Bit personal isn't it! I don't think Ercola is cheap, because it flopped and not that many have heard it. I don't know if I will choose it in the end though.

 

As foe the not-good-enough-for-Eurovision argument, I think people are following the blinkered BBC view of ESC, that it's just a joke and full of trash. But in Europe, it's something of great importance and pride, and that great songwriters and artists try to enter in, and sometimes fail. Basically were arguing here over whether or not we can enter pop songs which are among the best in Europe. To me, it makes no sense to vote no.

 

good point ^_^ just because a song doesn't win the national final doesn't instantly make it awful...only 1 song can win in Melodifestivalen out of 32, that doesn't mean by default the other 31 are bad :heehee: on the contrary, the winner Malena Ernman has had nowhere near the biggest selling MF related single in Sweden this year. E.M.D.'s Baby Goodbye was No.1 for 3 weeks despite only coming 3rd in the contest, I don't think anyone in Sweden views it as 'a Eurovision loser' :heehee:

Thanks. Sorry for my spelling, using web on phone :heehee:

No, they want to enter songs that weren't good enough for Eurovision, even better eh?

 

I know the main argument for adding NF songs is "people have sent 'Love Story' and 'Jai Ho', how are these more cheap?!". I'm not saying they are more cheap, they're not, but they are still fairly cheap in a different dimension. They're songs aimed at the Eurovision crowd. A crowd this contest was initially aimed at, it's the fact that the roots of this contest are quite Eurovision based. Just like if this contest was launched on a Britney forum I would expect a ban on Britney songs or if Buzzjack was an X Factor fansite, I would think a ban on X Factor contestants to be in place.

 

Things have changed and the contest is much less Eurovision based but we still have Rich, Pavel, Tyron, David, Sabrewulf, Peter, Cal and Jerick at least as regulars (or on/off) entrants to the contest. It doesn't mean that they're going to automaticaly like every NF song (of course they wont) but no one is going to be sending the awful entries, probably the ones you all love.

 

Are these artists so bad that they can only be defined by their one or two entries to a past NF? The answer is no. Sanna, Maria HS, Sibel, Haffi Haff, Dima Bilan, Alcazar, Ani Lorak etc. have all been used in NFs or actual Eurovision and have made the BJSC with alternate songs. I don't see the issue in downloading raiding their albums to see if they have an equally 'amazing' track if they're so good.

 

I think Mark put it best really...

 

I'm surprised how close this, it's certainly no landslide. Even if yes wins, it's been quite close and it's much easier to vote yes than no. If you vote yes it could be "yes, but I'm really not bothered" and the no voters would generally disagree, rather than voting to be a bitch.

 

I agree with this, pretty much.

 

Again, I'm not overly fussed is they get unbanned, but I'd be a bit apprehensive about the next contest. Obviously with the rule unbanned there will be a flood of NF entries and maybe in the next contest none, but I'd hate to see the same people voting for the same songs. :/ And like Aaron said, while I don't think people will automatically vote for NF songs, they're going to send the ones they know other people already like. I can't really imagine that the people who don't already like Eurovision will suddenly fall in love with these songs. Like I said, out of all the songs I've ever heard entered into the competition, Divine is the only one I've ever liked. The rest of them sound cheesy and ridiculous honestly. And I already liked Sebastien Tellier. It's nothing against foreign songs / different languages whatsoever (some of my favorite artists are foreign: Bjork, Shugo Tokumaru, Sigur Ros, etc.) I just honestly doubt that a song that didn't even make the competition will change my mind.

 

I understand that cheap entries are allowed which can be unfortunate, but usually in each contest only one does well. Yes, we had Jai Ho but other than that nearly the entire final was cheap free. Love Story bombed in the last competition. There's always going to be a 'cheap' entry, but the more unknown songs tend to pull through in the end. I don't really think it's an issue. None have won, which is a good thing (yes Love Story and I Kissed a Girl have won, but those won weeks before they were hits).

 

 

 

I agree with this, pretty much.

 

Again, I'm not overly fussed is they get unbanned, but I'd be a bit apprehensive about the next contest. Obviously with the rule unbanned there will be a flood of NF entries and maybe in the next contest none, but I'd hate to see the same people voting for the same songs. :/ And like Aaron said, while I don't think people will automatically vote for NF songs, they're going to send the ones they know other people already like. I can't really imagine that the people who don't already like Eurovision will suddenly fall in love with these songs. Like I said, out of all the songs I've ever heard entered into the competition, Divine is the only one I've ever liked. The rest of them sound cheesy and ridiculous honestly. And I already liked Sebastien Tellier. It's nothing against foreign songs / different languages whatsoever (some of my favorite artists are foreign: Bjork, Shugo Tokumaru, Sigur Ros, etc.) I just honestly doubt that a song that didn't even make the competition will change my mind.

 

I understand that cheap entries are allowed which can be unfortunate, but usually in each contest only one does well. Yes, we had Jai Ho but other than that nearly the entire final was cheap free. Love Story bombed in the last competition. There's always going to be a 'cheap' entry, but the more unknown songs tend to pull through in the end. I don't really think it's an issue. None have won, which is a good thing (yes Love Story and I Kissed a Girl have won, but those won weeks before they were hits).

 

Love Song :smoke: I should have sent that way earlier too, it was in the top 3 of my chart in November 2007 before I even knew it would be a hit in the US so I don't know why I didn't send it to BJSCI in all honesty -_-

I don't think voting Yes is easier. It's just making the contest more open.

 

I do understand how annoying it would be to have a contest with 15 NF songs in it. However, I don't think it would get that bad. I'd only enter an NF entry when I feel it's the right time. I know for a fact I'm not going to jump in and send one immediately. There are many more entries I'd like to send first that are totally Eurovision unrelated.

 

As for NF songs appealing to one particular bunch of people, I don't think that's really how it is. That's like saying only Britney songs would appeal to Britney fans. I'm no Brit fan, but some songs are listenable. :lol:

 

And who cares if people vote for it? What's wrong with voting for a song you like? You vote for "cheap" songs and then complain about how cheap they are, so meh to that. And the NF songs I like rarely appeal to larger crowds, so I wouldn't be submitting a song on the basis of everybody will love it. I adore two NF songs, but I don't think anybody here actually liked them, so my entry would be purely because I like it.

I don't think voting Yes is easier. It's just making the contest more open.

 

I do understand how annoying it would be to have a contest with 15 NF songs in it. However, I don't think it would get that bad. I'd only enter an NF entry when I feel it's the right time. I know for a fact I'm not going to jump in and send one immediately. There are many more entries I'd like to send first that are totally Eurovision unrelated.

 

As for NF songs appealing to one particular bunch of people, I don't think that's really how it is. That's like saying only Britney songs would appeal to Britney fans. I'm no Brit fan, but some songs are listenable. :lol:

 

And who cares if people vote for it? What's wrong with voting for a song you like? You vote for "cheap" songs and then complain about how cheap they are, so meh to that. And the NF songs I like rarely appeal to larger crowds, so I wouldn't be submitting a song on the basis of everybody will love it. I adore two NF songs, but I don't think anybody here actually liked them, so my entry would be purely because I like it.

 

good point ^_^ of course it's easy to argue 'oh well Pavel and Rich will vote for it just because it's Eurovision and they're Eurovision fans'. At the same time, artists like Robyn, Pussycat Dolls, Girls Aloud etc...already have established fanbases on BJ so are obviously going to have an instant advantage over a completely unknown act...

 

I can apprecitate that entering a widely liked ESC NF song would be another way to potentially gain an advantage in the contest, but how is this different to the obvious advantage gained by sending a highly anticipated leaked new single by a superstar or Buzzjack favourite -_-

 

and whatever advantage it had would most certainly be outweighed by the disadvantage of having the 18 no voters in this poll boycotting the songs at the voting stage anyway :heehee:

Farahtyn votes yes, a bet the fact we actualy voted shocked most of u

As foe the not-good-enough-for-Eurovision argument, I think people are following the blinkered BBC view of ESC, that it's just a joke and full of trash. But in Europe, it's something of great importance and pride, and that great songwriters and artists try to enter in, and sometimes fail.

I suppose you have a point. I don't think Eurovision is trash but they kinda have to be listened to in context. Sweden's entry, "Hero", last year was typical schlager. In terms of Eurovision entries it was quite fun and rather epic. But a year later, listening to it out of context makes it feel a bit trashy. I'll still listen to some of last years Eurovision entries but it's not the sort of thing I'd vote for in the BJSC.

 

As a Eurovision song Sanna's "Nobody Without You" would be a great entry, but in the BJSC I don't find it exciting. I think I have it a couple of points in the semi, but there was more worthy songs in the final. I guess that does make me sound a bit of a snob. Basically my expectations in the BJSC are much higher than they are in Eurovision, I expect a different kind of song here.

 

I don't think voting Yes is easier. It's just making the contest more open.

 

I do understand how annoying it would be to have a contest with 15 NF songs in it. However, I don't think it would get that bad. I'd only enter an NF entry when I feel it's the right time. I know for a fact I'm not going to jump in and send one immediately. There are many more entries I'd like to send first that are totally Eurovision unrelated.

 

As for NF songs appealing to one particular bunch of people, I don't think that's really how it is. That's like saying only Britney songs would appeal to Britney fans. I'm no Brit fan, but some songs are listenable. :lol:

 

And who cares if people vote for it? What's wrong with voting for a song you like? You vote for "cheap" songs and then complain about how cheap they are, so meh to that. And the NF songs I like rarely appeal to larger crowds, so I wouldn't be submitting a song on the basis of everybody will love it. I adore two NF songs, but I don't think anybody here actually liked them, so my entry would be purely because I like it.

But it is. Obviously people who vote yes will feel strongly about it, but it's also quite easy to say yes if you're in the middle. Maybe there should have been a middle ground option - it would probably win.

 

Well obviously they have the possibility of branching out to other people, but Eurovision is quite a specific thing with a big fanbase. It's not quite like sending Britney, but it's fairly similar. Artists with big fanbases rarely do well anyway. The most recent entries by Britney, Rihanna and Girls Aloud all 'flopped'. Sure, Britney won the first contest and Girls Aloud have finished 3rd, but I doubt anyone will send them. It's almost an unwritten rule, the second someone goes to reserve Britney, Rihanna, Leona etc. they received pleas to send something else...

 

Perhaps you wouldn't send NF songs everyone liked. But while they were briefly allowed, people rushed to reserve very well respected NF songs by Cyndi, Leona Daly and Tone. Even I know people kicked up a bit of a fuss at the first two missing out. (I know people basically love Alexander anyway)

 

good point ^_^ of course it's easy to argue 'oh well Pavel and Rich will vote for it just because it's Eurovision and they're Eurovision fans'. At the same time, artists like Robyn, Pussycat Dolls, Girls Aloud etc...already have established fanbases on BJ so are obviously going to have an instant advantage over a completely unknown act...

 

I can apprecitate that entering a widely liked ESC NF song would be another way to potentially gain an advantage in the contest, but how is this different to the obvious advantage gained by sending a highly anticipated leaked new single by a superstar or Buzzjack favourite -_-

 

and whatever advantage it had would most certainly be outweighed by the disadvantage of having the 18 no voters in this poll boycotting the songs at the voting stage anyway :heehee:

The thing is with these 'unknown acts' is that Eurovision has a big following here, it's unlikely that people wouldn't have at least heard of them. It's not quite like PCD having a fanbase though. I think people still need to send GOOD songs by these artists. As I said Girls Aloud, Rihanna, Britney (arguably the three biggest artists on Buzzjack) have had their fair share of flops recently.

 

It's no different to sending a newly leaked single by a Buzzjack favourite, but why would you want to add more advantages? Especially when it's getting harder to qualify recently. If people can have more advantages, they'll start getting more desperate and start sending even MORE cheap entries. Hey, if you can finish 7th with a current top 3 hit, why should we worry trying to find something more obscure? Let's just send "Love Sex Magic" and be done with.

 

Anyway, we haven't really had an anticipated new leak sent for some time. "So What" was the last one I can remember. Jonjo's entry prevented "Womanizer", MLWSWY leaked too late and "Forgive Me", "The Promise" and "Keeps Gettin' Better" had others pleading that people didn't send them.

 

I really fail to understand why people want them suddenly? I know they've been pined for in the past, but they've found album tracks and done really well with them. It seems like a lot more people than expected (I thought there would be about 3 no voters) object to this, yet nearly no one has problems with people sending "Nobody Without You" etc. I don't know why people would be so desperate to send these sorts of songs with 18 people already thinking it's a bad idea and that's before you consider that the yes voters wont necessarily like your song. ;)

 

OH and in the likely event that yes ends up winning. I urge the moderators to ban entries from the last three years. I know this is just another stipulation, but at least it's long enough for people to be less crazed about them.

When was the ban repealed originally? I know that there was a possibility to enter NF songs except those from the UK, Ireland and Sweden during the buildup to BJSCXV - was it true for BJSCXIV too?

When was the ban repealed originally? I know that there was a possibility to enter NF songs except those from the UK, Ireland and Sweden during the buildup to BJSCXV - was it true for BJSCXIV too?

 

The rule has always been in place but I believe has gone relatively unchallenged until the last couple of contests.

there was one occasion that a Melodifestivalen song 'somehow' slipped through the net (when I was hosting no less in V) and BWO's Temple Of Love came in an impressive 2nd place instantly proving the validity of these tacky low budget Eurovision motivated productions :heehee:

When was the ban repealed originally? I know that there was a possibility to enter NF songs except those from the UK, Ireland and Sweden during the buildup to BJSCXV - was it true for BJSCXIV too?

I can't remember when but it was recently scaled down to be just the UK, Ireland and Sweden banned. an then the attempt to remove it fully did not go well.

 

Yes has it at 23-18 right now, with 42 votes in total.

 

I must say everyone's done pretty well not to let it descend into nasty arguments!

I have decided that I won't be using or considering any ESC National Final songs this month now :heehee:

But it is. Obviously people who vote yes will feel strongly about it, but it's also quite easy to say yes if you're in the middle. Maybe there should have been a middle ground option - it would probably win.

 

Well obviously they have the possibility of branching out to other people, but Eurovision is quite a specific thing with a big fanbase. It's not quite like sending Britney, but it's fairly similar. Artists with big fanbases rarely do well anyway. The most recent entries by Britney, Rihanna and Girls Aloud all 'flopped'. Sure, Britney won the first contest and Girls Aloud have finished 3rd, but I doubt anyone will send them. It's almost an unwritten rule, the second someone goes to reserve Britney, Rihanna, Leona etc. they received pleas to send something else...

 

Perhaps you wouldn't send NF songs everyone liked. But while they were briefly allowed, people rushed to reserve very well respected NF songs by Cyndi, Leona Daly and Tone. Even I know people kicked up a bit of a fuss at the first two missing out. (I know people basically love Alexander anyway)

 

Yeah, but if I'm going to be picky, voting Yes if you're in the middle is fairer. Keeping a ban on these songs will most likely strengthen the opposition to the ban. You're being told you can't enter X, but somebody can send Y which was a top 10 hit in numerous countries. Lifting this rule would be lifting restrictions on some good songs (There are some truly awful NF songs which deserve to come last, imo).

 

This is for everybody in favor of the ban: I don't see something here, and maybe I'm blind, but how exactly is it fair to ban NF songs and allow other songs which could possibly have a huge fan base on this forum? I've seen some godawful chart songs get into the final, and a few really good songs lose out because of them. I find the mentality a bit hypocritical. One reason for disallowing NF songs is because they could potentially have a fanbase, but chart toppers which already have a large fanbase are allowed. Surely if it's "all about the song", which a lot of you stood by during the "cheap" debate, then you should apply that to NF songs too?

 

I really don't mind the outcome. But if "cheap" songs are allowed, then I'd like restrictions. We are all quite capable of putting restrictions on NF songs, I'm sure we could find a way to put restrictions on "cheap" songs. Restricting that type of song isn't difficult.

I have decided that I won't be using or considering any ESC National Final songs this month now :heehee:

Me too tbh. except Snalla Snalla. The MF/etc obsession is starting to get down to zero, being replaced by the actual eurovision one :kink:

I voted No, some members would rather send some decent music rather dross from actual Eurovision countries, what's the point. Mind you there was some dross in BJSC15, which I was amazed that got thru to the final.

:mellow: What the hell are you on about? Have you even HEARD some of the stuff in Melodifestivalen? I can guarantee that you'd like at least a few of the songs, and to my mind you have definitely liked Eurovision songs before...

I suppose you have a point. I don't think Eurovision is trash but they kinda have to be listened to in context. Sweden's entry, "Hero", last year was typical schlager. In terms of Eurovision entries it was quite fun and rather epic. But a year later, listening to it out of context makes it feel a bit trashy. I'll still listen to some of last years Eurovision entries but it's not the sort of thing I'd vote for in the BJSC.

 

As a Eurovision song Sanna's "Nobody Without You" would be a great entry, but in the BJSC I don't find it exciting. I think I have it a couple of points in the semi, but there was more worthy songs in the final. I guess that does make me sound a bit of a snob. Basically my expectations in the BJSC are much higher than they are in Eurovision, I expect a different kind of song here.

But it is. Obviously people who vote yes will feel strongly about it, but it's also quite easy to say yes if you're in the middle. Maybe there should have been a middle ground option - it would probably win.

 

Well obviously they have the possibility of branching out to other people, but Eurovision is quite a specific thing with a big fanbase. It's not quite like sending Britney, but it's fairly similar. Artists with big fanbases rarely do well anyway. The most recent entries by Britney, Rihanna and Girls Aloud all 'flopped'. Sure, Britney won the first contest and Girls Aloud have finished 3rd, but I doubt anyone will send them. It's almost an unwritten rule, the second someone goes to reserve Britney, Rihanna, Leona etc. they received pleas to send something else...

 

Perhaps you wouldn't send NF songs everyone liked. But while they were briefly allowed, people rushed to reserve very well respected NF songs by Cyndi, Leona Daly and Tone. Even I know people kicked up a bit of a fuss at the first two missing out. (I know people basically love Alexander anyway)

The thing is with these 'unknown acts' is that Eurovision has a big following here, it's unlikely that people wouldn't have at least heard of them. It's not quite like PCD having a fanbase though. I think people still need to send GOOD songs by these artists. As I said Girls Aloud, Rihanna, Britney (arguably the three biggest artists on Buzzjack) have had their fair share of flops recently.

 

It's no different to sending a newly leaked single by a Buzzjack favourite, but why would you want to add more advantages? Especially when it's getting harder to qualify recently. If people can have more advantages, they'll start getting more desperate and start sending even MORE cheap entries. Hey, if you can finish 7th with a current top 3 hit, why should we worry trying to find something more obscure? Let's just send "Love Sex Magic" and be done with.

 

Anyway, we haven't really had an anticipated new leak sent for some time. "So What" was the last one I can remember. Jonjo's entry prevented "Womanizer", MLWSWY leaked too late and "Forgive Me", "The Promise" and "Keeps Gettin' Better" had others pleading that people didn't send them.

 

I really fail to understand why people want them suddenly? I know they've been pined for in the past, but they've found album tracks and done really well with them. It seems like a lot more people than expected (I thought there would be about 3 no voters) object to this, yet nearly no one has problems with people sending "Nobody Without You" etc. I don't know why people would be so desperate to send these sorts of songs with 18 people already thinking it's a bad idea and that's before you consider that the yes voters wont necessarily like your song. ;)

 

OH and in the likely event that yes ends up winning. I urge the moderators to ban entries from the last three years. I know this is just another stipulation, but at least it's long enough for people to be less crazed about them.

I can, to a degree, see what you mean, but don't necessarily see it as an argument against banning these songs - in some cases the song submitted to Eurovision is one of the best on the album, and as Rich has said before, ones that have been sent (Nobody Without You etc.) were probably in contention for entry along with Empty Room et al. Would you have banned Will You Remember Me Tomorrow? on the basis that it could have been a potential entry, or Agnes' Release Me? (Yes, I know they weren't but bear with me :P) These are songs that are amongst the defining ones of the competition, yet had they been in contention for a separate contest, and not even gone through, they wouldn't have been allowed.

 

And by the way, the argument that if it doesn't get sent to Eurovision it must be worse is a load of crap. Are we now saying that Scooch/Dustin had inherently better songs than Cyndi/Leona just because they were sent? :P Let's have it done with and just go argumentum ad populum with it all and proclaim Crazy Frog superior to Coldplay! :lol:

 

I think a post-Eurovision clause would be enough - by the same token, we would ban anything from the past three years in case people were crazed about them :P Having it so that the entries can't be sent until after the Eurovision of that year would be enough, no?

 

And looking at half the arguments of the no-voters, they're arguing from a rather blinkered base of 'if it didn't make Eurovision it must be $h!t. BAN IT.' - hardly a credible argument when we allow pretty much anything non-Eurovision in :rolleyes:

I don't really care. Like, I said before, I voted no. I was just thinking to myself, people are moaning about cheap songs all the time, and saying how you think it's annoying that they do well, and you may aswell just enter a chart song, etc etc.

 

But, from my view, Eurovision songs are fairly cheap also, but yet, it seems as if, if its Eurovision cheap then its alright. It's nowhere near chart-cheap, I understand this, but it is cheap to an extent.

 

I can just see loads of people wanting to send Eurovision entries now, which to me seems a shame. But, that's speaking on behalf of myself only.

Who are these 'loads'? :lol: Already me and Rich NOT wanting to send anything means something :kink:

But if we're willing to disallow Eurovision failures because they're "cheap to an extent", then how can we allow songs that are just plain "cheap"? It just seems unfair and a load of empty talk, tbh. :nocheer:

 

Like I said before, I'm not fussed, and I probably won't use one, but I just think it's unfair that those types of entries are blacklisted for flawed reasons.