http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7143248.stm

 

Judge releases stoning death boys

 

 

Five boys aged 12 to 14 who were jailed for two years each for killing a man as he played cricket have had their manslaughter convictions overturned.

Ernest Norton, 67, was pelted with stones and rocks while playing cricket with his 17-year-old son James at a leisure centre in south-east London.

 

Two of the stones hit Mr Norton on his head and he suffered a heart attack.

 

Lord Justice Gage at the Court of Appeal ordered the boys to be released and said reasons would be given later.

 

Violent disorder

 

The five boys, one of whom was just 10 at the time, were convicted at the Old Bailey of manslaughter and violent disorder in August.

 

The youngest, now 12, and his brother, 13, as well as three other boys, all aged 14, were given sentences in youth detention on October 19.

 

At a hearing before the appeal judges on Thursday Mark Wall QC, challenging the safety of the manslaughter convictions, argued that it could not be established which of the allegedly "unlawful or dangerous" actions, if any of them, had contributed to Mr Norton's heart attack.

 

Lord Gage, at the end of the legal argument, announced that the court was allowing the appeals against conviction.

 

The boys, who cannot be named for legal reasons, have been bailed and their sentences for violent disorder offences will be considered by a trial judge at the Old Bailey.

 

Lord Gage said: "Whatever the result of the appeals, this was a real tragedy for the family and, on behalf of us all, I express our sincere sympathy to Mrs Norton and her family."

 

Det Insp Clive Heys, who led the investigation, said Mr Norton's widow, Linda, was "very very upset" at the outcome.

 

 

:arrr: :arrr: :arrr: :arrr: :arrr: :arrr: :arrr:

Edited December 13, 200717 yr by Jupiter9

....... getting away with murder... yet speeding convictions rise, nice to see the law has its priorities sorted <_<

Disgraceful :angry:

 

In a few year's we shouldnt bother going the Police. I reckon it's time for a group of Vigilate's too dispel our own form of Justice :angry:

The law is an ass, all down to the f***in Social Worker's and Lawyer's :angry:

I've just heard about this on the radio, and I am disgusted.

 

They have served less than two months on remand, but have been released, because it is not clear which stone thrown by which one of the five caused the brain trauma that caused the heart attack.

 

This is not justice, but in an age of politically correctness & social workers woolly minded liberalism, screw the victim and his family and think about the guilty poor children who threw these stones. Hearing some social worker on Radio 5 Live justifying their release and going on about the great deal of trauma these children have suffered........ doesn't it make you feel sorry for them..... well it certainly does not make me feel sorry for them, it makes me angry that their is no justice to the family who don't have a father/husband this Christmas because of the action of these "poor" children. :angry:

 

In an age of ever growing violence and vandalism at school by children attacking teachers, etc isn't time people stopped looking for excuses for the behaviour of the minority at the expense of the innocent majority and started to take action against these people who step outside of the law?

 

In 21st Century Britain the biggest threat to our culture is not from Islamic Fundamentalists, but it is from the woolly minded middle class Liberal toss pots who think just because they've been to University (usually an old Polytechnic) and studied a degree in Sociology or Law that they think this country should live in a PC World (and I'm not talking about the computer store) where we should be sympathetic to all perpetrators of wrong doings because somewhere along the line it is not their thought, ignoring the fact that some people are born plain lazy, vindictive or evil. Whilst completely disregarding the simple facts that there is (or damn well should be) good and bad, right and wrong irrespective of sex(uality), age, skin colour, religion, etc.

I really don't understand what the appeal judges are saying here. Are they saying it can't be manslaughter because it's impossible to show that the boys' actions are what caused the victim's fatal heart attack? :blink:

 

So a gang armed with sticks, stones, and rocks verbally abuses and spits on a pensioner. They then throw rocks at him, 2 of which hit him on the head, one on the temple, one shattering his jaw in several places. He collapses and suffers a heart attack.

 

And there is no causal link there? Get real. The bast*rds should have been convicted of murder, never mind manslaughter. :arrr:

 

And I agree with T.I.P. You would never in a million years get anyone from a working class background willing to defend these young thugs. The only people daft enough to fall for the sob stories are middle class, lily livered liberals who have grown up never having had to deal with the scourge of thuggery. It must be great living in your ivory tower isolated from 'real life'.

 

And another thing, I would lock up the so called 'parents' too. Where were they when their degenerate offspring were roaming the streets assaulting pensioners?

 

Unbelievable. :angry:

It seems you get sent down for the most trivial stuff, but literally get away with murder. Welcome to the UK 2007. :angry:

This is absolutely disgusting :arrr: There always seems to be excuses these days. They were responsible for Mr Norton's death, pure and simple, and should be punished for it!

What an absolute fukkin' JOKE!! Satpal Ram spends fukkin' YEARS in prison for defending his life against a pair of knife-wielding nazi scum who went into his shop with the express purpose of killing him, and these evil little b/astards get off scott-free pretty much with stoning an old guy to death... <_<

 

They might not have "meant" to kill him (although I would dispute that), but isn't that why we have the whole "manslaughter" thing in the first place...? By my understanding, these vile little brats had been terrorising their neighbourhood for ages and were pretty much a gang of thugs getting up to all sorts..

 

This sort of thing is EXACTLY what I was getting at in the thread about the Headmaster having his authority to expel pupils usurped... Ultimately this is the result of a lack of discipline and responsibility at school and at home. Time to bring back caning and the old "Headmaster Ritual" if you ask me, and give parents back the right to smack their children too.. Kids should not have adult rights because they've not fully developed the psychological capabilities to act responsibly within those parameters, kids are all about the "id" or the "pleasure principle" as Freud would have it. A fundamental lack of respect in society exists because whole generations are growing up without established boundaries of what is and what isn't acceptable behaviour.. The old adage of "get them while they're young" holds true, harsh-but-fair discipline and the setting of boundaries at an early age will likely lead to creating a responsible member of society, but there HAS to be the "ultimate sanction" there - ie corporal punishment or a smacking - in the background...

 

Sure, you get exceptions, but it surely has to be better than what we have now....

that they think this country should live in a PC World (and I'm not talking about the computer store)

just lock all the evil c**ts in PC World with all the staff.

 

 

serve the bast*rds right for treating their customers like something they trod in.

Nothing really surprises me about our Justice System anymore.

 

We should march up and down the streets in protest, and demand to get someone to take over and sort this mess out that we call our justice system!

 

 

no doubt we'd go 2 prison for breach of the peace :rolleyes:

Your probably right there actually.

We should march up and down the streets in protest, and demand to get someone to take over and sort this mess out that we call our justice system!

 

Nah, if we did that we'd probably get arrested for "anti social behaviour"....

 

Straight up - because of how the law is worded (accident or design, you decide... -_- ) legit demos and protests could actually conceivably fall foul of the anti-social behaviour laws which are supposed to be for stopping gangs of kids and yobs hanging round street corners terrorising people....

We have no right to slag off Australia when there are so many f*** ups and r*t**** running our "justice" system

 

Can't understand the f***ing reasoning behind this

 

If 4 men rob a bank at gunpoint and shoot the cashier they ALL get charged with murder regardless of who fired the f***ing bullet so how does that not work in this case ???

 

Its the same bloody bearded sandal wearing lentil eating nutjobs behind this decision as it is behind banning xmas celebrations incase it offends muslims and so on

 

If my family were not so important to me I would be out this country long time ago by now its getting worse and fukkin worse

Nah, if we did that we'd probably get arrested for "anti social behaviour"....

 

Straight up - because of how the law is worded (accident or design, you decide... -_- ) legit demos and protests could actually conceivably fall foul of the anti-social behaviour laws which are supposed to be for stopping gangs of kids and yobs hanging round street corners terrorising people....

 

 

That's what they did back in the day. We are British Citizens we should have some say, we live here FFS!

In 21st Century Britain the biggest threat to our culture is not from Islamic Fundamentalists, but it is from the woolly minded middle class Liberal toss pots who think just because they've been to University (usually an old Polytechnic) and studied a degree in Sociology or Law that they think this country should live in a PC World (and I'm not talking about the computer store) where we should be sympathetic to all perpetrators of wrong doings because somewhere along the line it is not their thought, ignoring the fact that some people are born plain lazy, vindictive or evil. Whilst completely disregarding the simple facts that there is (or damn well should be) good and bad, right and wrong irrespective of sex(uality), age, skin colour, religion, etc.

 

spot on m8 :)

In 21st Century Britain the biggest threat to our culture is not from Islamic Fundamentalists, but it is from the woolly minded middle class Liberal toss pots who think just because they've been to University (usually an old Polytechnic) and studied a degree in Sociology or Law that they think this country should live in a PC World (and I'm not talking about the computer store) where we should be sympathetic to all perpetrators of wrong doings because somewhere along the line it is not their thought, ignoring the fact that some people are born plain lazy, vindictive or evil. Whilst completely disregarding the simple facts that there is (or damn well should be) good and bad, right and wrong irrespective of sex(uality), age, skin colour, religion, etc.

 

I dont go along with the "born bad" arguement at all, people are products of their environment, their upbringing, at least to a pretty significant degree anyway.. "Nature Vs Nurture" is the age old debate, chances are if their parents did actually give a damn and disciplined the little b/astards they wouldn't be doing this sh!t... In just about every case you hear of a Serial Killer you will invariably find a history of abuse (and I realise that I have argued for discipline, but discipline is not the same as abuse, discipline is about setting boundaries for acceptable behaviour, whereas abuse is purely sadistic and done for its own sake..) or neglect, that's not to excuse their actions as adults though, simply to understand it and help with profiling and such in order to recognise the behaviour.... Not every case is as clear cut and so obvious as this one is, the case of Thomson and Venables being one such case where there were definite ambiguities and shades of grey....

I dont go along with the "born bad" arguement at all, people are products of their environment, their upbringing,

 

Not every case is as clear cut and so obvious as this one is, the case of Thomson and Venables being one such case where there were definite ambiguities and shades of grey....

 

surely that contradicts itself?...

 

oh i think people are 'born bad' aswell as some who are bad through circumstances. everyone is born with inherant traits that manifest themselves, or not, depending upon their environment. in short... some of the cards you are dealt with never get played.

I hate our justice system and this just disgraces me even more

A couple of years back in our area, a drink driver killed a 3 year old, he got 3 months in prison. It's just disgusting.

surely that contradicts itself?...

 

Not at all, Thomson and Venables came from a quite horrendous environment of neglect and abuse, they were basically left by their so-called "parents" to go "feral", and the death of James Bulger was the result.. Parental actions or inactions can never be underestimated in the creation of criminals or sociopaths.. Sorry, I just dont believe in a "devil seed" or some bullsh!t like that, that sort of thing is just totally reductive and simplistic, and is a throwback to the days of the old religious "he has the devil in him/original sin" mentality and other Catholic bullsh!"t designed to make us all feel guilty merely for being fukkin' BORN... <_< ; and it actually takes away responsibility from parents - "Oh, he was just born that way, not our fault, oh no.....". Bollocks mate, you're letting bad parents and bad parenting off the hook when you make that sort of "born bad" argument.... How your parents raise you in your formative years (ages 0-5) determines who you will become. This is why discipline, love and 'being there' is essential....

 

Sorry mate, but the "born bad" argument sound too close to the Catholic Church's destructive concept of "original sin" (ie, that we're all 'born sinners') for my liking, which I reject utterly....