Posted November 28, 200816 yr Shadow minister Graham Green has been arrested, apparently for questioning the government, and trying to hold them to account. What has happened to UK democracy? Police say Mr Green was held on suspicion of "conspiring to commit misconduct in a public office" and "aiding and abetting, counselling or procuring misconduct in a public office" - an obscure and little-used offence under common law. Read the full story here http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7753763.stm All the terror legislation of the past 8 years has led us to become a nation that no longer allows dissention from the government line, how much further down this path will we go? The police have too much power now, and this government should have known about this, as a senior official said he knew before the arrest was made. The war in Iraq and 9/11 have eroded our rights, what next being arrested for not agreeing with the government???????
November 28, 200816 yr This is the sort of $h!t you expect in North Korea, China or Zimbabwe, the fact it is taking place in a so called western democracy is disgraceful
November 29, 200816 yr 100% in agreement with Craig and Kindagood... This is a fukkin' disgraceful turn of events, and it makes Rob's statements about Britain's supposed "democracy" in the BNP thread absolutely LAUGHABLE... This MP was doing what an Opposition MP is BLOODY WELL SUPPOSED TO DO - ie, to actually OPPOSE the Govt.... Indeed, this is exactly the sort of thing that I've been talking about with my whole argument about Police State Britain and the abuse of power which has come from this "anti-terror" legislation, this is NOT the first time that "anti-terror" legislation has been used against the citizenry - Brian Haw, the anti-war campaigner, in fact anti-war (and other) protests being effectively barred from Parliament Square (which is OUR FUKKIN' LAND and BELONGS to the people of this country, as it is classed as "common land" under law...); the OAP who was roughed up and arrested under "anti-terror" legislation at a Labour Party conference a few years ago, Jean Charles De Menezes who was murdered by Police, who then LIED and LIED AGAIN about the truth of what really happened on that day; Sir Ian Blair who sent coppers around to dissenting MPs homes to "convince" them to vote for Govt proposals on 90-day detention for Terror suspects; and now we have this, an abuse of the rights and liberty of an Opposition MP to actually disagree with the Govt...... Let's just look at the picture emerging of Police State Britain in the 21st Century... All of the above examples, mixed in with the ever-growing "surveillance culture", ID cards and the erosion of civil liberties all for the supposed "greater good"..... We are NO LONGER citizens of a free, democratic state, we are now subjects inside a de facto Police State.... If this can happen to an MP, then it can happen to any of us... And we should ALL of us be very, VERY afraid of the power of the State..... Even in America, with the sodding Patriot Act, you wouldn't get something as extreme as this happening....
November 29, 200816 yr This really is ridiculous. Like Barbacus said this is the kind of thing expected of Zimbabwe, North Korea or China. I'm surprised there isn't more of an uproar about this.
November 29, 200816 yr Like Barbacus said this is the kind of thing expected of Zimbabwe, North Korea or China. I'm surprised there isn't more of an uproar about this. Most people probably just think it's funny cos it's happened to a Tory politician, and a lot of us have long memories of how they used the Police as a tool against the working classes during the Miners' Strike, and against the Criminal Justice Act protestors and others, so a lot of people are probably just thinking "hey, Karma's a b**ch innit...?" :lol: ... Well, to me whatever feelings you have towards the Tories as a Party (and god knows, I despise these c/unts....) should really be set aside, this IS an attack on the very democratic processes of this country, it IS an attack on free speech, and it IS an example of the growing Police State culture in the UK.... As bad, or even WORSE than anything Thatcher or Major ever did....
November 29, 200816 yr It's ridiculous based on the information we have at the moment. The leaked information Green has used has sometimes been ambarrassing for the government which is not sufficient to justify his arrest. It should be a potentiaL disciplinary matter for the civil servant involved but no more. However, it may be that the civil servant is suspected of passing on more sensitive information, including material mrelating to national security. If so, there may be a case for searching Green's home and offices and, possibly, even for arresting him if he is suspected of encouraging the leaks. They are all very big ifs. All I'm doing is trying to suggest that there may be more to the swtory than we know at the moment.
November 29, 200816 yr It's ridiculous based on the information we have at the moment. The leaked information Green has used has sometimes been ambarrassing for the government which is not sufficient to justify his arrest. It should be a potentiaL disciplinary matter for the civil servant involved but no more. However, it may be that the civil servant is suspected of passing on more sensitive information, including material mrelating to national security. If so, there may be a case for searching Green's home and offices and, possibly, even for arresting him if he is suspected of encouraging the leaks. They are all very big ifs. All I'm doing is trying to suggest that there may be more to the swtory than we know at the moment. I have the same sort of caution about this story, I don't believe he would just be arrested for making accusations about the government - there must be some deeper reason to get the police involved which we do not yet know of.
November 30, 200816 yr It's ridiculous based on the information we have at the moment. The leaked information Green has used has sometimes been ambarrassing for the government which is not sufficient to justify his arrest. It should be a potentiaL disciplinary matter for the civil servant involved but no more. However, it may be that the civil servant is suspected of passing on more sensitive information, including material mrelating to national security. If so, there may be a case for searching Green's home and offices and, possibly, even for arresting him if he is suspected of encouraging the leaks. They are all very big ifs. All I'm doing is trying to suggest that there may be more to the swtory than we know at the moment. I'm sorry, but I agree with David Cameron... Gordon Brown MUST apologise to the country for this outrageous police action... It's not as if this is the first time Nu Labor has used the Police in this way... And Cameron is right about something else - "Labour" are hypocrites.... When in opposition they didn't thing twice about leaking information that they felt the public had a right to know, so, now in Govt, they seek to deny the Opposition their democratic rights to oppose, AND our rights to be informed about what our so-called "democratically elected" Govt is doing our OUR NAME..... Like Cameron says - Hypocrisy.... <_<
November 30, 200816 yr "The Day UK Democracy Died"? That happened a loooooong time ago. Sure fukkin' did.... :rolleyes: But it's nice to see likes of The Daily Mail finally catching up to what Leftist, Libertarian and Anarchist groups have known for years...
November 30, 200816 yr I'm sorry, but I agree with David Cameron... Gordon Brown MUST apologise to the country for this outrageous police action... It's not as if this is the first time Nu Labor has used the Police in this way... And Cameron is right about something else - "Labour" are hypocrites.... When in opposition they didn't thing twice about leaking information that they felt the public had a right to know, so, now in Govt, they seek to deny the Opposition their democratic rights to oppose, AND our rights to be informed about what our so-called "democratically elected" Govt is doing our OUR NAME..... Like Cameron says - Hypocrisy.... <_> And of course the Tories complained about leaks when they were in power. Governments dislike leaks for the same reason that opposition parties like them. It has been suggested that the civil servant involved in this case accessed information he wasn't entitled to see with the sole purpose of leaking it. That then leads to a suspicion (and no more than a suspicion) that Green encouraged him to do so.
November 30, 200816 yr And of course the Tories complained about leaks when they were in power. Governments dislike leaks for the same reason that opposition parties like them. It has been suggested that the civil servant involved in this case accessed information he wasn't entitled to see with the sole purpose of leaking it. That then leads to a suspicion (and no more than a suspicion) that Green encouraged him to do so. It's an Oppostion's job to embarrass the Govt of the day mate, you miss that very salient point... If Green is guilty of Parliamentary misconduct, then it is a matter for Parliament to discipline him, NOT for the British Police to act like the fukkin' Stasi or the KGB.... <_< , THAT is the point that we are making here.... If these "anti terror" laws are being so bent in such a way to catch out Opposition MPs just doing their jobs (ie, to OPPOSE Govt plans and legislation) and to make people aware of what is being done in our name, then there is surely something VERY fundamentally wrong with how these laws are set up and have been written... God forbid at some point that some extreme Fascist party like the BNP ever gets in power and has these fatally flawed and badly drawn up laws at their disposal to use and abuse against any who would oppose them.... Sorry, I want to live in a DEMOCRACY mate.... Not a fukkin' Fascist Police State.... -_-
November 30, 200816 yr It's an Oppostion's job to embarrass the Govt of the day mate, you miss that very salient point... If Green is guilty of Parliamentary misconduct, then it is a matter for Parliament to discipline him, NOT for the British Police to act like the fukkin' Stasi or the KGB.... <_ that is the point we are making here....> When did I say it wasn't the opposition's job to embarrass the government? All I said was that ALL governments complain about leaks. Cameron and the Tories are just as hypocritical as Brown and Labour.
November 30, 200816 yr This is out of order, The leaks being investigated are below…………….. The leaks are thought have included the disclosure that 5,000 illegal immigrants were working as security guards and bouncers; news that an illegal immigrant was employed as a cleaner in the House of Commons; a whip's list of potential Labour rebels against 42-day detention for terror suspects; and a letter from Ms Smith to Mr Brown warning that the recession would spark a rise in crime. Dissident civil servants have been leaking government documents to members of the opposition since the Xerox corporation manufactured the first photocopier in 1949. A more recent example, there is the leading Labour politician - one Gordon Brown - who made his name in the 1990s by skilfully exploiting the many Whitehall documents that fell into his hands during the Thatcher and Major governments. The young Brown would stand in the Commons waving leaked Treasury papers in the reddened faces of Tory Ministers. Under Prime Minister Brown, he would have had the anti-terror unit coming through his door. I could just about accept if it if the leaks were threatening to National Security, eg names & addresses of MI5 officers, lists of nuclear missiles etc etc. but for the ones quoted, come on.
December 1, 200816 yr Author Although I hate the tories, I think labour have become something more scary..... the police have lost their way and have become the guardians of a facist state...this country has become something frightening, our tradions have been squashed we need a written constitution guaranteeing our rights, and the police need to have constraints put on their powers they have become ineffective because they have lost their way, they abuse individual rights all the time, this is just a high profile case. We need to strengthen our rights and and the government needs to be put in its place
December 1, 200816 yr according to the news this morning, its still uncertain exactly why he was arrested/questioned as the allegations against him are unknown... if this is true then so far this thread is nothing but hot air :rolleyes:
December 1, 200816 yr according to the news this morning, its still uncertain exactly why he was arrested/questioned as the allegations against him are unknown... if this is true then so far this thread is nothing but hot air :rolleyes: And yet again, Rob the apologist for the Nu Labor fascist state.... :rolleyes: You are such a hyporcrite... If this had been the height of Thatcherism and this had happened to someon like John Prescott or Tony Benn, you'd be up in arms about it yourself, and you damn well know it, you'd be saying exactly the same things me, Craig and Kindagood are saying... There have been NO charges made against Green, I think that says it all tbh... Such is the atmosphere in Fascist Police State Britain in 2008, that Green and other prominent Opposition critics of the Govt are actually routinely sweeping their offices for bugs and recording devices... We seriously need to start asking ourselves, is THIS the sort of society we want to live in... I for one, certainly do NOT....
December 1, 200816 yr I can't believe there isn't a bigger fuss about this. This whole affair is outrageous, why are the public standing for it?
December 1, 200816 yr Although I hate the tories, I think labour have become something more scary..... the police have lost their way and have become the guardians of a facist state...this country has become something frightening, our tradions have been squashed we need a written constitution guaranteeing our rights, and the police need to have constraints put on their powers they have become ineffective because they have lost their way, they abuse individual rights all the time, this is just a high profile case. We need to strengthen our rights and and the government needs to be put in its place The FULL TRUTH... Just to take France as an example, the French have privacy enshrined into their laws, we do not, so it's hardly surprising that abuses such as this occur... The French people simply would not tolerate their Govt acting in this manner, bottom line, in France there is a far greater willingness to go out on the streets and protest at erosion of civil liberties... We in this country are just fukkin' PATHETICALLY APATHETIC.... :rolleyes: In France, the State actually fears the wrath of the people... Probably because they remember the days of Robespierre and Danton and 'La Madame Guillotine'.... :lol: I wont argue that France is a perfect society, it's not, but on this area of French culture and society, they have my respect, because the French people do actually keep their Govts in check, this is what WE as a country and as a people need to do, curb the excesses of the State and make these b/astards know once and for all, that THEY are bloody PUBLIC SERVANTS... <_< Same goes for the Police.... We pay their fukkin' wages, time for this sh!t to stop......
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