Up untill recently I thought Auschwitz was in Germany.

 

Feel free to hate on me for this comment :[

That's a perfectly understandable mistake to make, particularly as we always refer to it by its German name rather than the Polish Oswiecim.

Indeed it does.

 

6million is a very lot of people. :mellow:

 

i didn't really know how many deaths were down to him, i knew it was in the millions.....

You'd have to be off your rocker to try to exterminate both an entire religion and country. Whose combined populations greatly out number your own (even if the french just rolled over.....)

The Channel Islanders (the only part of the British Isles to be occupied by the Nazis) didn't exactly put up much resistance either. The idea that there would have been no collaborators if Britain had been invaded is nonsense.

Not that i'm defending Hitler in any way here, but what i always find interesting is that Stalin killed over 20 million of his own people, yet Hitler is always seen as generally a worse dictator :lol:

Is that generally though or just in England/Britain? We were at war with Hitler & Germany but not Russia... It doesn't have quite the same attachment.

Not that i'm defending Hitler in any way here, but what i always find interesting is that Stalin killed over 20 million of his own people, yet Hitler is always seen as generally a worse dictator :lol:

Here Here! Stalin amazes me, he was a nutter. Some of his idea's where incredible (in the sense of incredible ludicrous :lol: ).

A footnote to this discussion.

 

The researchers asked children aged 11-16. The Holocaust isn't taught until year nine, i.e. to 13 and 14 year olds. So it's hardly surprising that a lot of the children asked didn't know about Auschwitz. It's a typical example of flawed research which seems to be designed to achieve a pre-determined result.

A footnote to this discussion.

 

The researchers asked children aged 11-16. The Holocaust isn't taught until year nine, i.e. to 13 and 14 year olds. So it's hardly surprising that a lot of the children asked didn't know about Auschwitz. It's a typical example of flawed research which seems to be designed to achieve a pre-determined result.

 

Considering it was a multiple choice question with four options it really does not excuse the results in the slightest.

 

More evidence of dumbed down Britain amongst our schoolchildren

Daily Mail.co.uk 14/03/2009 at 07:48am

 

A survey of 1,200 schoolchildren recently established that just below a quarter had no idea what Auschwitz, the Nazi death camp, was. The research, conducted by the London Jewish Cultural Centre, found that eight per cent thought it was a country bordering Germany, two per cent thought it was a beer and one per cent believed it to be a type of bread.

 

The Holocaust is a specified part of the National Curriculum, but the message is not getting through. Multiply the Auschwitz-as sourdough sample through the country and it would equate to 45,000 pupils.

 

Auschwitz is an hour from Krakow, which you can fly to directly from almost a dozen airports across Britain. It takes two hours. Organised properly, it could be a day-trip. And then there is no excuse.

 

Stand in a gas chamber, look over a glass case full of spectacles and children's shoes, survey the eerie vastness and then try to mistake Auschwitz for a fancy beer. We have time for so many irrelevances in education - anyone for indoor golf - surely we have funds for this?

 

Depressingly in the same survey 87% of these school children could name all four judges on ITV's X-Factor & 98% of all school children knew the name of the former Big Brother contestant dying of cancer. This is 9% more than the number of school children who could name the Prime Minister of the country. Whilst just 69% of school children could name David Cameron as the Conservative opposition leader.

 

Do you find this survey of Britain's school children very depressing or not?

 

Going back to the original post ^

 

The Daily Mail (17/03/2009) did a follow up comparing it to a similar Gallup multiple choice poll carried out 25 years earlier (in 1984) amongst a sample of 1350 UK Comprehensive School children for a comparison:

 

Those results from 1984 were as follows:

 

98% could correctly name the Prime Minister (Margaret Thatcher) & 86% could name the Labour opposition leader (Neil Kinnock); whilst 92% could name the President of the United States (Ronald Reagan). Impressively 83% could correctly name the author of "The Diary of a Young Girl" (Anne Frank). Whilst 82% could name the Ocean in which the Falkland Islands are situated (Atlantic Ocean).

 

However whilst yesterday's children were more knowledgeable with regards to Politics; History & Geography they were less knowledgeable with regards to Popular Culture.

 

Just 57% could correctly name the surname shared by three members of the UK's then biggest pop band Duran Duran (Taylor). The same percentage 57% could name from the four options the host of BBC1's Saturday evenings Light Entertainment show The Late Late Breakfast Show (Noel Edmonds). Whilst only 47% could correctly name the national manager of England's Football Team (Bobby Robson).

 

In short Suedehead's post has been proven to be a load of rubbish. Unless you regard Jade Goody as a more important figure in today's society than Barrack Obama.

 

 

Considering it was a multiple choice question with four options it really does not excuse the results in the slightest.

Going back to the original post ^

 

The Daily Mail (17/03/2009) did a follow up comparing it to a similar Gallup multiple choice poll carried out 25 years earlier (in 1984) amongst a sample of 1350 UK Comprehensive School children for a comparison:

 

Those results from 1984 were as follows:

 

98% could correctly name the Prime Minister (Margaret Thatcher) & 86% could name the Labour opposition leader (Neil Kinnock); whilst 92% could name the President of the United States (Ronald Reagan). Impressively 83% could correctly name the author of "The Diary of a Young Girl" (Anne Frank). Whilst 82% could name the Ocean in which the Falkland Islands are situated (Atlantic Ocean).

 

However whilst yesterday's children were more knowledgeable with regards to Politics; History & Geography they were less knowledgeable with regards to Popular Culture.

 

Just 57% could correctly name the surname shared by three members of the UK's then biggest pop band Duran Duran (Taylor). The same percentage 57% could name from the four options the host of BBC1's Saturday evenings Light Entertainment show The Late Late Breakfast Show (Noel Edmonds). Whilst only 47% could correctly name the national manager of England's Football Team (Bobby Robson).

 

In short Suedehead's post has been proven to be a load of rubbish. Unless you regard Jade Goody as a more important figure in today's society than Barrack Obama.

You're not comparing like with like. Jade Goody got far more general news coverage than the individual members of Duran Duran. So that's more a reflection of the media's obsession with a talentless attention-seeker than the education system.

 

The numbers correctly getting the name of the Prime Minister are not that far apart. When I was 11 I could have named the PM (Heath) but my parents discussed politics quite a lot so I picked it up from them. I suspect a lot of my contemporaries wouldn't have known. In 1984 Thatcher had been PM for five years and had won two elections whereas Brown has only been PM for less than two years and has yet to fight an election as leader.

 

I'm surprised by the Anne Frank figure unless the alternative answers were clearly ridiculous - or the book had been in the news just before the question was asked.

 

The figures for the leader of the opposition also seem surprising at first sight but it's still not possible to say anything definite without knowing exactly what question was asked each time and what alternative answers - if any - were offered.

Maybe I'm just too old but I remember knowing all about the Holocaust (well not all - but I was certainly aware of it and where Auschwitz was) before I actually went to secondary school! I don't actually remember studying anything about WWII at school at all. The curriculum at the time I was there was The Jacobite Rebellion(s). If not my parents talking about the war and the events of it then other members of the family would talk about it. When I went to friend's houses their families also talked about it. I also remember watching dramas like Family At War and real programs (as opposed to 'reality' programs) like World At War and All Our Yesterdays. Without sounding condescending we were probably a far better informed youth than today in that they only have soaps, X-Factor, Britain's Got Talent, etc.

 

It is daft for people to say 'its in the past and history is only relevant to historians'. If that's the case then we'll never learn from past mistakes. But maybe it is too late for that anyway.

 

Norma

Edited April 4, 200916 yr by Norma_Snockers

I'm sorry but I have to reply to this, now that is the most stupid comment I have ever read on here.

 

History is important, Stalin, Chruchill, Hitler are part of our history etc etc, I had to learn all about Jutland, Crimea, Vietnam and I found it all interesting, Geography is essential if a person wants to travel the world, I don't know how you could come up with that statement, the young have to know what the world has been through, people have died for our country.

 

Seriously... if you are drunk get of the flipping net.

 

I agree! I know this is a bit late so please forgive me ...

 

But seriously if we forget about the past, how can we make the present a better place? The past is important because we can look back and see what we did wrong, and hopefully not let such a thing happen again. Although I'm sure such things that happened to the Jews are still happening in the world today, such as in Africa. I'm thinking of something which happened quite recentley (I assume), but nothing is coming to me. What Hitler did was pure discrimination, and discrimination is still happening. Not on his level, but it still happens. The discrimination against Jews is just as bad as discrimination against skin colour, sexuality etc. Because it boils down to that they were different.

 

As for that I think it's terrible, but then again a lot of schools pick and choose what they teach students, my old school did. But we did Nazi, concentration camps etc. But we also did about it in RE when I was 11, we watched this film based on Anne Frank's diary. Since then, I have been really interested in it.

Edited April 5, 200916 yr by Lyricaldreamer

Considering it was a multiple choice question with four options it really does not excuse the results in the slightest.

Going back to the original post ^

 

The Daily Mail (17/03/2009) did a follow up comparing it to a similar Gallup multiple choice poll carried out 25 years earlier (in 1984) amongst a sample of 1350 UK Comprehensive School children for a comparison:

 

Those results from 1984 were as follows:

 

98% could correctly name the Prime Minister (Margaret Thatcher) & 86% could name the Labour opposition leader (Neil Kinnock); whilst 92% could name the President of the United States (Ronald Reagan). Impressively 83% could correctly name the author of "The Diary of a Young Girl" (Anne Frank). Whilst 82% could name the Ocean in which the Falkland Islands are situated (Atlantic Ocean).

 

However whilst yesterday's children were more knowledgeable with regards to Politics; History & Geography they were less knowledgeable with regards to Popular Culture.

 

Just 57% could correctly name the surname shared by three members of the UK's then biggest pop band Duran Duran (Taylor). The same percentage 57% could name from the four options the host of BBC1's Saturday evenings Light Entertainment show The Late Late Breakfast Show (Noel Edmonds). Whilst only 47% could correctly name the national manager of England's Football Team (Bobby Robson).

 

In short Suedehead's post has been proven to be a load of rubbish. Unless you regard Jade Goody as a more important figure in today's society than Barrack Obama.

 

tbh i dont think its a very fair comparison. the thing about polls is that you dont know exactly what questiions were asked and if there were multiple choices or not, besides did they survey kids from equal backgrounds in the surveys? 84's could have been a 'high acheiver' school whilst 09's could be 'under acheivers'.. and i think the news was far more 'in yer face' in the early 80's as thatcher stirred things up, miners strike, falklands war etc.. it was a time for political polarisation unlike now where brown/cammeron are practically the same person.

tbh i dont think its a very fair comparison. the thing about polls is that you dont know exactly what questiions were asked and if there were multiple choices or not, besides did they survey kids from equal backgrounds in the surveys? 84's could have been a 'high acheiver' school whilst 09's could be 'under acheivers'.. and i think the news was far more 'in yer face' in the early 80's as thatcher stirred things up, miners strike, falklands war etc.. it was a time for political polarisation unlike now where brown/cammeron are practically the same person.

 

If you dont think that these times are ripe for Political Polarisation, then frankly you're asleep..... I think the Recession and the banking crisis has made people wake up a great deal to what's going on in our system.....

 

If you dont think that these times are ripe for Political Polarisation, then frankly you're asleep..... I think the Recession and the banking crisis has made people wake up a great deal to what's going on in our system.....

 

it might be, but its not happening.

it might be, but its not happening.

 

Well, tbh mate, I think you could be wrong... I reckon that Fred the Shred's home and the RBS in the City being trashed in the past couple of weeks is just the beginning tbh..... More interesting stuff is gonna come....

 

Well, tbh mate, I think you could be wrong... I reckon that Fred the Shred's home and the RBS in the City being trashed in the past couple of weeks is just the beginning tbh..... More interesting stuff is gonna come....

 

it may well happen, i just cant see any evidence yet, besides the tories and labour are so close now politically it would take years for them to become 'opposites' again like thatch/kinnock.

it may well happen, i just cant see any evidence yet, besides the tories and labour are so close now politically it would take years for them to become 'opposites' again like thatch/kinnock.

 

I would say then that the most effective voice for opposition may actually come from the Lib Dems... If anyone has come out of this crisis with the most credibility, it's almost certainly been Vince Cable....

 

The facts are, no one trusts Nu Labor anymore and a lot of people are seriously dubious about Cameron and Osbourne as well..... I can't see how the Tories would've done things any differently no matter how much noise they're making.....

 

I'm surprised by the Anne Frank figure unless the alternative answers were clearly ridiculous - or the book had been in the news just before the question was asked.

I remember doing FAR too much about Anne Frank in primary school around 2002/3 when i was only 7 or 8. And we didn't even learn that she was Jewish or part of The Holocaust :lol:. I vividly remember that in hindsight. wtf?