If it weren't for LadBaby we'd have had:

 

2020 Mariah

2021 Ed/Elton

2022 Wham

2023 (likely) Wham

And we’d have also had

 

2018 Ava Max

2019 Stormzy/Ed/Burna Boy

Yeah, if it was like 3 or 4 weeks I could probably handle it and understand but it's 6 whole weeks of it being so all-consuming each year.

And I don't think it's fair for people.to dismiss criticisms of it off all the time but there you go!

 

Is it really even that representative anyway when it's completely passive listening for the most part - you can see this by playlists, and nearly all retail/shops/bars are playing it in the background via a streaming service.

No it's not that big of a deal in the grand scheme of things but it is frustrating when it gets worse and worse every year - the charts are something I enjoy and to have it taken away 5/6 weeks maybe more in the future every year is annoying.

I agree with Jack that it's just not really that pleasant. I get Joseph's point that it's more representative than not having it, but when there's so many rules to stop dominating of a certain album / theme / etc. (hence ACR, 3 song rule etc.) then I don't get how this doesn't fall into the same category. I would much rather they had this but weren't hypocritical about album bombs / older songs dominating, or alternatively they took the same view across the board when monopolies like this come up. Especially when most songs are getting the same order / positioning year-on-year with maybe higher peaks, it just feels like it's due to playlists and passive listening rather than accounting for song quality, customer need, cultural impact etc. and also just shows that there's a lack of really much out there that the same songs are constantly rinsed year-on-year. That might be what's happening but I have to say from a psychological point of view of how people operate and also from a chart fan's perspective, you can't say that it doesn't feel a bit Black Mirror / people on autopilot / a scarily telling example of capitalist influence and herd mentality within the general population.

But it's also a case that there is not more popular music genre than Christmas music - it spans all the demographics. Jack Harlow can never be as popular as Last Christmas, no matter how people tried.

But it's also a case that there is not more popular music genre than Christmas music - it spans all the demographics. Jack Harlow can never be as popular as Last Christmas, no matter how people tried.

 

Then why hasn't it been number one every year with streaming? Their proportion of the market has increased year-on-year exponentially so this argument that they were genuinely the most popular things each year isn't necessarily true. Yes, Christmas songs are present each year but it's arguable that their dominance culturally is a result of change in behaviour in both the public and from big corporations, rather than just the charts catching up to what's always happened. There's a definite growth in intensity to how people consume media compared to say even five years ago and it's quite scary.

Covid seemed to be a big turning point for this. It really amplified the idea of celebrating Christmas a lot earlier. In 2020 I thought it would be a one-off early boost because people were determined to wash away the horrible year and have something nice to look forward to.

 

But somehow it’s got bigger and bigger every year since and for the first time ever, this year it seemed like a lot of the country was in full on Christmas mode from 1st November (advertisers certainly were anyway). Each to their own, absolutely, and I love Christmas myself but it does feel like the build up is way too intense and extreme now and being pushed in a much more ubiquitous way, earlier than ever before, from all angles, and this is now reflected in the charts too.

 

Black Friday was another example, what used to be a one day shopping event now goes on for 10 days in some cases?? When does it stop being an event and start being just another excuse for a long sale? I can see why from a retailer’s point of view though that they are happy to get involved as early as possible! Many of them limp along all year and need a good couple of months at the end to stay afloat!

 

I think in all facets of life recently I've definitely felt a sense of overwhelm and saturation and the chart is a way that this can be monitored and reflected. I do wonder if things will slow down a bit at some point or whether people will just pile on and pile on, on top of what we already have.

I don't think it's fair to call advocating for the Christmas songs to be represented in the chart "weird". For me, whilst it's certainly not that exciting, I do think it's only fair that all songs get represented in more or less the same way. ACR is implemented and OCC are strict on its use for Xmas songs, too. A separate Christmas chart wouldn't feel fair, but I understand why people find them to be frustrating in the main chart too. There's no easy solution IMO.

 

I don't think a catalogue chart would change artists' attitudes to releasing in December, though. People would still be streaming them en masse, meaning there's precious few non-festive streams to fight over.

 

Tbh for me it's usually the most exciting time of the year. Mariah and Wham finally getting to #1 after all these years were some of the best chart moments in recent years (and, well, ever).

 

Streaming and the way it's factored into the charts is the issue that's really at the crux of this, not Christmas music, that's just a side effect.

Then why hasn't it been number one every year with streaming? Their proportion of the market has increased year-on-year exponentially so this argument that they were genuinely the most popular things each year isn't necessarily true. Yes, Christmas songs are present each year but it's arguable that their dominance culturally is a result of change in behaviour in both the public and from big corporations, rather than just the charts catching up to what's always happened. There's a definite growth in intensity to how people consume media compared to say even five years ago and it's quite scary.

Not saying you're wrong, but there are other factors too. I think until around 2018-19, the majority of people who streamed regularly were the younger generation, who were more likely to be interested in current chart music, and hence the Xmas songs were slightly less dominant. The older generation (my family included) would just put on an old Xmas compilation CD and listen to that, which obviously wasn't contributing to the chart.

 

Since 2020 especially, other demographics have adopted streaming as their primary method of listening to music, and this is reflected in the relative decrease in streams of what's currently popular, and increase in the classics which have more widespread appeal. Hence why songs like Mr Brightside, Riptide, Iris end up consistently in the year-end chart. And hence why Xmas songs absolutely dominate the chart in December, even on ACR.

A bit mad that people are saying "will they change it if Wham are Christmas Number 1 two years in a row?", when it has literally never been Christmas Number 1. There's every chance that Sam Ryder will nick it this year anyway, through Alexa manipulation. Even if it actually gets half of the streams that Wham gets.

Edited December 5, 20232 yr by TomJ1991

And I don't think it's fair for people.to dismiss criticisms of it off all the time but there you go!

I don't disagree! There's room for both viewpoints, I was just responding to the bit where approving of the Christmas takeover was called "weird" but I agree with you that both points of view can and should be posted without being dismissed.

 

Is it really even that representative anyway when it's completely passive listening for the most part - you can see this by playlists, and nearly all retail/shops/bars are playing it in the background via a streaming service.

No it's not that big of a deal in the grand scheme of things but it is frustrating when it gets worse and worse every year - the charts are something I enjoy and to have it taken away 5/6 weeks maybe more in the future every year is annoying.

Playlists have a huge impact on the chart regardless, and I don't think restaurants/bars make up more than a small percentage of the overall figure really. The playlists do seem to have a stronger influence at this time of year though, when people just put on a Christmas playlist and let it play through. I don't think there's a solution to it that isn't just "take Christmas songs out" though, so it's a difficult one.

Whether they do use them anyway is another question, but Spotify/Apple Music etc aren't allowed for "commercial use" such as in shops, restaurants and bars.

Whether they do use them anyway is another question, but Spotify/Apple Music etc aren't allowed for "commercial use" such as in shops, restaurants and bars.

Oh really?! I genuinely never knew this - but I definetly knew a few bars/restaurants that use them

Oh really?! I genuinely never knew this - but I definetly knew a few bars/restaurants that use them

 

It’s probably similar to pubs having to have a specific licence to show football from sky sports etc but there will be plenty who don’t follow the rules.

There’s some really interesting points here though regarding this especially the expansion of streaming and the ramping up of Christmas build up from 1st November nowadays. But Christmas has always been hugely commercial albeit it’s true it’s getting even worse. I’ve def noticed that more and more people put their Xmas tree up now long before 1st December whereas this was a minority before this. It’s an interesting discussion.

 

In regards to the charts one thing that could be done to stifle the early Xmas entries is making playlists visible only from 1st December rather than in your face on the first page of the store but that won’t stop the huge plays during December.

 

As Julian said though streams of Xmas songs would be massive even if there was a catalogue chart and that could still effect the current pop releases streams anyway.

I don’t think there’s any reason to do anything to curtail people listening to Christmas music. Let people have fun! :P

😅 Well quite but I didn’t say they should be stopped listening to them just make them less visible

no one is suggesting we stop people listening to Christmas music at Christmas time, what some of us would prefer is if all the old Christmas music (and otherwise old music) get moved to a separate catalogue chart so the official singles chart can continue to represent the hottest new music. Granted the chart would likely not have a whole lot of movement in the month of December taking out the Christmas music but it's something I could definitely see the OCC doing at some point especially if as the trends suggest Christmas music is going to end up dominating all of November as well as December.

Exactly, but actually not just for Xmas song, there should be a catalog chart for all old songs.

 

lol at the idea of only allowing Xmas playlists from December, that's almost Hitler-esque lol

actually I got Xmas playlist ads from Sept 1 :D