I was so glad Charlene was first to go. She, Sue, Chris and George are vile. Their bullying behaviour has been appalling to watch. I think many of the celebs in there need to remember their pasts, such as drink driving offences, locking people in their house etc. Matt has my vote to win.

 

 

I fail to see how anyone has bullied Matt at all to be honest .

Have literally watched 2 episodes this series…

 

with Matt and BG in there i’m just not interested..

 

have the ratings been as good as normal ?

Launch show ratings were up on last year, not sure on the rest of the series as consolidated ratings aren't in for other episodes yet!

I’m a partisan Labour supporter but to blame Matt Hancock for Covid deaths isn’t very fair, things were a lot more complicated than that. It’s also very easy to look at things in the benefit of hindsight.

*takes notes* we’re up to the point of defending Matt Hancock’s character now, got it.

 

From what people have seen on the show yes!

And I think, with the British public's form, it's not unfair or ridiculous to suggest it could be about race. Personally I don't understand what's so objectionable about Charlene (although not saying anyone who does dislike her is automatically doing so because of her race) and she wasn't a background character either. Perhaps she just wasn't in most people's top 2/3/however many they vote for, but we know confident black women are the last people the public like to support sadly.

 

Not shocked that Matt might survive for a while, he's not been unpleasant in there at all but he's clearly smart and knows exactly what to say in front of the cameras to get the public on side. Disappointed but not surprised that it seems to be working.

 

So calling what’s happening to Matt on the show isn’t bullying is a reach but saying Charlene was voted off first was because of race isn’t a reach. :wacko:

So calling what’s happening to Matt on the show isn’t bullying is a reach but saying Charlene was voted off first was because of race isn’t a reach. :wacko:

Yes, I don't see how these relate? I didn't say Charlene was definitely voted off because of race, I said it's "not unfair or ridiculous to suggest it could be about race", which is true, we don't know for definite and the public has form for taking a dislike to confident black women in shows like this (I mean, how else could anyone explain Fleur East, with her immense technical dancing ability, being in the dance off at any stage of this Strictly series?). Perhaps it wasn't race-related at all, it's really not for me to say as a white person and you'd be far better talking to a person of colour about their angle on the matter.

I’m a partisan Labour supporter but to blame Matt Hancock for Covid deaths isn’t very fair, things were a lot more complicated than that. It’s also very easy to look at things in the benefit of hindsight.

His job literally was to be accountable.

Yes, I don't see how these relate? I didn't say Charlene was definitely voted off because of race, I said it's "not unfair or ridiculous to suggest it could be about race", which is true, we don't know for definite and the public has form for taking a dislike to confident black women in shows like this (I mean, how else could anyone explain Fleur East, with her immense technical dancing ability, being in the dance off at any stage of this Strictly series?). Perhaps it wasn't race-related at all, it's really not for me to say as a white person and you'd be far better talking to a person of colour about their angle on the matter.

 

But you argued both sides in the thread suggesting it could be. I believe Charlene was voted off simply because of the fact she dictated the making of dinner most nights and was quite bossy, that was just my interpretation of her. Overall though she didn’t annoy me massively.

His job literally was to be accountable.

 

Of course but is he responsible for the deaths?

Nobody is saying he went out and physically murdered people. But he still was accountable for the decisions and very likely made many of those decisions himself. It is crass beyond belief that he has the nerve to go on the show.

 

I feel like you’re just being contrary for the sake of it tbh

But you argued both sides in the thread suggesting it could be. I believe Charlene was voted off simply because of the fact she dictated the making of dinner most nights and was quite bossy, that was just my interpretation of her. Overall though she didn’t annoy me massively.

I don't really get what point you're trying to make here or how either thing you mentioned in your previous post to me relate to each other? I believe Charlene's elimination could have been the result of her race (did not suggest this was definitely the case and explicitly said this won't apply to everyone), and that Matt hasn't been bullied at all. I don't get the issue?

Nobody is saying he went out and physically murdered people. But he still was accountable for the decisions and very likely made many of those decisions himself. It is crass beyond belief that he has the nerve to go on the show.

 

I feel like you’re just being contrary for the sake of it tbh

 

Oh I agree that it was a strange decision to go on the show just don’t think it’s fair in hindsight to blame him for it all. I know that’s part and parcel of the job but everyone is human and makes mistakes in their jobs everyday. I wouldn’t have known what to do in February 2020 about an unknown disease like Covid.

I don't really get what point you're trying to make here or how either thing you mentioned in your previous post to me relate to each other? I believe Charlene's elimination could have been the result of her race (did not suggest this was definitely the case and explicitly said this won't apply to everyone), and that Matt hasn't been bullied at all. I don't get the issue?

 

I believe your letting your views on Hancock get in the way of the situation he is facing in the show and with Charlene you automatically are suggesting she was voted out due to her race and not her character with next to no evidence to support it.

Edited November 20, 20222 yr by Steve201

What is probably correct to observe is that the public seem to be less able to forgive a couple of women for having pretty strong views around the situation they were facing with Matt than they are when it comes to forgiving Matt and his colleagues in government for the mistakes they have made

Oh DEARY ME at some of the responses in here. Whether it’s the wilful ignoring that race bias exists in the UK even if it wasn’t to only reason Charlene went or trying to absolve Matt Hancock with ‘yes I know his decisions lead to thousands of deaths but he’s always been nice to me x’ it’s almost enough to make me log out and never return.

 

Sure people make mistakes. But this man wasn’t up to the job and made self serving decisions at completely the wrong time. Helping out his mates instead of sorting PPE properly and sending sick people back to live with the most vulnerable are not the actions of someone who was trying their best and just didn’t know what to do. He then went on to gaslight the nation any time he received criticism by saying ‘I’m saving lives’ whilst simultaneously voting against free school meals for vulnerable children. Speaking of children, I’m sure his are really pleased he’s banging on about how in love he is on TV just to let them know why their dad isn’t around anymore. Which also brings us to his breaking of lockdown rules he helped enforce.

 

Then he has the gall to accept almost half a million pounds to abandon his well paid job for a month so he can plug a book, try to turn himself into some celebrity personality and remind people of their suffering from over the past two years.

 

It’s absolutely sickening ITV have given him the time of day. And it’s more sickening to see how many of you have gotten sucked in to thinking it’s ok. I don’t know if there’s some desperate fence sitting going on or people actually enjoyed the pandemic.

What is probably correct to observe is that the public seem to be less able to forgive a couple of women for having pretty strong views around the situation they were facing with Matt than they are when it comes to forgiving Matt and his colleagues in government for the mistakes they have made

 

Oh and this completely.

 

Although I’m sure at least one person in here will say there’s ‘no evidence’ of this.

I believe your letting your views on Hancock get in the way of the situation he is facing in the show and with Charlene you automatically are suggesting she was voted out due to her race and not her character with next to no evidence to support it.

I don't think you've actually read any of my posts but allow me to clarify for once and for all.

 

My views on Matt Hancock

Of course, I'm no Hancock fan from before the show. I think he handled the COVID situation as health minister in a dreadful way and then broke his own guidelines. However, I was keen to watch him with an open mind on the show. I spoke of this in the post below, which I'm quoting so you can remind yourself of my actual stance rather than making assumptions.

 

I don't agree that he should have been given the chance to appear on a show like this. His incompetence as health secretary and MP is still a recent memory for people, especially those who lost people during the pandemic. He doesn't deserve the chance to appear happy and friendly on a show like this. The producers have clearly jumped at the chance to take the piss out of him (can't blame them) but for him, this is clearly a chance to change how he's perceived and to show a human side to him. Why should he get the chance when he didn't care about the public during the pandemic? When he's abandoned his job as MP for this show?

 

However, he's there, and there's little I can do about it. I'll watch with an open mind for the duration of the show (as I do with any celebrity on there, or any other adjacent show) and allow my own opinion to be formed on him as a campmate. Liking him on here doesn't mean liking him in the real world, after all. I've been finding him quite funny with Seann so far (they're the most ridiculous pairing I've seen on a show like this and their camaraderie is genuinely funny). Doesn't change my view on him as an MP (or all round person), but for an hour a night, he's on a show that I really enjoy whether I want him there or not.

 

I also like that, so far, they've shown the genuine reactions from the campmates. Disdain from Babatundé, Charlene, Chris and others. Not quite the "Tory" show it's made out to be regardless of his casting...!

In my opinion, since that early opinion, Matt has been completely pleasant as a campmate. He's not said anything detestable or proven himself to be a bad campmate. However, I think he's very aware of the cameras and has played up to that, including when he asked for forgiveness, so I'm not sure how genuine he's actually being.

 

Charlene's elimination

It was not me who "automatically" suggested Charlene's elimination was due to race, it was shadow2009. Proof is below.

 

I am SHOCKED that a black female was the first person evicted from a UK reality TV show while the white guy responsible for thousands of Covid deaths is 4th favourite to win.

 

SHOCKED!

I did, however, disagree with your claim that this was about "character not race." The British public have a history of not connecting with strong, confident Black women. Allow me to educate you a little. The last time there was a person of colour in the I'm a Celebrity top 3 was in 2016, when Adam Thomas came third. Two women of colour have made the top 3 *ever*. There have been 21 series, therefore 63 celebrities finishing in "medal positions", and a whopping TWO of those are women of colour! It's the same in other reality shows, too. One Black woman has won Strictly Come Dancing (Alesha Dixon) across 19 series, only four more ever making it to the final (out of a possible 63), or five out of 64 if you include AJ Odudu who was forced to withdraw after making it through to the final. Taking a deeper dive, you can see Alexandra Burke, one of the Black women to make the Strictly final, was the highest scoring dancer on average points that series. She topped the leaderboard seven times, more than any other contestant, yet was in two dance-offs and faced an uphill battle with the public. If you don't believe this, there was an actual article about it from The Guardian written about it at the time, I'd highly recommend a read: https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/20...d-race-strictly

 

This is only the tip of the iceberg when it comes to unconscious bias in the UK but you can't stick your head in the sand and say it's not happening. I'm not saying race was ENTIRELY the reason Charlene was eliminated - I know people haven't liked her regardless - but I don't think you can outright ignore it as a factor, and this is what you seem to be ignoring / continually misinterpreting in my posts.

 

I hope this has made my stance clear because I don't really know how to make it any clearer.

I agree with Steve, if we're blaming Matt Hancock for all the covid deaths, then we might as well blame China as well. He made some real mistakes & broke his own rules, but a lot of the fault lies with other people as well, so agree with Steve that it is not quite as black and white. And he only resigned because he got caught, let's be honest about that! However, I do not agree with the claims that he is being bullied - I think it is totally fair for people to hold views about him and feel uncomfortable around him. When you're a sitting MP and being paid by the taxpayer, you have a duty.

 

It's clear as mud Matt has gone in there are a PR job, he will want to be Prime Minister one day, or at least hold one of the top jobs again. He's gone in there as a PR exercise to further his future political ambitions and it's worked. The Tories won't see him so much as a poisioned chalice and his approval ratings will increase again. I don't buy his sincerity at all, he's obviously got an ulterior motive and is trained beyind belief in towing a line.

I agree with Steve, if we're blaming Matt Hancock for all the covid deaths, then we might as well blame China as well. He made some real mistakes & broke his own rules, but a lot of the fault lies with other people as well, so agree with Steve that it is not quite as black and white. And he only resigned because he got caught, let's be honest about that! However, I do not agree with the claims that he is being bullied - I think it is totally fair for people to hold views about him and feel uncomfortable around him. When you're a sitting MP and being paid by the taxpayer, you have a duty.

 

It's clear as mud Matt has gone in there are a PR job, he will want to be Prime Minister one day, or at least hold one of the top jobs again. He's gone in there as a PR exercise to further his future political ambitions and it's worked. The Tories won't see him so much as a poisioned chalice and his approval ratings will increase again. I don't buy his sincerity at all, he's obviously got an ulterior motive and is trained beyind belief in towing a line.

 

Did you even read anything anyone said? Matt is being blamed for his actions and decisions that lead to more Covid deaths. He’s not being accused of causing the actual deaths or even creating the virus. For better or worse, he is the face of a lot of the hurt caused over the last few years and he should recognise that. I can’t accept anyone defending him, it’s way too raw.