It is worth mentioning that Wendy Alexander's appointment as Transport Secretary means that, for the first time ever, every member of the Cabinet went to a state school.

Not a fan of Starmer's team running out yet another set of milestones, or missions, or whatever the f***, I get the idea of it but it does not sell well when he's done about 5 versions of these over the course of his leadership.

 

Starmer's speech rhetoric has toughened up though, but as ever you seem to have people convinced that this is the worst government in living memory if the QT audience and that recent poll is anything to go by but when you look at policy and drive to get things done it's the most positive I've ever felt about a government in my adult life. That said, if they don't make people feel better they're gonna be goners.

Story of government spending £1200 on two luxury folders - you can't make it up.

 

Labour really shooting themselves in the foot unfortunately. Regardless of whether they face an uphill battle anyway thanks to right-wing owned social media/bots, I feel that unless they really make dramatic improvements to people's lives in the next few years and change their tone/strategy they will be out fairly readily at the next election. :(

Damned if you get the expensive folders, damned for disrespecting the traditions of Britain's government if you don't.

 

The PMQ battles have been pretty one-sided so far this Parliament, Badenoch comes across entirely unserious and is constantly swatted away by Starmer, and it's always a relief when Ed Davey comes in with a much more thoughtful and considered critique of government policy - if he's going for the 'wish we made him LOTO' angle, he's doing it well.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/p...n-b2662590.html

 

What a twisted, demonic individual he is

Damned if you get the expensive folders, damned for disrespecting the traditions of Britain's government if you don't.

 

The PMQ battles have been pretty one-sided so far this Parliament, Badenoch comes across entirely unserious and is constantly swatted away by Starmer, and it's always a relief when Ed Davey comes in with a much more thoughtful and considered critique of government policy - if he's going for the 'wish we made him LOTO' angle, he's doing it well.

Unfortunately, news organisations rarely report anything from PMQs apart from the PM/LotO part. The largest third party in the Commons for over a century are rarely mentioned and are only on the main politics shows about once a month.

Labour following on from the winter fuel betrayal have now reneged on their promise to the WASPI women. I’m sure there will be people justifying or defending it but they spent years campaigning with them then abandoned them as soon as they got power. You can’t betray people in that way.

 

@1869519042035265962

It's never been a justified issue to campaign on, almost any other wrongful cause is more worthy than this, a handful of women with a lifetime of the best ever conditions for any generation yet didn't check their retirement packages for years getting wall-to-wall paper coverage because they're the only demographic that buys papers any more.

 

Neither this nor the winter fuel are betrayals in the slightest, just the elderly getting their own taste of the cuts that Tories have been doing to the rest of society for years.

 

would it be better if we all had benefits and retirement packages to live in luxury? yep, but that requires an economy running on full speed and investment opportunites can and should be the priority for spending; the one thing the government could really invest in is a competent PR team.

It's never been a justified issue to campaign on, almost any other wrongful cause is more worthy than this, a handful of women with a lifetime of the best ever conditions for any generation yet didn't check their retirement packages for years getting wall-to-wall paper coverage because they're the only demographic that buys papers any more.

 

Neither this nor the winter fuel are betrayals in the slightest, just the elderly getting their own taste of the cuts that Tories have been doing to the rest of society for years.

 

would it be better if we all had benefits and retirement packages to live in luxury? yep, but that requires an economy running on full speed and investment opportunites can and should be the priority for spending; the one thing the government could really invest in is a competent PR team.

 

Completely agree. Understand the winter fuel outrage slightly more, but this WASPI women piece is just noise. The State has formally apologised, but yeah paying out loads of money when we're already skint and nobody wants to pay any more tax seems like a brilliant idea. No Party mentioned it in their manifesto, sure Labour probably used the cause for political gain but like Iz said, I personally have little sympathy to people who lacked the common judgement to assume their State pension age without checking and doing due diligence. Meanwhile, we're likely to be working until we're 70 to recieve any such benefit.

Labour following on from the winter fuel betrayal have now reneged on their promise to the WASPI women. I’m sure there will be people justifying or defending it but they spent years campaigning with them then abandoned them as soon as they got power. You can’t betray people in that way.

 

@1869519042035265962

What promise? There was nothing in the manifesto. Almost all of the promise to pay compensation date from before Covid. Since then, the public finances have been far worse. The Tories suggested that they would pay compensation when in power, but made no provision to finance it. They did the same with the victims of the NHS blood scandal. In both cases, they left it for Labour to find the money to pay for it.

 

Victims of the NHS blood scandal were entirely blameless. They accepted donated blood in good faith. It is not their fault that many of them have died while others are living with life-altering conditions.

 

OTOH, as others have already said, changes to the pension age were widely reported at the time. When I started work, my state retirement age was 65. It is now 66 1/2. I never received a letter telling me this, but I am not demanding compensation. There are stories of women leaving their jobs at 58 expecting that they would be able to claim a state pension two years later. Did they really not notice other women of a similar age working beyond 60? The same papers now hammering Labour for not paying compensation are the same papers that also criticise governments for treating people like idiots by spending large sums of public money telling people what they should already know.

Feel like you guys are all missing the point. It’s pretty bizarre to say it’s not betrayal. When tons of people are voting for you because they think you’re on their side, you’ve taken photos with them, you’ve protested with them etc then it’s clearly betrayal to give them nothing. That’s why various Labour MPs including the one in the video are totally outraged by it too. The WASPI women certainly view it as betrayal. It wasn’t in the manifesto true but cutting the winter fuel allowance wasn’t in the manifesto either. They still did it. That’s two huge groups they’ve alienated. All apparently to make the economy better yet it’s going in the wrong direction. Inflation is up for the second month in a row and the economy retracted. The points about the actual issue are totally irrelevant. If they don’t deserve the money then why did so many Labour people support them for years? It wasn’t the newspapers that made Labour MP’s back them and protest with them. There is a very bureaucratic feel about this government. Starmer kind of fits Diane’s description. It’s devoid of human understanding. Betrayal is not something people forgive or forget.

 

I don't know what exactly they said to them but all the photographs I've seen of various Labour MPs going around 'promising justice' for the WASPI women don't seem like they ever promised them anything more than looking into their case to resolve it fairly, and now that they have, it's not sustainable for the minority who suffered losses to receive any pay outs. I love holding governments to account but I don't think I've ever tried to hold them to account for something they didn't promise.

 

Point made about the feeling that there is a betrayal, even though it is not - it's partly of their own making but much more prominently the media focusing on these paltry limited issues and not the genuinely quite effective governance the party has done so far - the plans set out from all departments look great and they are responding to issues far more quickly and well than the Tories ever did. Partly why I said the government needs a good PR team because they should have realised by now they're getting no free rides.

 

Especially given Reform, dark money funding coming from Musk, and maybe the Tories too, Labour does need to start the process of winning and keeping voters too - I am apprehensive that this government will go the way of Biden's, an astonishingly effective government utterly monstered by the media who ensure that they don't return to power and let someone far worse in.

Feel like you guys are all missing the point. It’s pretty bizarre to say it’s not betrayal. When tons of people are voting for you because they think you’re on their side, you’ve taken photos with them, you’ve protested with them etc then it’s clearly betrayal to give them nothing. That’s why various Labour MPs including the one in the video are totally outraged by it too. The WASPI women certainly view it as betrayal. It wasn’t in the manifesto true but cutting the winter fuel allowance wasn’t in the manifesto either. They still did it. That’s two huge groups they’ve alienated. All apparently to make the economy better yet it’s going in the wrong direction. Inflation is up for the second month in a row and the economy retracted. The points about the actual issue are totally irrelevant. If they don’t deserve the money then why did so many Labour people support them for years? It wasn’t the newspapers that made Labour MP’s back them and protest with them. There is a very bureaucratic feel about this government. Starmer kind of fits Diane’s description. It’s devoid of human understanding. Betrayal is not something people forgive or forget.

No, you're missing the point. How were the Tories proposing to pay for it?

Feel like you guys are all missing the point. It’s pretty bizarre to say it’s not betrayal. When tons of people are voting for you because they think you’re on their side, you’ve taken photos with them, you’ve protested with them etc then it’s clearly betrayal to give them nothing. That’s why various Labour MPs including the one in the video are totally outraged by it too. The WASPI women certainly view it as betrayal. It wasn’t in the manifesto true but cutting the winter fuel allowance wasn’t in the manifesto either. They still did it. That’s two huge groups they’ve alienated. All apparently to make the economy better yet it’s going in the wrong direction. Inflation is up for the second month in a row and the economy retracted. The points about the actual issue are totally irrelevant. If they don’t deserve the money then why did so many Labour people support them for years? It wasn’t the newspapers that made Labour MP’s back them and protest with them. There is a very bureaucratic feel about this government. Starmer kind of fits Diane’s description. It’s devoid of human understanding. Betrayal is not something people forgive or forget.

 

Yeah the economy is pretty rough, but it's hard to grow. Government borrowing is down so that's a positive. Issue is that the only way to grow the economy is to increase immigration, but Reform are telling you it's a bad idea, for them to eventually force through massive tax cuts for the 1% if they ever got in to power and tank the economy even further. Reeves is a good economist and she clearly knows what we have to do, but the media and certain powers won't let her do it, so we're in this annoying bubble at the moment. Labour's moves are the sensible ones, but I'd see how we're doing in 12 months time.

 

I think as Iz rightly calls out, the danger at the moment is Labour will probably do a good steady job but will have lost the people (natural for people to go against the Government). Probably the only saving Grace is Reform and the Tories hate each other and I can't see a deal being cut personally, think Farage and his backers think they have too much influence to make concessions and likewise, I can't see the Conservative Leadership wanting to basically be run by Reform.

No, you're missing the point. How were the Tories proposing to pay for it?

 

I don't think Liam is missing the point. The Tories weren't paying for it. But Labour were supporting them and in effect using them to their benefit for purposes of election - which again is nothing new and political parties of all scopes do this. But it isn't surprising for Labour to lose a lot of support of people that thought would help them in some way - even if nothing definitive was promised or mentioned in their manifesto. It's just unfortunately another thing for the media to try to use against the government.

 

I think most people aren't that sympathetic to the WASPI women in general as most people have already brought up about people should be more aware of retirement age etc and most working people will now have to wait until much older ages to retire so no sympathy there.

 

The #1 song on iTunes is Sir Starmer and the Granny Harmers - Freezing This Christmas which is not great.

 

I think overall things will change for the better over the years, but unforutnately this is the first labour government in power with social media being so prevelant as well as being right-wing skewed/owned. And it's fair to say there are likely a large portion of people who regret now voting for Labour and it's going to be an uphill battle for the next election. Especially now with Reform becoming dangerously more popular and with the potential backing/funding of the likes of Elon Musk...

 

If Labour had any sense they would try to push through a new voting system of proportional representation by the next election to prevent something like this happening.

A lot of the votes Labour got are in seats they will inevitably lose anyway so they have to make sure they keep the electoral coalition in their heartlands in place, the bell weather seats will always be self interested and return to the Tory fold after an electoral cycle!

I don't think Liam is missing the point. The Tories weren't paying for it. But Labour were supporting them and in effect using them to their benefit for purposes of election - which again is nothing new and political parties of all scopes do this. But it isn't surprising for Labour to lose a lot of support of people that thought would help them in some way - even if nothing definitive was promised or mentioned in their manifesto. It's just unfortunately another thing for the media to try to use against the government.

 

I think most people aren't that sympathetic to the WASPI women in general as most people have already brought up about people should be more aware of retirement age etc and most working people will now have to wait until much older ages to retire so no sympathy there.

 

The #1 song on iTunes is Sir Starmer and the Granny Harmers - Freezing This Christmas which is not great.

 

I think overall things will change for the better over the years, but unforutnately this is the first labour government in power with social media being so prevelant as well as being right-wing skewed/owned. And it's fair to say there are likely a large portion of people who regret now voting for Labour and it's going to be an uphill battle for the next election. Especially now with Reform becoming dangerously more popular and with the potential backing/funding of the likes of Elon Musk...

 

If Labour had any sense they would try to push through a new voting system of proportional representation by the next election to prevent something like this happening.

 

PR would just enable Reform though, it's what they want. The FPTP system has its merits, it will make it very very difficult for Reform to command a good majority.

I don't think Liam is missing the point. The Tories weren't paying for it. But Labour were supporting them and in effect using them to their benefit for purposes of election - which again is nothing new and political parties of all scopes do this. But it isn't surprising for Labour to lose a lot of support of people that thought would help them in some way - even if nothing definitive was promised or mentioned in their manifesto. It's just unfortunately another thing for the media to try to use against the government.

 

If Labour had any sense they would try to push through a new voting system of proportional representation by the next election to prevent something like this happening.

The Tories had given the impression that they supported paying compensation to Waspi women. They said nothing about how they would pay for it.

 

I would love to see Labour supporting PR. Their members support it, but the leadership is less enthusiastic when they can get a hefty majority with one-third of the vote. Yes, Farage's fascists would potentially get a larger presence is parliament. However, it is arguable that Farage gained popularity because his extreme views wee not represented in parliament due to FPTP. If they had been represented, their views on a range of subjects could have been exposed as extremist nonsense.

I would argue PR would be against the likes of Reform and Conservatives. Green/Lib Dems/Labour would likely form some sort of coalition government (with SNP also providing some notable support for specific legislation and such) and it would be nice to have parties actually have to work with each other. It would also prevent big swings in policy/government like we've seen. But one can only hope.

 

And like Suedehead mentioned, reform are in part doing so well because of people not feeling properly represented.

 

You would likely see new small parties and more independants under PR which would be welcome as well.

Edited December 21, 2024Dec 21 by Envoirment

I would argue PR would be against the likes of Reform and Conservatives. Green/Lib Dems/Labour would likely form some sort of coalition government (with SNP also providing some notable support for specific legislation and such) and it would be nice to have parties actually have to work with each other. It would also prevent big swings in policy/government like we've seen. But one can only hope.

 

And like Suedehead mentioned, reform are in part doing so well because of people not feeling properly represented.

 

You would likely see new small parties and more independants under PR which would be welcome as well.

 

Reform are campaigning for PR because it would benefit them massively. PR would benefit all parties outside the main two, as every vote matters and you'd see less tactical voting.

 

I can get why people want it and sure it may represent the people more, but it would be way easier for any extremist party to get in to power. FPTP was designed to keep extremism at bay.