59 minutes ago, T Boy said:

The councillors wife you referred too though didn’t have ‘hardly any Facebook friends’ and had a history of pretty racist posts. She also posted at a time where right wing thugs around the country were rioting and setting fire to hotels containing immigrants. She saw this happening and then openly encouraged it. She also plead guilty.

After that Bob Vylan performance, I don’t recall the same thing happening with Jewish people being the target. I might be misremembering but it felt like the media was just full of people calling the band antisemitic because they said they opposed genocide and wanted the Israeli military to end.

I mean it was kind of callous of them to say it in a way that could so easily be misconstrued but don’t even try to equalise the two things. They’re not the same.

Two wrongs don’t make a right, both were out of order imho. While the dinghy issue is a major problem in this country imho violence is not the answer, I have no issue with her suffering consequences for what she said. I have more of an issue with Bob Vylan being free of consequences for what he said. As a half jewish person myself I believe a lot of people tar all Jewish people with the same brush for some of the actions of the IDF same way as a lot of people tar all muslim people with the same brush for the actions of islamic terrorists.

3 minutes ago, What Lies Beneath said:

Two wrongs don’t make a right, both were out of order imho. While the dinghy issue is a major problem in this country imho violence is not the answer, I have no issue with her suffering consequences for what she said. I have more of an issue with Bob Vylan being free of consequences for what he said. As a half jewish person myself I believe a lot of people tar all Jewish people with the same brush for some of the actions of the IDF same way as a lot of people tar all muslim people with the same brush for the actions of islamic terrorists.

We can’t be responsible for connections other people make. The IDF were explicitly mentioned in what was said, Israel wasn’t and nor were Jews in general. Also, as stated, I don’t think there were significant consequences for anyone as a direct result of what was said, unlike the case with Lucy Connolly.

3 minutes ago, T Boy said:

We can’t be responsible for connections other people make. The IDF were explicitly mentioned in what was said, Israel wasn’t and nor were Jews in general. Also, as stated, I don’t think there were significant consequences for anyone as a direct result of what was said, unlike the case with Lucy Connolly.

The fact that nothing happened to any Jewish people because of what he said should not be a defence imho, same as the fact no one burned down a hotel because of what Lucy Connolly said should be. Both fanned the flames of hate in an unhelpful way. Am not suggesting he get 2.5 years in jail but I find it astonishing that he got off scot free

2 minutes ago, What Lies Beneath said:

The fact that nothing happened to any Jewish people because of what he said should not be a defence imho, same as the fact no one burned down a hotel because of what Lucy Connolly said should be. Both fanned the flames of hate in an unhelpful way. Am not suggesting he get 2.5 years in jail but I find it astonishing that he got off scot free

As they revealed today, for the crime they were being investigate for the most they’d have received was a £1,000 fine. Jail time was never on the table.

You keep comparing apples with oranges.

20 minutes ago, T Boy said:

As they revealed today, for the crime they were being investigate for the most they’d have received was a £1,000 fine. Jail time was never on the table.

You keep comparing apples with oranges.

We saw the other day with the terrible events on Bondi Beach what happens when anti jew rhetoric is allowed to take hold, the attackers were Pakistani, had no skin in the game re the conflict between the IDF and Hamas, they just saw a bunch of jewish people and thought they were fair game because of what has happened in Gaza

1 minute ago, What Lies Beneath said:

We saw the other day with the terrible events on Bondi Beach what happens when anti jew rhetoric is allowed to take hold, the attackers were Pakistani, had no skin in the game re the conflict between the IDF and Hamas, they just saw a bunch of jewish people and thought they were fair game because of what has happened in Gaza

Not related to Bob Vylan though.

2 minutes ago, T Boy said:

Not related to Bob Vylan though.

Is it completely though? Australia is similar to UK in many ways, a civilised largely peaceful country where guns are not widely available, what is to say something won’t happen here one day at a Jewish celebration? if it happens it may not be directly the fault of Bob Vylan but he is part of the problem, the dehumanisation of jews. Even if his words were not aimed at all jews it is still extremely unhelpful

2 minutes ago, What Lies Beneath said:

Is it completely though? Australia is similar to UK in many ways, a civilised largely peaceful country where guns are not widely available, what is to say something won’t happen here one day at a Jewish celebration? if it happens it may not be directly the fault of Bob Vylan but he is part of the problem, the dehumanisation of jews. Even if his words were not aimed at all jews it is still extremely unhelpful

You answered the question yourself, there’s no direct link. There are many issues surrounding this topic and if Bob Vylan are a problem, they are only a tiny part of it.

The larger issue is the genocide still going on in Palestine thanks to the IDF. Do you condemn that?

Edited December 26, 2025Dec 26 by T Boy

1 minute ago, T Boy said:

You answered the question yourself, there’s no direct link. There are many issues surrounding this topic and if Bob Vylan are a problem, they are only a tiny part of it.

The larger issue is the genocide still going on in Palestine. Do you condemn that?

I condemn strongly any criminal acts by either party yes. Hamas attacked a music festival full of young people having the time of their lives, as well as murders in 4 figures there was mass rapes of thousands of Israeli females, the sight of the body of a naked teenage Israeli girl being slowly driven through the streets of Gaza on the back of a truck while citizens of Gaza spat on her body was perhaps the most sickening thing I have ever seen. The reaction of the IDF has in hindsight been disproportionate and any war crimes of the IDF should be condemned in the strongest of terms and dealt with under international law. But none of this would be happening if Hamas hadn’t done what they did that day

Then we must remember that Hamas are not all people suffering in Palestine just as the IDF don’t represent all of Israel or all Jewish people.

Bob Vylan were misguided in what was said, but there wasn’t any attempt to goad people into harming Jews and that has been established since then as well. Attacks on Jewish people are not ok at all but Bob Vylan will have had very little to do with recent atrocities.

Lucy Connolly, however, was more than happy to see far right thugs torch hotels containing innocent immigrants. Since she has left prison she has shown no remorse whatsoever.

To compare Bob Vylan to Lucy Connolly is comparing apples to oranges which is what you did.

The thing that annoys me most is the media announced that Vylans charges were dropped in one of them extras with multiple stories at once near the end of the bulletins (in nearly all the main news providers) while last June this was headline news.

One thing I would add to the discussion above is that the IDF are not Jewish people they are the army of the government of Israel and Hamas are not all Palestinian people.

But maybe some responsibility should be shone upon the current right wing Israeli government who are represented by some extreme Zionist ministers who look at Israel as a Jewish state for Jewish people which is absolutely the problem.

Edited December 26, 2025Dec 26 by Steve201

10 hours ago, Steve201 said:

One thing I would add to the discussion above is that the IDF are not Jewish people they are the army of the government of Israel and Hamas are not all Palestinian people.

It's also worth adding that the IDF is not comprised only of those from the Jewish faith. Jews are the majority but the force also contains Druze, Bedouin, Arabs and Christians as both volunteer and conscripted males

14 hours ago, What Lies Beneath said:

I condemn strongly any criminal acts by either party yes. Hamas attacked a music festival full of young people having the time of their lives, as well as murders in 4 figures there was mass rapes of thousands of Israeli females, the sight of the body of a naked teenage Israeli girl being slowly driven through the streets of Gaza on the back of a truck while citizens of Gaza spat on her body was perhaps the most sickening thing I have ever seen. The reaction of the IDF has in hindsight been disproportionate and any war crimes of the IDF should be condemned in the strongest of terms and dealt with under international law. But none of this would be happening if Hamas hadn’t done what they did that day

Same old tired feigned ‘I’m condemning both sides, but …’ argument in the same old witch hunt created purely to cause a divide between the population. All while the governments of US, UK, Russia and Israel continue to destroy their own countries from within as well as the rest of the world.

But let’s blame Bob Vylan for all that instead, they are the real problem.

Edited December 27, 2025Dec 27 by pavi

10 hours ago, pavi said:

Same old tired feigned ‘I’m condemning both sides, but …’ argument in the same old witch hunt created purely to cause a divide between the population. All while the governments of US, UK, Russia and Israel continue to destroy their own countries from within as well as the rest of the world.

But let’s blame Bob Vylan for all that instead, they are the real problem.

If Hamas had not committed a massacre at a music festival and an orgy of rape there would have been no Gaza conflict last couple of years end of, the Israeli response could be considered disproportionate regarding some aspects of the response but Hamas started it, poke a lion enough times you can’t expect the lion not to attack you, play stupid games win stupid prizes as the saying goes. That does not mean I approve of blocking aid to starving Palestinian kids etc, course I don’t, some of the Israeli responses have been unacceptable, but Hamas have also milked the conflict for their own purposes. They turned down multiple ceasefire offers because Israel demanded the release of every hostage, it was only when President Trump threatened to send USA forces into Gaza alongside the IDF that Hamas agreed to a ceasefire and hostage release.

46 minutes ago, What Lies Beneath said:

poke a lion enough times you can’t expect the lion not to attack you,

This exact comment could be levelled at Israel. Continue to oppress and subjugate the Palestinians and you can't expect them (or in this case Hamas) not to retaliate.

Why is that so hard to understand?

2 hours ago, What Lies Beneath said:

If Hamas had not committed a massacre at a music festival and an orgy of rape there would have been no Gaza conflict last couple of years end of, the Israeli response could be considered disproportionate regarding some aspects of the response but Hamas started it, poke a lion enough times you can’t expect the lion not to attack you, play stupid games win stupid prizes as the saying goes. That does not mean I approve of blocking aid to starving Palestinian kids etc, course I don’t, some of the Israeli responses have been unacceptable, but Hamas have also milked the conflict for their own purposes. They turned down multiple ceasefire offers because Israel demanded the release of every hostage, it was only when President Trump threatened to send USA forces into Gaza alongside the IDF that Hamas agreed to a ceasefire and hostage release.

I just fail to understand why you state this conflict started on 7th Oct or maybe it suits your narrative.

9 hours ago, Severin said:

This exact comment could be levelled at Israel. Continue to oppress and subjugate the Palestinians and you can't expect them (or in this case Hamas) not to retaliate.

Why is that so hard to understand?

There has been conflicts and skirmishes between Israel and the Palestinians for decades yes, but nothing on this scale, this was a whole new level compared with anything seen previously, it will not have happened but for an orgy of killing and raping at that music festival

1 hour ago, What Lies Beneath said:

There has been conflicts and skirmishes between Israel and the Palestinians for decades yes, but nothing on this scale, this was a whole new level compared with anything seen previously, it will not have happened but for an orgy of killing and raping at that music festival

I'm sorry but this is incredibly naive.

There have been about 15 previous Israeli-Gaza wars since the state existed. Each time Israel has reacted with disproportionate force and tightened the noose around Gaza. All whilst continuing to steal other lands in the West Bank, Golan Heights etc.

What Hamas did on Oct 7th was abhorrent but inevitable.

How long do you allow someone to slowly throttle you before you punch them hard?

Very uncomfortable way you are describing the tragedy on October 7th 2023, ‘What Lies Beneath’.

And certainly no indication you care one bit about the mass murder the IDF have been carrying out against the Palestinian people many times over since that day, nor as said, the historic atrocities in the conflict. Which Bob Vylan was right to call out.

36 minutes ago, Severin said:

I'm sorry but this is incredibly naive.

There have been about 15 previous Israeli-Gaza wars since the state existed. Each time Israel has reacted with disproportionate force and tightened the noose around Gaza. All whilst continuing to steal other lands in the West Bank, Golan Heights etc.

What Hamas did on Oct 7th was abhorrent but inevitable.

How long do you allow someone to slowly throttle you before you punch them hard?

What was Israel meant to do? terrorists came in on gliders and massacred 1200 of its citizens at a music festival, carried out countless rapes and took multiple hostages. Are Israel expected to just turn the other cheek and carry on as business as usual? no country would do that. Some of the acts Israel has committed in Gaza are clearly unacceptable and in violation of international law but Israel couldn’t sit there and do nothing and let Hamas get away with what they did

Hamas have been a thorn in Israel’s side for decades, the can can’t keep getting kicked down the road and the problem dealt with again years later, Hamas needed removing once and for all. Have Israel been disproportionate at times in their mission to eliminate all Hamas terrorists? absolutely, was it right to go into Gaza and eliminate Hamas terrorists once and for all? 100% yes