is super arbitrary to have Little Mix's GH on SCR when The Weekend's is not, regardless of the release date. Because they both include mostly old music.
October 3, 20222 yr Ideally for Greatest Hits albums it should be that : paid for sales - counts to the chart streaming - does not count so then you’d still get Steps for example having their number one due to their fan base buys but not have all the old shit kicking around for an eternity and double counting to their studio albums and GH.
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