http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOANGfahyUI...layer_embedded#!

 

Gabrielle Giffords - "We are on Sarah Palin's targeted list...the way that she has it depicted is of the cross-hairs of a gun-sight over our district"...

 

Errrr, well, that pretty much seems clear cut to me that Sarah Palin and the Tea Party are at least partly responsible for what happened yesterday.. If a Muslim Preacher can be jailed for inciting hatred against the West, then surely Palin should also be cooling her heels in prison for this pretty fukkin' deliberate act that she's committed. The facts are that Palin and her Tea Party whack-jobs have fostered this atmosphere of bigotry and hatred, and it has now finally spilled over into bloodshed of a most tragic kind...

 

 

No, the Tea Party did NOT incite the Arizona Massacre. The primary suspect responsible for the killings was a delusional crackpot*, who cited both the Communist Manifesto and Mein Kampt amongst his favourite books, and hated all government and religion. He was very much a left-wing, so to blame the massacre on the most right-wing party this side of 1921 is a pure stupidity on your part.

 

The Tea Party have a lot to answer for, but this has nothing to do with them.

 

* I await the obvious comment that all members of the Tea Party are delusional crackpots.

http://twitter.com/#!/sarahpalinusa/status/10935548053

 

http://big.assets.huffingtonpost.com/sarahpac_0.jpg

 

 

 

yeah doesnt look like she advocates gun crime towards democrats or anything does it.

 

 

If a Muslim had something like that online, then one of them got shot, where would they be right now?

I don't know whether THIS guy was motivated by the Tea Party's rants - it does seem this guy had a lot of longstanding mental health issues, and as Brett Butler says, looking at his videos, it seems like he was on the anti-establishment hard left rather than the Tea Party right.

 

BUT, frankly, even IF Palin, Glenn Beck and co aren't responsible for this specific case, it would only have been a matter of time before some crackpot WAS inspired specifically by their rantings - it just can't be accepted for these right-wingers to talk about a "call to arms" against Democrats, to call on people to "take them out", to compare Obama to Hitler. Even if the Tea Party isn't responsible for this case, the fact it's shone a harsh light on some of the American right-wing's disgusting rhetoric is a very welcome thing.

BUT, frankly, even IF Palin, Glenn Beck and co aren't responsible for this specific case, it would only have been a matter of time before some crackpot WAS inspired specifically by their rantings - it just can't be accepted for these right-wingers to talk about a "call to arms" against Democrats, to call on people to "take them out", to compare Obama to Hitler. Even if the Tea Party isn't responsible for this case, the fact it's shone a harsh light on some of the American right-wing's disgusting rhetoric is a very welcome thing.

 

As I've said before, this tragedy had absolutely nothing to do with the Tea Party. The suspect in question was a mentally disturbed individual who distrusted ALL political positions, whether conservative, "liberal" or otherwise. Quite frankly using this absolute tragedy to blame on a political party on the complete opposite end of the spectrum is sickening to say the least.

 

As for the Sarah Palin example cited, I very much doubt the shooter in question has ever read Sarah Palin's website, let alone seen the infogram featured here. I don't think that she was inciting violence, she just made a very poor choice of bullet point. If she was inciting violence, she would have said 'take out' rather than 'take back,' and she wouldn't have highlighted the three representatives who were retiring anyway.

 

 

As I've said before, this tragedy had absolutely nothing to do with the Tea Party. The suspect in question was a mentally disturbed individual who distrusted ALL political positions, whether conservative, "liberal" or otherwise. Quite frankly using this absolute tragedy to blame on a political party on the complete opposite end of the spectrum is sickening to say the least.

 

As for the Sarah Palin example cited, I very much doubt the shooter in question has ever read Sarah Palin's website, let alone seen the infogram featured here. I don't think that she was inciting violence, she just made a very poor choice of bullet point. If she was inciting violence, she would have said 'take out' rather than 'take back,' and she wouldn't have highlighted the three representatives who were retiring anyway.

 

I know all that. I said in my post it doesn't look as though this guy had been inspired by the right-wing's rantings.

 

My point was that, even if conservatives aren't to blame in this case, it probably would only have been a matter of time before their rhetoric DID push some nutter into killing someone - it's something liberal commentators in America have been worrying about for some time. And Palin is the poster child for that kind of rhetoric. It goes back to the 2008 election... she was constantly ratcheting up racial tensions, saying Obama "wasn't like most Americans" and, at one rally, someone shouted "Kill Obama" loudly and she didn't say a word about that kind of thing not being appropriate. And over the last couple of years, she has regularly been using this kind of violent imagery and rhetoric, including the crosshairs map and her slogan "Don't Retreat... RELOAD!"

 

Like I say, even if she and other figures on the Right aren't to blame this time, it would most likely only have been a matter of time before that kind of rhetoric was directly responsible for inciting a shooting.

I know that Sarah Palin had nothing to do with the shootings but I hope it really damages her reputation. Also that map of America is completely in bad taste. Only someone as deluded as her would come up with something like that. She hasn't done herself any favours.

I know that Sarah Palin had nothing to do with the shootings but I hope it really damages her reputation. Also that map of America is completely in bad taste. Only someone as deluded as her would come up with something like that. She hasn't done herself any favours.

 

This incident has nothing to do with either Sarah Palin nor the Tea Party. Give it a few months and she/the party will say or do something that will damage her/their reputation, and when that happens by all means gloat (as I intend to do). However, to take the massacre of 6 innocent lives (including a 9 year old girl), and use it for political points scoring when it involves someone not involved with that party is sickening beyond belief.

 

In regards to the map, it's nothing but a poorly chosen infographic that just unfortunately happens to correspond to events. I'm not Sarah Palin's biggest fan, but I doubt that even she would endorse the killing of her most bitter rivals.

 

Be paitent, if you give someone enough rope, you know what they'll do with it. (not that I'm encouraging hanging, I'm just using the terminology)

 

 

Sorry Brett, I understand what it is you're saying, but I simply dont agree with you at all... I think to say that the extremist, hate-filled, macho rhetoric of the Tea Party played no part in this at all is just plain silly..... I mean, we jailed Abu Hamza in this country for supposed "incitement", even though he did not actually have any direct involvement in any violence at all.. Was that right or wrong..? Personally, I think it was right, because he was a hate-preacher whose words MAY have inspired the July 7th bombers or any other crack-pot individual out there.. I also believe that Nick Griffin and the BNP have been guilty of inciting racist violence on the streets of UK, and will still maintain that they should be declared an illegal organisation, and put into the same category as Al Moujharoun and Islam4UK... Anything else is pure hypocrisy in my book, and, unsurprisingly given the hypocrisy of the British political establishment, Griffin remains at large to spread his hatred and poison...

 

Whether or not this guy was a "Palin-voter" or not is irrelevant also, what Palin and Co do is to tap into that psyche of macho, American gun-nut culture, and when you get people such as this riled up under any circumstance, it's gonna lead to disaster one way or another... In short, the Tea Party lit a fuse and didn't really give a sh"t where it was going to blow up.... Make no bones about this, they ARE partly to blame for this, whatever the personal beliefs of this individual (which, as I say, are irrelevant, he was clearly influenced by a lot of the hate-filled rhetoric that had been coming forth regardless). I simply dont believe that it's a coincidence that, long before this even happened, Gifford's offices were targeted, that she and her staff were sent death threats, subject to daily personal vitriolic attacks. And then this shooting... You might believe that it's coincidence, I dont. IT DOESN'T MATTER WHETHER THIS GUY SUPPORTED THE TEA PARTY OR NOT, he was still under the influence of the general atmosphere of hatred and bile that The Tea Party created....

 

 

Sorry Brett, I understand what it is you're saying, but I simply dont agree with you at all... I think to say that the extremist, hate-filled, macho rhetoric of the Tea Party played no part in this at all is just plain silly..... I mean, we jailed Abu Hamza in this country for supposed "incitement", even though he did not actually have any direct involvement in any violence at all.. Was that right or wrong..? Personally, I think it was right, because he was a hate-preacher whose words MAY have inspired the July 7th bombers or any other crack-pot individual out there.. I also believe that Nick Griffin and the BNP have been guilty of inciting racist violence on the streets of UK, and will still maintain that they should be declared an illegal organisation, and put into the same category as Al Moujharoun and Islam4UK... Anything else is pure hypocrisy in my book, and, unsurprisingly given the hypocrisy of the British political establishment, Griffin remains at large to spread his hatred and poison...

 

Whether or not this guy was a "Palin-voter" or not is irrelevant also, what Palin and Co do is to tap into that psyche of macho, American gun-nut culture, and when you get people such as this riled up under any circumstance, it's gonna lead to disaster one way or another... In short, the Tea Party lit a fuse and didn't really give a sh"t where it was going to blow up.... Make no bones about this, they ARE partly to blame for this, whatever the personal beliefs of this individual (which, as I say, are irrelevant, he was clearly influenced by a lot of the hate-filled rhetoric that had been coming forth regardless). I simply dont believe that it's a coincidence that, long before this even happened, Gifford's offices were targeted, that she and her staff were sent death threats, subject to daily personal vitriolic attacks. And then this shooting... You might believe that it's coincidence, I dont. IT DOESN'T MATTER WHETHER THIS GUY SUPPORTED THE TEA PARTY OR NOT, he was still under the influence of the general atmosphere of hatred and bile that The Tea Party created....

That's an unusually measured comment form you! It means it's easy to say I agree with you. The simple answer to your question is no, the Tea Party did not directly incite this gunman. However, their rhetoric with their constant allegations that Obama and his supporters are somehow anti-American was bound to encourage nut jobs to believe that they have a patriotic duty to assassinate some named politicians. Of course Palin wasn't calling for politicians to be assassinated but, with hindsight, some of the language used by her and her supporters was inflammatory.

 

Of course Palin wasn't calling for politicians to be assassinated but, with hindsight, some of the language used by her and her supporters was inflammatory.

 

Well, the Tea Party and their supporters are almost certainly (and very, VERY explicitly) calling for the assassination of Julian Assange...

 

http://www.peopleokwithmurderingassange.com/

 

So, I think we can dispense with the kid gloves here and call these psychopaths, racists and fascists what they really are.....

Well, the Tea Party and their supporters are almost certainly (and very, VERY explicitly) calling for the assassination of Julian Assange...

 

http://www.peopleokwithmurderingassange.com/

 

So, I think we can dispense with the kid gloves here and call these psychopaths, racists and fascists what they really are.....

 

I think it's been clear from the start that they're nothing better than that.

I know i am the only person on this forum who will admit this, but i freaking LOVE Sarah Palin.

 

She's quite possibly the ultimate combination of all that is wrong with the USA combined into a quite frankly hilarious package.

 

 

I'd hate for this woman to get any form of power as she'd be a truly disastrous leader, but i hope she stays in the public eye because she provides so much comedy :wub:

I know i am the only person on this forum who will admit this, but i freaking LOVE Sarah Palin.

 

She's quite possibly the ultimate combination of all that is wrong with the USA combined into a quite frankly hilarious package.

I'd hate for this woman to get any form of power as she'd be a truly disastrous leader, but i hope she stays in the public eye because she provides so much comedy :wub:

You're not the only one on that - she's a truly hilarious car crash of a spectacle.

You're not the only one on that - she's a truly hilarious car crash of a spectacle.

Have you seen the footage of her doing Stand Up on Late Night US TV???? It's GOLD

I know i am the only person on this forum who will admit this, but i freaking LOVE Sarah Palin.

 

She's quite possibly the ultimate combination of all that is wrong with the USA combined into a quite frankly hilarious package.

I'd hate for this woman to get any form of power as she'd be a truly disastrous leader, but i hope she stays in the public eye because she provides so much comedy :wub:

 

She's the sort of person you wouldn't mind spending sixpence to gawp at in Bedlam, but you wouldn't want her to yield any real political power.

Exactly. I would pay to see her live either performing stand up, or reading her manifesto although that's really just political comedy but i'd be $h!t scared if she had real power.

Exactly. I would pay to see her live either performing stand up, or reading her manifesto although that's really just political comedy but i'd be $h!t scared if she had real power.

 

Yeah, ha ha, let's all laugh at "crazy Sarah, the car-crash", and actually forget the fact that she's actually deadly serious about her world-views; just like we all laughed at "Stupid Old Boris" on Have I Got News For You... Let me tell you, VERY few people in London are finding that guy particularly funny since he became the bloody Mayor.....

 

I love Sarah Palin :wub: Id vote for her if was American :wub: