So still going with the original proposal RE: AF Extension then?

 

basically yep :lol:

basically yep :lol:

Thats fine by me :kink:

 

I'm quite happy to go with my original proposal ^_^

Any discussion on whether the present rules could do with changing, or whether we need some more clear interpretations etc.?

No idea now, I've said what I think and I've got no more ideas - what would be best is some sort of combination of the mods suggestions and some of these in this thread, but it's up to you, Tom, Phil and Aaron how exactly you lay them out - from what I can guage, yes people are fed up with cheap and at the very least, something needs to be done about it. In summary from what I can see;

 

1) the banlist is a fairly popular idea - as long as it's chosen democratically and not solely by the mods

2) the AF extension rules (current era not eligible) is a decent rule but with some problems obviously (some acts really aren't cheap but it would be problematic to keep some in)

3) banning the playlists/charts needs to be more thought out if implemented at all - I wouldn't mind seeing all of the Radio 1 playlist banned but don't penalise something that lands on it after the confirmations have ended - of course then you have people complaining that Paolo Nutini's single etc...is too 'un-BJSC' to warrant banning...

4) disqualifying or marking down an entry midway through a contest would be wildly unpopular and not very fair

 

I actually really liked all of your original proposals, apart from the mid-contest disqualification, but obviously there are flaws with everything you've suggested, as well as everything I suggested and anything anyone else could possibly hope to suggest because in a contest like this you will NEVER please everyone. Not an easy task at all...good luck with this one :P

Well currently I'm not exactly sure what the rules are and what modifcations, if any, were made to the rules.

 

I'm not sure if were back to everything being banned (:() or if the nomination thing means we don't need those etc. BAH.

Well currently I'm not exactly sure what the rules are and what modifcations, if any, were made to the rules.

 

I'm not sure if were back to everything being banned (:() or if the nomination thing means we don't need those etc. BAH.

 

I thought the mods would have been discussing this in your secret forum :o

I thought the mods would have been discussing this in your secret forum :o

You would think so...

 

I think you've rounded it up pretty well. But I'd personally keep the AF rule to the old 2 singles one. Since when have the cheaper artists had major hits with album tracks? I can only recall "Alejandro". Britney, Shakira, Girls Aloud, Black Eyed Peas and Lily Allen all had bad results or even DNQed. :o The last win by an AF artist with an album track I can recall is "Black Butta", which is generally regarded as a positive turning point of the contest.

 

If we're going ahead with the banlist nominations, I'm not sure we need the playlists and chart rule as well. That really would get people just nominating things such as Popjustice songs of the day or something featured on the selected blogs.

Well currently I'm not exactly sure what the rules are and what modifcations, if any, were made to the rules.

 

I'm not sure if were back to everything being banned (:() or if the nomination thing means we don't need those etc. BAH.

I think we're going ahead with the 'democratic ban-list' proposal by Rich...perhaps a vote on which AFs to subject to an era-ban (people have commented on the cheapness of Outta My Head/GaGa etc.)? I don't think we need the charts/playlist ban if we have the democratic ban-list.

You would think so...

 

I think you've rounded it up pretty well. But I'd personally keep the AF rule to the old 2 singles one. Since when have the cheaper artists had major hits with album tracks? I can only recall "Alejandro". Britney, Shakira, Girls Aloud, Black Eyed Peas and Lily Allen all had bad results or even DNQed. :o The last win by an AF artist with an album track I can recall is "Black Butta", which is generally regarded as a positive turning point of the contest.

 

If we're going ahead with the banlist nominations, I'm not sure we need the playlists and chart rule as well. That really would get people just nominating things such as Popjustice songs of the day or something featured on the selected blogs.

 

I see where you're coming from - GaGa is a phenomenon so 7th is probably the best a song like this could possibly do - this rule is not something I overly care about either way to be honest - I rarely vote for these tracks anyway, if only because I buy all of the albums by these acts and I'm bored of the selected songs by the time they get round to being sent :lol:

 

I agree, it should be one or the other - no need for both, the really cheap things on the playlists will pop up on the banlist if people are that passionate about not seeing them in the contest...

I think we're going ahead with the 'democratic ban-list' proposal by Rich...perhaps a vote on which AFs to subject to an era-ban (people have commented on the cheapness of Outta My Head/GaGa etc.)? I don't think we need the charts/playlist ban if we have the democratic ban-list.

 

I don't think Outta My Head would do any better than 12th-15th in the final to be honest no matter how good it is...like Aaron said, these songs aren't really a threat

and also can we just skip reservation thread :heehee: straight to the confirmation would be much more fun and fight.

and also can we just skip reservation thread :heehee: straight to the confirmation would be much more fun and fight.

 

I remember when we only ever had a song confirmation thread! what was the need for the artist confirmation thread anyway? so people could hold onto 4 artists they won't end up using and deprive somebody else of the chance of sending them - all this talk about fair, that's the most unfair rule here :kink:

 

Would be a lot more nerve-wracking if you couldn't 'reserve' any artists wouldn't it :lol: there would be a hell of a lot of early confirmations!

 

I'm joking - I have no problem with it :P

I see where you're coming from - GaGa is a phenomenon so 7th is probably the best a song like this could possibly do - this rule is not something I overly care about either way to be honest - I rarely vote for these tracks anyway, if only because I buy all of the albums by these acts and I'm bored of the selected songs by the time they get round to being sent :lol:

 

I agree, it should be one or the other - no need for both, the really cheap things on the playlists will pop up on the banlist if people are that passionate about not seeing them in the contest...

Exactly, I can't think of a single artist with a forum bigger than GaGa at the moment and that track is almost universally loved, so I can't see much finishing higher than 7th unless the album leaks the day confirmation closes or something. Yeah, I'll usually mark them down if it's an album I have ("Alejandro" would have got my 10 last time, but it got 5) I don't think it's a coincidence that something lesser known, like "Soul Survivor" finished higher than the artists I mentioned in my previous post.

 

I don't think Outta My Head would do any better than 12th-15th in the final to be honest no matter how good it is...like Aaron said, these songs aren't really a threat

I also agree with this, it's too late for it to be a major threat now. Perhaps if the album had just came out, but at that time we thought it was the second single so it wouldn't have been sent. Raiding albums is rarely the cause of our 'problems'.

I remember when we only ever had a song confirmation thread! what was the need for the artist confirmation thread anyway? so people could hold onto 4 artists they won't end up using and deprive somebody else of the chance of sending them - all this talk about fair, that's the most unfair rule here :heehee:

 

I think it was first introduced to facilitate the long drawn out national finals that people used to do. I don't think people were too impressed at others nicking songs from their national finals or that they had expressed an interest in in their thread.

 

However surely if we were to have just a confirmation thread on its own, first come first served, with changes allowed, it would be just as fair?

Exactly, I can't think of a single artist with a forum bigger than GaGa at the moment and that track is almost universally loved, so I can't see much finishing higher than 7th unless the album leaks the day confirmation closes or something. Yeah, I'll usually mark them down if it's an album I have ("Alejandro" would have got my 10 last time, but it got 5) I don't think it's a coincidence that something lesser known, like "Soul Survivor" finished higher than the artists I mentioned in my previous post.

 

No more than five BJSC participants must own 100% so Soul Survivor was obviously a discovery to most. No more than five BJSC participants don't own The Fame Monster I expect :heehee:

Could we also probably have a look at what artists have done well in BJSC? For example Bev Knight may not seem cheap, but she has won this very contest before and had one or two more Top 10's, one of which was the last time she was entered so she's had a recent Top 10 hit in BJSC.. (She only seems to do well when sent by Aaron though :lol:) That to me is far more "cheaper" for this contest as opposed to the banning of the full Top 40/Radio 1 playlist or whatever...

 

I really don't know what could be done, but if you're going ahead with the ban of cheap songs for one contest (as a try-out or whatever) then maybe look into this? :unsure:

Could we also probably have a look at what artists have done well in BJSC? For example Bev Knight may not seem cheap, but she has won this very contest before and had one or two more Top 10's, one of which was the last time she was entered so she's had a recent Top 10 hit in BJSC.. (She only seems to do well when sent by Aaron though :lol:) That to me is far more "cheaper" for this contest as opposed to the banning of the full Top 40/Radio 1 playlist or whatever...

 

I really don't know what could be done, but if you're going ahead with the ban of cheap songs for one contest (as a try-out or whatever) then maybe look into this? :unsure:

 

maybe, as soon as an artist has appeared in 4 contests, they incur a 5 contest ban :kink:

 

or would that just be FAR too many rules :drama:

 

Keri, The Veronicas, Marina, Little Boots and now Wynter Gordon (:mellow:) have been used really far too frequently :(

I think no one should be allowed to be used more than three times every 10 or 12 contests. For instance if Britney Spears were to be used in 1, 4 & 6 she would be banned until 11. If used she would then be banned until 14 etc...

I'm not particularly fond of the idea of removing reservation...I quite like keeping my options open :P

I'm not particularly fond of the idea of removing reservation...I quite like keeping my options open :P

 

I wasn't suggesting we should do it, just wondering how it might change things :P I guess these days, not having a reservation thread might actually increase cheapness in the contest...

 

I can imagine a lot of people quickly confirming the cheapest thing possible for fear of losing out before all of the other well known artists are confirmed by others

 

it wouldn't bother me over much as I don't send high profile artists so wouldn't really worry about losing them