July 21, 200817 yr This is a good idea There is no excuse for anyone to be sitting at home watching daytime tv when there is so much work out there that needs doing
July 21, 200817 yr Sorry, but I dont agree with this idea at all... It there is "so much work" that needs doing in communities, then bloody well ADVERTISE for the jobs and pay out at least Miniumum Wage for it.... This idea will do nothing but create a whole under-class of workers which is not even earning Minimum Wage and create a virtual "Slave Labour" society... I'm all for getting people up off their arses, but, come on, a fair days work for a fair day's pay... Working a full-time job for just over 50 quid a week benefits...? Utter bullsh!t, how does that incentivise people to do good work.....? This is nowt different than what the Tories did with their various schemes back in the 80s, and look what happened there, you had cases of people being sacked from one job and then ending up doing more or less the same jobs they got paid a wage to do for peanuts.... <_<
July 21, 200817 yr Sorry, but I dont agree with this idea at all... It there is "so much work" that needs doing in communities, then bloody well ADVERTISE for the jobs and pay out at least Miniumum Wage for it.... This idea will do nothing but create a whole under-class of workers which is not even earning Minimum Wage and create a virtual "Slave Labour" society... I'm all for getting people up off their arses, but, come on, a fair days work for a fair day's pay... Working a full-time job for just over 50 quid a week benefits...? Utter bullsh!t, how does that incentivise people to do good work.....? This is nowt different than what the Tories did with their various schemes back in the 80s, and look what happened there, you had cases of people being sacked from one job and then ending up doing more or less the same jobs they got paid a wage to do for peanuts.... <_< People need to be in a work culture though Sitting around all day doing nothing would take away one's motivation to work and would make them less of an asset to any employer so if they are doing jobs in the community they are getting out in the fresh air and getting into a work culture even if they not getting minimum wage, once someone gets into the habit again of a work culture they will surely be an asset to an employer more than if they were a couch potato being zombified on a diet of Trisha and Jeremy Kyle every day
July 21, 200817 yr People need to be in a work culture though Sitting around all day doing nothing would take away one's motivation to work and would make them less of an asset to any employer so if they are doing jobs in the community they are getting out in the fresh air and getting into a work culture even if they not getting minimum wage, once someone gets into the habit again of a work culture they will surely be an asset to an employer more than if they were a couch potato being zombified on a diet of Trisha and Jeremy Kyle every day Why am I not surprised that Craig the Tory just loves this idea..... :rolleyes: I hear what you're saying man, but you do NOT create a "work culture" by instilling a 'slave mentality' onto people... People need to take pride in their work, and they wont do this by being forced into it or being paid a sh!t "wage"... Well, it's not even a wage is it.....? A fair wage is being paid the going rate for the particular job concerned.... You want people to dig a ditch....? Then find out what the going hourly rate is for ditch digging.... Reckon it might be a tad more than £1.50 an hour mate...... <_< You cannot trust all employers to play fair on this.. The system is open to abuse just like it was when the Tories did it.... Oh, mind you, you being a TORY and all, you probably had no objections to the exploitation that went on back then either...... <_< This aint "Apprenticeships" or training people up to do a job at the end of it. This is SLAVE FUKKIN' LABOUR.... Let's make no mistake about it here folks....
July 21, 200817 yr Well in this instance as someone who has always regarded myself as a Social Democrat, I think the cold reality is that you DO need schemes like this to encourage people to get off their backsides and not stay comatose in front of the TV watching Jeremy Kyle. But, they must NOT be used by the businesses who operate them as a rip off source of cheap labour, which they frequently were in the past during the 1980s. It is sound Economic sense to have someone working and being able to pay taxes, instead of being a burden to the tax payer. But at the same time, there is the social welfare (a concept that Thacherism never ever grasped) to these individuals, their families & communities to ensure that they are not being exploited. If you can combine those two factors then you are on to a winner, but like a lot of things in life that is easier said than done.
July 21, 200817 yr once someone gets into the habit again of a work culture they will surely be an asset to an employer more than if they were a couch potato being zombified on a diet of Trisha and Jeremy Kyle every day Excuse me not everyone on job seekers allowance applies to the same stereotype :rolleyes: I'm with Grimly this sounds like an excuse for slave labour <_< Once I get round to it I'm gonna apply for it myself and once I'm back from my holiday I'm gonna go and look for a damn job but the problem is I'm caught in a hole as I've never had a proper job in my life so it might take me a while. :( However if I don't a job I'm still planning to go around the country for auditions for courses to further my chance of my choice of career and if I'm forced to do full time work and they won't let me go then they can f*ck right off. <_< My unemployed diet is internet, computer games and spending my overdraft socialising and going to gigs, once the football season kicks off I may be a bit of a couch potato on weekends though :P I really do feel this will just victimise people who are just unlucky with regards to getting a job, it's not as easy some people seem to think it is :(
July 21, 200817 yr I am shocked at this. Yes, get the long-term unemployed clearing litter and graffiti etc but Incapacity Benefit should be left well alone. I've been on it 20 years with depression and nerves etc and have good days and bad days. What employer wants someone who can't guarantee when they can come? Ludicrous. Edited July 21, 200817 yr by Crazy Chris
July 21, 200817 yr I am shocked at this. Yes, get the long-term unemployed clearing litter and graffiti etc but Incapacity Benefit should be left well alone. I've been on it 20 years with depression and nerves etc and have good days and bad days. What employer wants someone who can't guarantee when they can come? Ludicrous. Its easy to fake mate Am sure your case is genuine but the majority of those that claim they are too depressed to work are faking it and giving the genuine minority a bad name Anyone could walk into a docs fake depression, get some prozac and walk into a benefit office and get a nice weekly handout so if the genuine cases get inconvenienced smoking out the cheats then its a price worth paying The benefits system is not a money tree it is the taxpayer that is funding all the fakers
July 21, 200817 yr Its easy to fake mate Am sure your case is genuine but the majority of those that claim they are too depressed to work are faking it and giving the genuine minority a bad name Anyone could walk into a docs fake depression, get some prozac and walk into a benefit office and get a nice weekly handout so if the genuine cases get inconvenienced smoking out the cheats then its a price worth paying The benefits system is not a money tree it is the taxpayer that is funding all the fakers The simple fact is the number of claimants of incapacity benefit or the same equivalent is double or more most other EEC countries in percentage terms. So either a lot of UK citizens are "swinging the lead" or else we are a very sickly nation. I know which I think is more likely. The sad fact is in the UK, especially under Labour it is never been easier than ever to claim benefit if you know how to play the system. I live in a working class area and a know a number of people who have been signed off long term with incapacity benefits, yet they are perfectly fit enough to frequent the pub I go too and have a drink or 5 and smoke. Ironically that has often been at the expense of genuine people who for one thing or another are intimidated by filling in forms or more likely to be fobbed off by their Doctor. However what cannot be denied is the number of people in 2006/7 claiming incapacity benefit was 73% higher (and that is official National Statistic figures) than it was in the last year of the last Conservative administration. So I think you can see which side of the fence I am on in this debate.
July 21, 200817 yr So you're saying basically that anyone on IB isn't supposed to go to the pub for a drink or two? Ridiculous. Edited July 21, 200817 yr by Crazy Chris
July 21, 200817 yr So you're saying basically that anyone on IB isn't supposed to go to the pub for a drink or two? Ridiculous. No I'm saying it is ridiculous that the UK taxpayer should have to subside 14.3% of the working population who are apparently "unfit to work" when the average EEC population who are unfit to work is at 7.6%.
July 21, 200817 yr No I'm saying it is ridiculous that the UK taxpayer should have to subside 14.3% of the working population who are apparently "unfit to work" when the average EEC population who are unfit to work is at 7.6%. "I live in a working class area and a know a number of people who have been signed off long term with incapacity benefits, yet they are perfectly fit enough to frequent the pub I go too and have a drink or 5 and smoke." So can you explain that sentence then please? If they can walk why shouldn't they go to a pub for a drink?
July 21, 200817 yr "I live in a working class area and a know a number of people who have been signed off long term with incapacity benefits, yet they are perfectly fit enough to frequent the pub I go too and have a drink or 5 and smoke." So can you explain that sentence then please? If they can walk why shouldn't they go to a pub for a drink? Simple. I regard them as sponging off the state. It is all well and good having a dink or two, but getting pissed out of their heads every Friday or Saturday night I have a problem with. I know a couple of them have told me they had much greater difficulty gaining invalidity benefit under the old the Conservative administration. In short I resent going out to work and having a disproportionate amount of money being spent on low life like them. The same goes for the various teenage chavs who are unemployable, who've dropped out of the education system have a number of children being paid for by the state who spend their time vandalising bus shelters, painting houses with graffiti & smoking skunk & weed. The simple fact is that the UK has the highest rate of teenage pregnancies; the UK has the highest rate of people of a working age who are "unemployable" than any other country in Europe. Those facts/statistics are undeniable & along for with the way UK authorities implemented the 1997 European Charter for Children's Welfare Act are the biggest indictment of Nu Labour. Certainly a far worse crime IMHO than being Bush's gimp in some illegal war in Iraq. All do you think it is normal for the UK to have nearly double the amount of "skivvers" & "teenage pregnancies" than the rest of Europe? Because I sure as hell don't.
July 21, 200817 yr Simple. I regard them as sponging off the state. It is all well and good having a dink or two, but getting pissed out of their heads every Friday or Saturday night I have a problem with. I know a couple of them have told me they had much greater difficulty gaining invalidity benefit under the old the Conservative administration. In short I resent going out to work and having a disproportionate amount of money being spent on low life like them. The same goes for the various teenage chavs who are unemployable, who've dropped out of the education system have a number of children being paid for by the state who spend their time vandalising bus shelters, painting houses with graffiti & smoking skunk & weed. The simple fact is that the UK has the highest rate of teenage pregnancies; the UK has the highest rate of people of a working age who are "unemployable" than any other country in Europe. Those facts/statistics are undeniable & along for with the way UK authorities implemented the 1997 European Charter for Children's Welfare Act are the biggest indictment of Nu Labour. Certainly a far worse crime IMHO than being Bush's gimp in some illegal war in Iraq. All do you think it is normal for the UK to have nearly double the amount of "skivvers" & "teenage pregnancies" than the rest of Europe? Because I sure as hell don't. Rarely agree with you but you are 100% spot on here
July 21, 200817 yr This must be the umteenth time this Government have proposed changes to IB, they bring them out every 6 months, and then they are forgotten about. I am sure I posted a thread last year basicly saying the same thing, and hey presto 1 year later here we are again. I will bet this time next year there will be yet another announcement with new changes promised. It won't work, because simply too many individuals don't want to work. And even if they did, in lots of areas there is simply no work available. You only have to look at Glasgow East (where the by election is this week), where thousands are on IB, There are no factories, just bleak landscapes of towerblocks, where teenagers, their parents and grandparents have never worked. The only surprise to me is the timing of this announcement, 3 days before a by-election.
July 21, 200817 yr A spokesperson for the IB changes, said that they simply plan to try & get people to 'Work For Benefits' - and he said it would average out at about £1.70 an hour - less than a Third of the Minimum Wage. So, I suggest that anyone who agrees with that, should immediately have their Pay cut to £1.70 an Hour, & be made to Work 30 to 35 Hours a Week for it - including MP's. If it is good enough for people out of Work, it HAS to be good enough for people IN Work. Also, I am registered Disabled, for genuine reasons that I am too upset to talk about, & I am so fed up of being labelled a 'Scrounger' by the UK Media & the way some MP's talk about people like me, that I'd gladly be first in the queue, if the Government set up Gas Chambers for Disabled people, or Lethal Injections, for us. We are clearly not welcome in this World, & are filling space that could be occupied by active contributers to Society. More & more Disabled people feel this way, & it is probably better if we all just died. I'm sure that Brown & Co. have some new Wars & Weapons that the cash could fund, instead of being used on 'Useless Mouths', as the Nazis called Disabled people. Anyhow, the World is c**p, & it is better to be dead. Edited July 21, 200817 yr by zeus555
July 22, 200817 yr im with craig and tip on this. i know people on ib and they are having a ball. they are well enough to play footy, cut hedges, clean cars, live at MY expense only without working for it. they also 'self certificate' so its relitively easy to claim. the other point about 'work ethic' not only applies to them though, but its rubbing off on their kids who see it as a career option, especially if they bang a few chavs out. its all right scott going on about 'slave wages' and 'proper jobs', but on the other hand WHY should we... taxpaying workers... give these people an easy ride through life?... if i want something i HAVE to work for it, ive worked with bachache, sickness, when i could EASILY and HONESTLY have sat on my arse and let YOU lot pay for my lifestyle.. i dont agree with summut for nothing (unless the disability is severe and genuine) but theres far too many abusing the system. if scott thinks this is ok then HE can pay my share for me! thanks! :lol:
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