Hamas are going to see the consequences of their evil. Israel should take the entire Gaza strip under their control and all Hamas terrorists should be killed. I want peace but tbh this was only going to go one way and that is war. Israel have managed to build a civilised country and deserve our hope and prayers that they win this war.

The facist dictator in Israel

Why do you spread lies? He is not a facist and isn't a dictator. He is the chosen Prime Minister of Israel, which is the ONLY democratic state in the Middle East. Is Biden a facist dictator, too? :rolleyes:

 

Hamas helped turned Gaza in to hell on the earth. Hamas is not a group which wants peace, for all the crap Israel have done, to my knowledge they ahven't committed mass rape, kidnapped babies & the elderly and parded bodies to be spat on.

Exactly.

Edited October 9, 20231 yr by Voodoo

What are the chances of either using Nuclear? Seen theories of Israel using

What are the chances of either using Nuclear? Seen theories of Israel using

 

They're daft if they do not. Not only is it right on their doorstep, it's one thing to target Hamas bases and targets, it's a completely different proposition to drop a nuclear bomb condeminng millions of innocent people to death. I think Israel would find their allies distance themselves very quickly..

Why do you spread lies? He is not a facist and isn't a dictator. He is the chosen Prime Minister of Israel, which is the ONLY democratic state in the Middle East. Is Biden a facist dictator, too? :rolleyes:

Exactly.

 

Isreal is a democratic country? You are aware of how the state was formed aren’t you?

Isreal is a democratic country? You are aware of how the state was formed aren’t you?

Yes. Israel is a democratic country. It is a fact. Is this news to you? If so, educate yourself.

 

In contrast, since Hamas won the elections in Gaza in 2006, there have been NONE since.

Edited October 9, 20231 yr by Voodoo

Read your history and see how the state was formed to see how democratic it is.

 

That’s like saying N.Ireland is a democratic country…..

Interesting that Haaretz place the blame for this horrific disaster firmly at Benjamin Netanyahu's door.

 

@1711185184177975447

 

Crazy to think that he is still Prime Minister, yet was first elected as PM in 1996 (yes, before Putin). How many other democracies have the same PM nearly 28 years later?

^^THIS!

Interesting that Haaretz place the blame for this horrific disaster firmly at Benjamin Netanyahu's door.

Haaretz is an anti Israeli publication, so no surprises there whatsoever. :coffee:

 

Crazy to think that he is still Prime Minister, yet was first elected as PM in 1996 (yes, before Putin). How many other democracies have the same PM nearly 28 years later?

LMAO. You make it sound like he has been Israel's PM for 28 consecutive years, which is simply NOT the case.

 

He lost the elections in 1999, and only won again in 2009.

 

Angela Merkel served as chancellor of Germany from 2005 to 2021 and I didn't see anyone implying she was a "dictator". :rolleyes:

Yeah I don't want to do the counting thing but very telling of the living situations of both groups that the numbers of Palestinians killed in the retaliation was so quickly a higher number. Tragic deaths on both sides of the conflict.

 

Which doesn't change the idea that Hamas are clearly the least excusable group in all of this, very disheartening that I've seen a bunch of generally left-leaning people who are mostly good at calling out Israeli apartheid seem almost gleeful at this catching the IDF off guard. That isn't going to help the victims in all of this and there's real bloodshed going on out there and makes people who like to think of themselves as more moralistic look monstrous to wrap it up in 'the colonisers are getting what they deserve' language.

 

On the opposite token, also disheartening that Corbyn's 'let's get to the root of the problem and solve peace' tweet got Conservative MPs and commentators firing off various versions of 'disgusting. everyone who supported this man to become PM should be excised from public life' once again. His refusal to condemn Hamas isn't great (and by the same token, Starmer/Sunak's full-on assertion that Israel is 100% in the right isn't great - both statements have their strengths and weaknesses) but it's better than his foreign policy views on Ukraine, at least in this scenario peace doesn't mean capitulating to extremists, because there is no world in which a peaceful resolution involves Hamas.

 

as ever with this subject, a lose for anyone who follows political discourse and likes nuance.

 

I’ve decided to come off Twitter for a while due to this. It’s really disturbing - I’ve seen some videos from that festival and it’s hell on earth, the total lack of empathy from some people (some fairly prominent people at that) is frightening. Where are we headed when a terrorist attack like this on innocent civilians is almost celebrated?

Haaretz is an anti Israeli publication, so no surprises there whatsoever. :coffee:

LMAO. You make it sound like he has been Israel's PM for 28 consecutive years, which is simply NOT the case.

 

He lost the elections in 1999, and only won again in 2009.

 

Angela Merkel served as chancellor of Germany from 2005 to 2021 and I didn't see anyone implying she was a "dictator". :rolleyes:

 

clearly weren't looking in the same places re: Merkel, I saw plenty of that.

 

His stranglehold over Israeli politics is quite un-democratic, Likud essentially is the Netanyahu party and ever since 2009, those short periods when he was out of power only served to eventually put him back in again, in the same manner as Putin. He's not an anti-democratic figure but someone who takes advantage of democracy, and pushes it to its limits in order to hold onto power and his way of doing things (keeping Palestinians oppressed).

 

I’ve decided to come off Twitter for a while due to this. It’s really disturbing - I’ve seen some videos from that festival and it’s hell on earth, the total lack of empathy from some people (some fairly prominent people at that) is frightening. Where are we headed when a terrorist attack like this on innocent civilians is almost celebrated?

 

don't get me wrong I think they're idiots and play into the Israeli far-right's hands by conflating Hamas with all Palestinians but there will always be idiots, just ignore them.

 

However, see the total lack of empathy from nearly every corner of the media when they interview Palestinians and play down the appalling conditions in which many more of them have died over the years.

 

@1711373455935844765

 

Like this for example. See how the interviewer always pivots to asking the ambassador to condemn Hamas and to talk about Hamas, the simple moralistic bent that is important to people watching media right now, which, dreadful though it is, he shouldn't and doesn't focus on that. He wants to provide the answer that is important to him, that his people are in a constant state of systemic suffering due to the control Israel has over their land. He's not a Hamas defender or agent, he's part of the group of Palestinians that is in opposition to them. But the media refuses to listen to systemic explanations about the conflict because that would reveal that Israel's government and military is the more oppressive power and the only one with the power to end the suffering.

This might be a stupid question, but where else were Jewish people supposed to go after World War II exactly?

This might be a stupid question, but where else were Jewish people supposed to go after World War II exactly?

 

It is definitely not a stupid question. It is a very valid one in fact. That is why they decided that the only way to be safe is to have one country in the world where they were not a minority. Throughout history, whenever Jewish people were the minority they were persecuted, murdered violently or made refugees. It is such a complex history of thousand of years of persecution.

 

This does not mean I am condoning Israeli settlement policy. This does not mean I support Netanyahu's right wing government. But you have to understand where it comes from and that is the basic need to survive against all odds throughout history.

 

Now yet again we have almost 50% of the world's whole Jewish population being attacked from all angles. Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran, Syria, Lebanon and Jordan all are raising their heads to say that Israel should not exist. Jews have seen this before, and that is why sadly they have had to surround themselves with such massive military might.

 

Hamas do the Palestinian people no good either. They have in their 1988 charter:

"The Day of Judgment will not come about until Moslems fight Jews and kill them. Then, the Jews will hide behind rocks and trees, and the rocks and trees will cry out: 'O Moslem, there is a Jew hiding behind me, come and kill him."

 

This is what they believe... people on the left want to shout about how this is nothing to do with 'religious hatred' but for Hamas, it is. In black in white in their own words, they believe they have to kill Jewish people in the name of Allah. It is such a shame that people are supporting them and the Palestinians chose a terrorist group who's hate for Jews actively puts Palestinians at danger of even worse living conditions and even more horrible bombing by Israel. But you cannot negotiate with a terrorist organisation who just want the second holocaust.

I believe it's Hamas that is really oppressing the Palestinian people in Gaza, look at what Hamas has brought to the people in Gaza. Hamas have completely taken advantage of them with help from the evil regime in Iran, and don't think all people in Iran support the Palestinians in this, a lot of Iranians know they are being manipulated by their regime over who's right and who's wrong between the Palestinians and Israel.

 

I would use the example of the secular Palestinians in East Jerusalem as the way forward for Israel and Palestinians. There are cases where Israel has successfully managed to help Palestinians integrate and assimilate as part of Israel whilst still holding onto their Palestinian identity but without wanting to destroy the country Israel. I'm not saying it's perfect and you do have clashes there, but it is improving rapidly by having both Palestinians and Israeli Jews live and work together, it's becoming normalised. There are even Arabs Israelis in Israel's parliament.

 

Sometimes walking on eggshells and just talking all the time doesn't work, sometimes you just have to force things through to move things forward.

This might be a stupid question, but where else were Jewish people supposed to go after World War II exactly?

 

What Davidson said above is mostly correct. However, doing it the way it was done, completely ignoring the people already living in the land they took over, is what has led to today's unfortunate situation. It would have been better if they had been able to push for a single state with power-sharing agreements between both Jews and Arab peoples - though of course given the long historical anguish between both peoples that may have also been too hopeful, but that is the only way the violence can end today.

 

Effectively the British Empire took a part of their empire, gave it over to another group to rule over, and you have effectively what used to be Palestine ruled over in a fashion akin to old colonial policy, with two different classes of citizens, those who are Jewish and those who are Arabic. It wasn't the right way to do it then, what would have been the right way, hard to say, but the mistakes of history doesn't mean we should reverse it, anyone calling for all Jews to leave Israel is anti-semitic, Israel will and should remain a country with a large Jewish population. But they should have respected those people who had been living on the land for generations and let them take part in the state too, and instead they've corralled them behind walls and blockades.

 

also the Palestinian election that let Hamas take control of their government is nearly 2 decades old and given that Gaza's population in particular unfortunately skews so young, that result can't be taken as a Palestinian endorsement of Hamas.

Haaretz is an anti Israeli publication, so no surprises there whatsoever. :coffee:

LMAO. You make it sound like he has been Israel's PM for 28 consecutive years, which is simply NOT the case.

 

He lost the elections in 1999, and only won again in 2009.

 

Angela Merkel served as chancellor of Germany from 2005 to 2021 and I didn't see anyone implying she was a "dictator". :rolleyes:

 

I didn't say dictator, that was your choice of term.. which is, interesting. Although for the record Putin did have a gap of 4 years between terms from 2008 to 2012.

 

But by silencing the moderates and kowtowing to the extremists in order to cling to power, he has made a pretty volatile and dangerous situation much much worse for the region. Climate breakdown and associated mass migrations in the following decades will only exacerbate this problem and I really don't see any peaceful resolution or way forward now sadly.

I didn't say dictator, that was your choice of term.. which is, interesting.

You didn't, but Smint did.

 

Also, I'm sure you know what the meaning of the word "imply" is. :rolleyes:

Edited October 11, 20231 yr by Voodoo

Hamas have created an ugly situation. Must say I am very uneasy at what is happening in Gaza and how Israel have gone about things, but the caveat to this is Hamas took the hostages and they knew Israel would do whatever it took to get them back. For all their planning of the terror attacks, they must have factored how Israel would respond as well. But is has to be as soon as Israel recieve their hostages, they need to restore basic human rights to the people of Gaza - this is very quickly where I think the world may distance themselves within the next 48-72 hours depending on how the rescue goes.

Biden said they are beheading children!!! Vile.