I would have cut 3-5p off the rate of direct income tax and cut corporation tax and cut the rate of stamp duty to get the housing market moving again

 

I agree something needed to be done to stimulate growth but I fail to see what difference if any a 2.5% cut in VAT will make to High St, if people are not spending even though big retailers have cut their prices recently by as much as 20% then they won't with 2.5% cut off, with stuff like food being VAT free the only real savings will be on stuff like cars and plasma tv's and people are not buying those atm so another 2.5% off the price of one isn't going to get people rushing to Currys or their local Ford dealer

 

If the government were going to borrow money then they should have borrowed it for something that would make a real impact, 2.5% off VAT will in my opinion make little or no impact

 

as i understand it, the vat tax cut is aimed more at businesses to help them survive and carry on employing people hence paying taxes then to concentrate on consumers alone.

 

besides only the other day you stated that so far this crisis hasnt affected you!

I've got no issues at all with Broon, ahem, sorry, Darling raising taxes for the super-rich... It's hardly gonna effect them, and frankly, if you cant "get by" on whatever's left after 45% tax "earning" a telephone-number (including STD code) salary, well, frankly, you're doing summat way wrong... :lol: As far as I'm concerned the top rates of income tax should never have been lowered from 60%....

 

As for the other stuff, well, Craig is totally correct that a 2.5 decrease in VAT will do absolutely sod all to really help the poor.. I would've totally cut VAT on gas and electricity instead, this would really help those on low incomes, particularly over the Winter months.. I really can't see how saving 5p on a box of Sainsburys mince pies or whatever is really going to help in the long-run, people are already going for the cheaper options in the supermarkets as it is.... Shaving almost a FIFTH off people's domestic fuel/water bills however for the next year, would actually accomplish something meaningful, as after rent/mortgage is probably the average person's biggest expense (certainly the one that's causing the most outrage anyway with what the gas and electric companies are getting up to these days...), and putting 0.5% on National Insurance is disgusting frankly... A real 'give with one hand, take with the other' measure that is....

 

Thing is though, Broon, oops, there I go AGAIN, I keep meaning to say Darling.... :lol: Anyway, Darling, is taking one hell of a gamble, he assumes that this 2% growth is actually gonna happen, and when Nu Labor are done, the National Debt is gonna be absolutely feckin' astronomical... And for those of you who dont know how this "debt" is guaranteed, well, I suggest you all watch Niall Ferguson's excellent "The Ascent of Money" series on Channel 4.. Basically, the nation gets these "loans" through issuing government bonds on the world markets.... These bonds are basically promises to pay at some point in the future... Er, well, what if the markets lose faith in the bonds and demand the Govt pay back the debt and we're still nowhere near this alleged 2% that Broon, sorry, Darling is counting on....? We. Are. Fukked. And frankly, it's sounding like one of those fanciful projections that contestants on "Dragons Den" come up with to try to convince the panellists to invest in their lame-duck "enterprises"..... I rather think if Broon or Darling went on the show selling this fukkin' lemon, they'd almost certainly get a unanimous "I'm out" from the panel....

 

Not sure that the Tories have any answers though, Rob is quite correct in this assertion... Cameron's an empty suit of bugger all, and it was those b/astards that put VAT onto just about everything anyway, so they really have nothing to say tbh...

 

I think Vince Cable has a point tbh, he's by far the most credible voice of opposition, and actually seems to know what the hell he's talking about...

Of course it's not the media's fault however they're certainly not completely innocent. I don't ever read either paper but I don't want to imagine the ludicrous amount of scare-mongering the likes of the Scum and hate Mail will have done over this recession. Of course it is the fault of Gov'ts, banks etc but the media don't exactly help it with the way they report things!

 

You know, if it was ONLY The Sun or The Mail saying this, then you'd have a point.. The fact is, just about EVERY avenue of the Media is extremely sceptical about Broon and Darling's economic plans.... Especially now with Darling's speech still ringing in everyone's ears.... NOBODY with any sense is buying this sh!t....

 

besides only the other day you stated that so far this crisis hasnt affected you!

 

It has a bit but because I keep expenditure under control during good times I am able to weather the storm

 

I don't have a credit card for instance, I rely entirely on cash so don't get hammered with interest payments on credit cards, I am a single guy with no dependents so any money I have is my own so again I am able to whether the storm, work is a bit quieter than same stage as last year but I have enough coming in from existing clients to keep me going, there might well come a point where I will have to cut my prices in which case I will have less income coming in for the same work but the fact that i am dare I say it, quite tight with money means that I can whether the storm in the recession I would say

 

I'm not a fan of the VAT cut. It seems gimmicky, not to mention ridiculously risky... what if, despite this, retail sales are still terrible this Xmas, plunging us into even more debt than currently predicted? I would've preferred to see cuts in income tax for the lowest earners and more help for small businesses, with incentives for those who create jobs, similar to Obama's plan in the US.

I'm not a fan of the VAT cut. It seems gimmicky, not to mention ridiculously risky... what if, despite this, retail sales are still terrible this Xmas, plunging us into even more debt than currently predicted? I would've preferred to see cuts in income tax for the lowest earners and more help for small businesses, with incentives for those who create jobs, similar to Obama's plan in the US.

 

Agreed... This VAT stuff is totally gimmicky, I just dont see how, or who, it's really gonna help.... Might help people buying a car or a plasma screen TV, but, seriously, how many ordinary people on low incomes who are scared about whether they're gonna have a bloody job in the New Year are gonna take that kind of plunge just now....? Not many with any sense....

I am looking at purchasing a laptop soon as this PC is quite old now, have seen one I want at just over £1300 but with the VAT cut its going to save £32 off the price, a cut of that proportion is not going to swing the balance of whether I buy it or not so I don't see how anyone is going to commit to any purchase based on 2.5% off VAT

Agreed... This VAT stuff is totally gimmicky, I just dont see how, or who, it's really gonna help.... Might help people buying a car or a plasma screen TV, but, seriously, how many ordinary people on low incomes who are scared about whether they're gonna have a bloody job in the New Year are gonna take that kind of plunge just now....? Not many with any sense....

 

You'd be surprised how much of a difference 2.5% makes in the long run. For sure the lower income families won't see quite the effect that the middle-high earners will BUT the average family will be gaining £10-20 a week which they will undoubtedly spend. This was not really something to help those on low incomes - it was meant to get those with the money to spend it.

I am looking at purchasing a laptop soon as this PC is quite old now, have seen one I want at just over £1300 but with the VAT cut its going to save £32 off the price, a cut of that proportion is not going to swing the balance of whether I buy it or not so I don't see how anyone is going to commit to any purchase based on 2.5% off VAT

 

BUT if you do buy it, it will mean you have £32 extra pounds to pump into the economy elsewhere which is the whole point of the move.

You'd be surprised how much of a difference 2.5% makes in the long run. For sure the lower income families won't see quite the effect that the middle-high earners will BUT the average family will be gaining £10-20 a week which they will undoubtedly spend. This was not really something to help those on low incomes - it was meant to get those with the money to spend it.

 

How will it gain them £10-20 a week ?

 

Food and childrens clothes are VAT FREE, you don't pay VAT on those sort of items and to save £20 a week the average family would have to spend £800 a week in the High St non food and non childrens clothes, your figures don't add up mate, no one spends that much a week in terms of the average family, a family that spends say £150 a week in the High St, is going to be £3.75 better off, hardly a big deal ;) just enough for a pint and a bag of pork scratchings

BUT if you do buy it, it will mean you have £32 extra pounds to pump into the economy elsewhere which is the whole point of the move.

 

I have to get it it is a necessity as I need computer for my work, the fact that it is going to save £32 off an essential purchase is great but it would not swing the balance between money staying in my pocket and me purchasing it, if i have £1300 to spend then £32 is not going to make any massive difference, I just don't see anyone who had NOT planned on buying a laptop thinking that they will now go out and buy one as it will be £20 cheaper if they spend £1000, if it was £200 cheaper then yeah that is different but £20 off a grand is negligible and will just help EXISTING purchases, it will not get people buying it as impulse purchase

 

who the f*** would spend £1300 on a laptop?

 

My PC and laptop combined cost roughly that

who the f*** would spend £1300 on a laptop?

 

My PC and laptop combined cost roughly that

 

HERE - this one is one I am interested in

 

I've got no issues at all with Broon, ahem, sorry, Darling raising taxes for the super-rich... It's hardly gonna effect them, and frankly, if you cant "get by" on whatever's left after 45% tax "earning" a telephone-number (including STD code) salary, well, frankly, you're doing summat way wrong... :lol: As far as I'm concerned the top rates of income tax should never have been lowered from 60%....

 

As for the other stuff, well, Craig is totally correct that a 2.5 decrease in VAT will do absolutely sod all to really help the poor.. I would've totally cut VAT on gas and electricity instead, this would really help those on low incomes, particularly over the Winter months.. I really can't see how saving 5p on a box of Sainsburys mince pies or whatever is really going to help in the long-run, people are already going for the cheaper options in the supermarkets as it is.... Shaving almost a FIFTH off people's domestic fuel/water bills however for the next year, would actually accomplish something meaningful, as after rent/mortgage is probably the average person's biggest expense (certainly the one that's causing the most outrage anyway with what the gas and electric companies are getting up to these days...), and putting 0.5% on National Insurance is disgusting frankly... A real 'give with one hand, take with the other' measure that is....

 

Thing is though, Broon, oops, there I go AGAIN, I keep meaning to say Darling.... :lol: Anyway, Darling, is taking one hell of a gamble, he assumes that this 2% growth is actually gonna happen, and when Nu Labor are done, the National Debt is gonna be absolutely feckin' astronomical... And for those of you who dont know how this "debt" is guaranteed, well, I suggest you all watch Niall Ferguson's excellent "The Ascent of Money" series on Channel 4.. Basically, the nation gets these "loans" through issuing government bonds on the world markets.... These bonds are basically promises to pay at some point in the future... Er, well, what if the markets lose faith in the bonds and demand the Govt pay back the debt and we're still nowhere near this alleged 2% that Broon, sorry, Darling is counting on....? We. Are. Fukked. And frankly, it's sounding like one of those fanciful projections that contestants on "Dragons Den" come up with to try to convince the panellists to invest in their lame-duck "enterprises"..... I rather think if Broon or Darling went on the show selling this fukkin' lemon, they'd almost certainly get a unanimous "I'm out" from the panel....

 

Not sure that the Tories have any answers though, Rob is quite correct in this assertion... Cameron's an empty suit of bugger all, and it was those b/astards that put VAT onto just about everything anyway, so they really have nothing to say tbh...

 

I think Vince Cable has a point tbh, he's by far the most credible voice of opposition, and actually seems to know what the hell he's talking about...

 

i was under the impression that the vat tax cut WAS for fuel/electricity/gas .. across the board.

 

you say that 2.5% off the vat is meaningless.... but youd be the first to complain if there was a 2.5% RISE... <_<

 

otherwise i agree... ok it is a risk, but tbh i think they are genuine in their beliefs/assertations whether they are proven to be right or not only time will tell.

Hasn't he raised the fuel duty to compensate for the reduction in VAT? I think I read that the cost of fuel is going up by slightly more than the comparable 2.5% VAT reduction so the Govt don't lose out on any fuel tax revenue. By 'fuel' I mean petrol and diesel.

 

Anyway, I'll post my comments on this Mini-Budget thing later tonight when I have more time.

-_-

 

I am very worried by all of this. I sincerely hope Broon and Darling know what they are doing but I've a terrible feeling they are plucking ideas from thin air in a fit of (political) desperation. I just can't accept that a national debt of 1 trillion quid is sustainable. Even if the economy does pick up sooner than expected we'll all still be repaying this debt in 2156... :wacko:

 

Anyway, as for the 2.5% reduction in VAT-

I know there is a school of thought that the best way to get out of a recession is to stimulate the economy by 'spend, spend, spend'. The Govt spends by investing heavily in large public works such as building roads, hospitals, schools etc. The public is given the incentive to spend more of their disposable income on the High Street. This 2.5% reduction in VAT is supposed to encourage us to go out and buy things. I'm sorry but to me that's just bollocks. It's a political gimmick. Nothing more.

I know that under EU rules the UK is not allowed to reduce VAT on most items below 15% so Darling didn't have much leeway. So why bother? At the moment, people are struggling to pay for everyday essentials. Let's look at those-

- Electricity and gas. Utility bills already fall into the reduced VAT category of 5% so this latest VAT reduction isn't going to affect gas and leccy bills in the slightest

- Most Food is already exempt from VAT (ditto as above).

- Petrol. Yes, VAT has been reduced from 17.5% to 15% but Darling has immediately raised the fuel duty to cancel out any benefit from the VAT reduction.

- Kids clothes are already exempt from VAT.

 

So we are left with adult clothes, household items, cars, holidays etc. If people are worried about paying their gas bills or losing their jobs they are hardly likely to be out buying a Plasma Telly for £500 just because you now get £20 off the price (assuming of course the retailers even pass on the reduction). Does Darling really think someone swithering over whether to buy a £50 pair of jeans is going to rush to the shops on Monday because they're now £49?

Exactly how is this going to stimulate the economy? Most of the items we buy these days are imported anyway. And with the value of the pound plummeting every day costs will probably rise soon anyway. I say again, it's a gimmick.

 

Wouldn't he have been better raising the tax threshold for low to middle earners and leave normal VAT alone? Or scrap VAT on gas and leccy if this is allowed under EU rules?

 

There was nothing in this Pre-Budget Report to encourage me to spend more money. I can't see what I've gained from it other than the fact I'll be paying much higher tax and NI in a couple of years to pay for it all.

 

Finally, why are we apparently the worst placed of all the G7 countries to withstand this recession? I thought our Finances were in a marvellous state following 10 years of Dear Prudence. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

 

I could go on but I won't. <_<

HERE - this one is one I am interested in

Ahhh,

 

See i could understand that fully if it wasn't an Acer. Nice piece of kit tho, great if you can afford it ^_^

The cost of re-pricing everything will probably cost small shops as much as the 2.5% of vat. It will not encourage the public to spend spend spend, Most shops are already giving discounts in their sales of between 10-50%, so what is another 2.5% going to achieve. Its a pure political gimmick.

 

Watch Vat go up not only to 17.5%, but possibly even higher to help fill in the black hole.

It's quite patronising really. "The country is in a state of economic crises, I know!; Lets cut VAT by 2.5%". :lol:

Have they not raised Petrol, Alcohol and Fag tax to rake back the money they'd loose on VAT from those products.

 

I know booze isn't dropping in price coz my best friend works in a independent fine wine shop and they ain't changing their prices