A few frequently asked questions/given statements answered here -_-

 

Q: Is it true that the UK will never win Eurovision again, even if we sent <insert massive artist here>? Is it because Europe hates us?

 

A: No, it isn't true. For a start, nobody can predict the future, and chances are anybody who gives this statement is going off the fact that we haven't won with anything we've sent since 2003 (inclusive), when we infamously came last with nul points. Each track we've sent since then has had obvious reasons for failure, and people would do well to remember that only in 2002 we came 3rd with a unique track with obvious appeal! Also note that we haven't sent an internationally notable artist since 1997 - when we won! - so chances are we WOULD do well if we sent <insert massive artist here>. To quote:

 

We would do damn fine if we sent a good song. What people seem to forget is that our recent run of $h!t results - which is a mere five years - has comprised of absolute $h!t songs. I mean would any of you who are blaming it on politics ever DREAM of voting for a tuneless duo, bland male with a guitar, clone of just about every song from the previous year, paedoish old bloke dancing round with a load of school girls or a teen bubblegum pop act? No, and neither will the rest of Europe.

 

2003 - Jemini - Anybody who blames this nul points on politics is frankly insane. The live performance was diabolical and out of tune, and we must remember that people vote for a song to win, not for a song to lose - does anybody seriously think this performance would have won even if the Iraq War hadn't happened?

2004 - James Fox - A bland, inoffensive guitar tune, which gave us our best result in the last five years. Didn't deserve top 10, but realistically the one most deserving of anything outside the bottom 5 - which is what it got.

2005 - Javine - An ethnic up-tempo track, which was a clone of everything that had been sent the year before. Would've done well had we sent it the year before, but as things were, several things went against Javine: she performed from the infamous 2nd position, in which you need something that really stands out to do well - she didn't, and she gave a mediocre performance to boot. Anybody saying this had obvious Balkan appeal should listen to the song again - the songs influences are mainly Arabic, and we got points from Turkey so there should be no complaints!

2006 - Daz Sampson - A track which was definitely an acquired taste. Upon first listen this track is ridiculously cringeworthy - therefore the poor result should come as no surprise, given that most of Europe only heard the song once. The rather paedophilic undertones didn't help either.

2007 - Scooch - Did anybody seriously expect this to win? This probably wouldn't have even made the top 10 even at the peak of bubblegum pop in Eurovision, a decade too late. We were also sandwiched between the other two big novelty tracks that night - Romania and Ukraine - meaning we just blended in, and the British public foolishly spurned the chance to send something which would've stood out, i.e. a power ballad, provided by Cyndi. -_-

2008 - Andy Abraham - DULL, DULL, DULL. This very dated slice of 70s soul-pop was claimed by pretty much every UK ESC fan to be unmemorable, so again, it should come as no surprise that it failed from the 2nd performing slot. Not much from this year's NF would've done particularly well given the circumstances - LoveShy proved that they couldn't perform well live, but had they been able to this could've followed in Serebro's footsteps with a better performing position...Michelle Gayle and The Revelations rather sadly wouldn't have been able to cut the mustard :(

 

Q: Why didn't Scooch win in 2007? That sort of music was perfect for Eurovision!

 

A: No, it isn't. Cheesy bubblegum pop hasn't done well at Eurovision since roughly 1999, around the same time Scooch were originally from. Listen to the other tracks from that year - are any of them cheesy bubblegum pop? (No, Verka DOESN'T count as bubblegum pop :P) Put simply, until the British public realises that the rest of Europe does well because they send modern pop or something original, or even some of their biggest stars, we won't do well, and frankly shouldn't expect to win, let alone with a track that belonged in the last milennium!

 

Q: Is it true that only Eastern European countries will win from now on? They're always voting for each other!

 

A: Let's take a look at a brief scenario. Say Ireland send U2 next year. Would you call it neighbourly voting if we gave Ireland 12? Of course you wouldn't! U2 are huge in the UK and representative of the sort of music that is popular in our region. This is similar to what happens in Eastern Europe. Take Serbia's winning entry from last year for example - they sent Marija Serifovic, a Serbian artist who is very popular in the Balkans, who sang an ethnically influenced ballad - of the type that is very popular in the Balkans. This is typical for a Balkan entry - hence why Balkan countries tend to do well. Also remember that the rest of Europe generally gave high points to Serbia, so the song had general appeal and won as a result of that - no country (except possibly Russia) will ever win off neighbourly voting alone, and even Russia haven't done so yet, so it shows that neighbourly voting, while it may be a factor which increases points, will not be a winning factor, and as the position a country is in no longer matters due to the new semi-final rules in which only the winner and the Big 4 prequalify for the next year's contest, this no longer matters. And before you start moaning about neighbourly voting, do you remember which two countries gave the UK their only points last year? Ireland and Malta, both countries with very strong ties with the UK, so it would appear that Western Europe itself practices the worst kind of neighbourly voting, and would instead prefer to blame their relative lack of success upon 'political' reasons as opposed to a lack of effort in song selection!

 

Q: Is it true that Russia will turn off the oil to Eastern European countries if they don't vote for them and make them the winners every year?

 

A: Well, for a start Russia didn't win a contest until 2008 - something to think about there, seeing as they've been sending oil around the world for a good few decades. Also, Russia haven't turned off the oil when they haven't done well - Russia missed the top ten in 2004 and 2005 with some pretty awful scores. Furthermore, I doubt Putin would be able to give the excuse of neighbours not voting for them in Eurovision to break contracts with the countries they export oil to - let's not forget that oil is a big source of profit for Russia, a country that still has many financial and social problems, although is swiftly becoming a rising economic power. No, to find Russia's popularity you have to look at their entries for the past couple of years - in 2006 and 2008 they sent Dima Bilan, an artist massively popular throughout not just Eastern, but quite a lot of Europe (and the fact that he received many points from countries not in Eastern Europe just compounds this point), having won MTV Awards and such with his unique brand of dark and modern pop which wouldn't sound out of place in the UK charts were it not for his very prominent Russian accent. In 2007 Russia sent Serebro, a three-piece girl group compared to Girls Aloud by many, sending 'Song #1', a credible modern pop song that, in the words of a member on this forum, 'Girls Aloud would kill to cover' (although at a time when the group's fortunes weren't quite as good as they are now it must be remembered before the fanboys start firebombing this thread :P). Sometimes it's better to actually examine the songs that Eastern European countries send - it's very rare that one succeeds without actually having a degree of quality behind it!

 

Q: If we fail with Andrew Lloyd-Webber's song this year, does that mean we'll never win Eurovision again?

 

A: No, not quite. As I've said before, all you need is the right song - Finland probably didn't think they'd win until 2006, and Portugal have been trying and failing since the 1960s but they still soldier on! But, to deal with the latent ALW point, while we may be trying a lot harder this year than before, does recruiting Andrew Lloyd-Webber really seem like a logical move after a Timbaland-associate production won in 2008? No, not particularly. Additionally, many reviews of the song have commented on the style of the song being very reminiscent of an X-Factor winning song - which will be a rather amusing test to see if these things are bought for an actual appreciation for the song or just the artist! :lol: If it doesn't do particularly well, people ought not be surprised - we're trying harder than normal, granted, but the UK can do much better, and if we fail to go top ten with Jade this year a strong case can be made of the song letting us down than possible anti-Western bias - that will have to wait until we actually send some killer modern pop to the contest, which the UK is hardly in short supply of! Additionally though, despite many commentators claiming that they love Jade but not the song (to date anyway, with the studio version yet to be released), it must be remembered that juries have been re-incorporated into the voting - so don't lose hope, we could end up with our best result since 2002! ^_^

 

This will be updated over the coming months as we start to get more views in the lead-up to ESC 2009 :smoke:

Some valid points, but with all due respect, I fail to see how one person's opinion (however close to reality it may be), can be passed off as an undisputed answer to a question as it is here. *Shrugs*

Some valid points, but with all due respect, I fail to see how one person's opinion (however close to reality it may be), can be passed off as an undisputed answer to a question as it is here. *Shrugs*

While there may be some opinion in there, the main gist of the arguments are to combat several common misconceptions of the contest and our participation in it - for example, it can't be passed off as fact that we'll never win again even if we send someone famous, as has happened, and it can't be passed off that Scooch was 'typical Eurovision fare', again a common argument - the above statements are more counter-arguments towards anybody who comes here just with a mind towards making ill-educated comments regarding whether we'll ever win again or whether we deserved to win - basically an aversion to these statements and a warning that any such arguments will be dismissed unless they have some pretty strong points to back up their arguments. ^_^

interesting reading...I agree with most of the points here and if it was all about people hating the UK then that would not explain how we did well in the JESC a couple of times after the Iraq war

 

political voting IS clearly evident but only for the songs getting some of the lower points I would say...it has never affected who the winner is...of course if there are no songs that REALLY stand out for some voters then perhaps they vote for their neighbour so some countries like Croatia and Macedonia regularly get lots of 6 and 7 points but rarely 10's and 12's...

Think about it this way though. And bear with me. Political / neighbourly / friendly / diaspora voting whatever you want to call it does exist, and while it affects countries lower down, it obviously affects countries higher up. You can't have it one way without the other.

 

It has been said that a country cannot win based purely on "friendly" votes, which is true. However, it is extremely hard for a country to win without any at all.

 

I will use two BJSC fictional countries as examples so as not to cause irrelevant debate. Take Ashton and Rontvia. Ashton is surrounded by neighbours, all of whom have heard of its act who is famous in their countries. It also has alot of population emmigrating to other countries around Europe. Annually it will recieve around 60 points regardless of the quality of the song, and before you even start to take it into account. Whereas Rontvia doesn't have any of these going for it, and has only one "friend" who will give it points. Annually it will recieve about 10 "friendly" points not based on the song.

 

Just a simple illustration to show how it is not even, and even if the rest of Europe like Rontvia's song, Ashton already has a strong head start, and no matter where they finish on the leader board, Rontvia will need to get 50 points MORE than Ashton based on the quality of the song to even finish on the same level.

 

That's just to show that no matter what you say about who it affects or how, it's a mathmatical fact that "friendly" voting or whatever you want to call it puts some countries at a disadvantage, no matter whether it comes to winning, qualifying or finishing in the bottom places.

Interesting points. However, one could argue that it does have a lot to do with the song - Albania, Bulgaria, Belarus and Poland are several examples of countries who haven't done particularly well recently (with the exceptions of Bulgaria and Belarus in 2007), all with a fair few neighbours (and before anybody points out Bulgaria only has three neighbours, if we're going by that rule then Slovenia/Croatia giving Serbia 12 doesn't count as neighbourly voting) who should, by logical conclusion, also be benefitting from the trend of neighbourly voting, especially as the number of neighbourly countries goes up. Ditto this point for Croatia last year. I still think that scores are affected by a larger degree by the song - with the odd anomaly like Romania 2007. Can anyone really argue that most of the recent Balkan entries haven't been deserving of their good results lately? Whereas, taking last year as an example, it's very hard to argue that, say, the UK or Spain were undeserving of their poor results, with only really Malta having a song that particularly stood out from western Europe as being particularly original and deserving of qualification. If Western Europe shapes up and submits some quality this year and still does poorly, I will hold my hands up and admit I was wrong, but until then I think it has a lot more to do with the fact that Eastern European countries in general try a lot harder to search for good songs and do actually end up sending quality pop tunes - Russia last year as a key example of something that the UK would do well to aim for ^_^

hmm...both interesting points

 

I agree Peter about your example of some countries having an instant 60 points...this is why countries like Macedonia and Croatia will never find themselves at the bottom of the leaderboard (or in the bottom five).

 

I thought Daz Sampson did incredibly well in 2006 to receive points from ten different countries, compared to Scooch who could only get two 'friendly' countries votes...so obviously Daz had some sort of appeal to some of these countries...if the UK can find a song with much more mass appeal then I'm sure in the future we can still come in the top ten. I'm certain if we sent Mika or Leona Lewis we would finish in the top three

Hmm yes, interesting points.

elements of it are even evident in the EDC in september

 

What we should do is pullout of eurovison alltogether and then Spain France and Germany would eventualy follow through and there would be no eurovision anything

 

take that europe

elements of it are even evident in the EDC in september

 

What we should do is pullout of eurovison alltogether and then Spain France and Germany would eventualy follow through and there would be no eurovision anything

 

take that europe

Don't think europe would like that. Then they really will strongly dislike us for being a sore loser

The EDC wasn't at all representative! Ireland top 3, Portugal fifth - that's not at all politics then! Also, it does seem to be a trend that if voting starts at the beginning the last performer wins - as happened in the EDC and has happened for the past two years in the JESC; it would seem we were just cursed with a bad draw.

 

Oh yes, and BUMP cos I reckon we'll get the annual rush of ignorance soon :smoke:

Added a reply to the tiresome 'Russia-oil' argument peddled by Wogan et al...

Added an ALW response...

Good answers, Trash. Thanks. :)

 

Hopefully with 50% jury vote this year neighborly voting will cease. Well, not cease completely, but hopefully it will go down. But I have noticed in recent years the UK and Ireland neighborly votes haven't been as strong as they were in previous years. This is probably due to the increase in diaspora voting.

 

But I think diaspora voting won't be as strong this year, either. I know 30% of the Polish living in Ireland are returning home (:(), and the same with the Latvians, Lithuanians, Czechs, Ukrainians etc. living here.

 

It'll be an interesting year with all the competition changes and political changes also. I wonder how Ireland will do with the Lisbon rejection and I wonder how Russia will do as regards turning off the gas because of Ukraine's huge unpaid gas bill. I can understand their decision to turn it off, but I think we may need to build an alternative gas route. Anyway... I wonder how Georgia will do after the whole 2008 war. And Israel's result will be interesting.

Edited February 3, 200916 yr by Cal★

I'm not really all that certain that Ireland rejecting Lisbon would have much of an effect - even I'd forgotten about it, so I'm not sure if your average Eurovision viewer would really consider it :lol: While I think Iraq may have influenced the scoring a little for the UK in 2003 (you're not telling me that ALL the die-hard Irish-UK televoters realised that Jemini were awful? :P :lol: And yes, this even accounts for the way they did their votes that year - the released televote after had nothing for the UK either! :o), Jemini's awfulness has to take the brunt for that result, so I'm not sure if politics really means all that much in Eurovision...especially as Israel seem to keep pumping out the hits every few years.

Q: Is it true that Russia will turn off the oil to Eastern European countries if they don't vote for them and make them the winners every year?

 

A: Well, for a start Russia didn't win a contest until 2008 - something to think about there, seeing as they've been sending oil around the world for a good few decades. Also, Russia haven't turned off the oil when they haven't done well - Russia missed the top ten in 2004 and 2005 with some pretty awful scores. Furthermore, I doubt Putin would be able to give the excuse of neighbours not voting for them in Eurovision to break contracts with the countries they export oil to - let's not forget that oil is a big source of profit for Russia, a country that still has many financial and social problems, although is swiftly becoming a rising economic power. No, to find Russia's popularity you have to look at their entries for the past couple of years - in 2006 and 2008 they sent Dima Bilan, an artist massively popular throughout not just Eastern, but quite a lot of Europe (and the fact that he received many points from countries not in Eastern Europe just compounds this point), having won MTV Awards and such with his unique brand of dark and modern pop which wouldn't sound out of place in the UK charts were it not for his very prominent Russian accent. In 2007 Russia sent Serebro, a three-piece girl group compared to Girls Aloud by many, sending 'Song #1', a credible modern pop song that, in the words of a member on this forum, 'Girls Aloud would kill to cover' (although at a time when the group's fortunes weren't quite as good as they are now it must be remembered before the fanboys start firebombing this thread :P). Sometimes it's better to actually examine the songs that Eastern European countries send - it's very rare that one succeeds without actually having a degree of quality behind it!

 

 

I think this is true Pavel has threatened us to turn the oil pipeline off :cry:

I'm not really all that certain that Ireland rejecting Lisbon would have much of an effect - even I'd forgotten about it, so I'm not sure if your average Eurovision viewer would really consider it :lol: While I think Iraq may have influenced the scoring a little for the UK in 2003 (you're not telling me that ALL the die-hard Irish-UK televoters realised that Jemini were awful? :P :lol: And yes, this even accounts for the way they did their votes that year - the released televote after had nothing for the UK either! :o), Jemini's awfulness has to take the brunt for that result, so I'm not sure if politics really means all that much in Eurovision...especially as Israel seem to keep pumping out the hits every few years.

 

I hope Europe forgets about Lisbon. I'm neutral on the matter, anyway. :P

 

I hope politics doesn't mar the voting, but it wouldn't surprise me if it did.

 

 

 

I agree with just about all of these points. I agree that political voting isnt the reason for certain countries winning, but when you look into it, it is evident in places.

 

Fantastic article from the Metro today that is quite similar to the original post of this thread! It's definitely worth a read and you can do so by clicking here!

Fantastic article from the Metro today that is quite similar to the original post of this thread! It's definitely worth a read and you can do so by clicking here!

 

Disagree with 90% in this article. :)

 

Especially with the answers in these 2 parts :

"How can we win when Western Europe never does well any more?"

"We never do well now because nobody in Europe likes us any more".