IIRC the last song to chart which was credited as a double A-Side by the OCC was Bombay Bicycle Club's Ivy & Gold (#56 50 weeks ago), which was listed as Ivy & Gold / Flaws. I personally ignore the second A-Side when crediting songs, just to be consistent.

But, if you always list only the first named track, that doesn't create an accurate record. The example I gave above is the obvious example. Your database would show that Buffalo Tom had a top ten hit while Liam Gallagher and Steve Cradock didn't chart at all.

But, if you always list only the first named track, that doesn't create an accurate record. The example I gave above is the obvious example. Your database would show that Buffalo Tom had a top ten hit while Liam Gallagher and Steve Cradock didn't chart at all.

 

I do make exceptions sometimes, but only when the second A-Side was definitely the 'main track' of the double A-Side so to speak. For example I credit Goo Goo Dolls' 'Stay With Me/Iris' as 'Iris'. That song would be another exception.

I do make exceptions sometimes, but only when the second A-Side was definitely the 'main track' of the double A-Side so to speak. For example I credit Goo Goo Dolls' 'Stay With Me/Iris' as 'Iris'. That song would be another exception.

 

 

So you'd be showing the Elton John record as "Candle In the Wind 97"?

So you'd be showing the Elton John record as "Candle In the Wind 97"?

 

Just 'Candle In The Wind' - AFAIC it's a re-recording and not a new song, so I combine it to the original Candle In The Wind. I only give a re-recording a new title if the artist credit also changes (e.g. Guru Josh Project 'Infinity 2008' and Status Quo feat. The Corps Of Army Choir 'In The Army Now (2010)')

 

However, when SATWYLT re-charted at #77 after being used on X Factor last year I did credit it as SATWYLT, since that was the song that was selling.

 

And by the way, for double A-Sides where the two A-Sides were both promoted, I stick to just the first A-Side. So for example Steps - Heartbeat/Tragedy would be 'Heartbeat' and Boney M. - Rivers Of Babylon/Brown Girl In The Ring would be 'Rivers Of Babylon'. There are only a very few examples where I credit a song to its second A-Side.

Edited July 8, 201113 yr by Bré

And by the way, for double A-Sides where the two A-Sides were both promoted, I stick to just the first A-Side. So for example Steps - Heartbeat/Tragedy would be 'Heartbeat' and Boney M. - Rivers Of Babylon/Brown Girl In The Ring would be 'Rivers Of Babylon'. There are only a very few examples where I credit a song to its second A-Side.

 

Really :wacko: I think you'll find Tragedy was (and still is) 10x more popular than 'Heartbeat' - yes they were both promoted but Tragedy became much more popular - I used to love the song (and them :kink:) as a kid.

 

Compare the youtube views

 

Tragedy 253,147 views

Heartbeat 56,287 views

Just 'Candle In The Wind' - AFAIC it's a re-recording and not a new song, so I combine it to the original Candle In The Wind. I only give a re-recording a new title if the artist credit also changes (e.g. Guru Josh Project 'Infinity 2008' and Status Quo feat. The Corps Of Army Choir 'In The Army Now (2010)')

 

However, when SATWYLT re-charted at #77 after being used on X Factor last year I did credit it as SATWYLT, since that was the song that was selling.

 

And by the way, for double A-Sides where the two A-Sides were both promoted, I stick to just the first A-Side. So for example Steps - Heartbeat/Tragedy would be 'Heartbeat' and Boney M. - Rivers Of Babylon/Brown Girl In The Ring would be 'Rivers Of Babylon'. There are only a very few examples where I credit a song to its second A-Side.

But that's where it falls down. Boney M sold a lot of copies on the strength of BGITR. It was suspected at the time that a lot of people bought it twice having never listened to the original b-side :lol:

 

And, to agree with danielMFAO, Tragedy was promoted more than Heartbeat. Of course, in an ideal world, no Steps song would ever have gained any promotion, airplay or even sales.

But that's where it falls down. Boney M sold a lot of copies on the strength of BGITR. It was suspected at the time that a lot of people bought it twice having never listened to the original b-side :lol:

 

And, to agree with danielMFAO, Tragedy was promoted more than Heartbeat. Of course, in an ideal world, no Steps song would ever have gained any promotion, airplay or even sales.

 

I never said anything about which A-Side had more promotion. I said if both are promoted, I credit it as the first one.

 

Besides, my way of crediting songs isn't necessarily meant to be completely accurate, just consistent. I only differ from it when it clearly makes no sense (such as with Goo Goo Dolls 'Stay With Me/Iris')

Edited July 8, 201113 yr by Bré

But that's where it falls down. Boney M sold a lot of copies on the strength of BGITR. It was suspected at the time that a lot of people bought it twice having never listened to the original b-side :lol:

 

And, to agree with danielMFAO, Tragedy was promoted more than Heartbeat. Of course, in an ideal world, no Steps song would ever have gained any promotion, airplay or even sales.

Actually, the thing about Heartbeat / Tragedy is that the former was actually the main single at first - as was written in the "90s Pop Rule Book, Chapter 4", Page 116, Paragraph 3 that dictated that every pop act should release a ballad during the winter/Christmas season, and I believe even the radio played Heartbeat far far more than Tragedy. It was only by some fluke that Tragedy somehow ended up becoming hugely popular in its own right. I think Tragedy must have been very popular at New Year's parties and the likes, hence it managing to sustain its sales well and climb to #1 perfectly after new year (I'm just guessing, of course). In a way they were both equally responsible for its success (even though Tragedy has very much come to overshadow Heartbeat now), so if anything it should definitely be equally credited. In a way it's kind of bizarre how it happened and I think Steps kept trying to repeat the trick on future singles with a ballad/uptempo double-A side but never quite managed it - as, like I said, it was a fluke :lol:

 

I never said anything about which A-Side had more promotion. I said if both are promoted, I credit it as the first one.

 

Besides, my way of crediting songs isn't necessarily meant to be completely accurate, just consistent. I only differ from it when it clearly makes no sense (such as with Goo Goo Dolls 'Stay With Me/Iris')

It makes perfect sense. Stay With You was the main single that was promoted during 2006; Iris was tacked on for some bizarre reason but was originally released way back in 1998 and then again in 1999 as you probably know. I know you keep re-releases together but that is one occasion where you definitely shouldn't :lol: Although of course any re-entries for Iris on downloads should be listed along with the original releases of Iris in 1998/1999 in your situation.

It makes perfect sense. Stay With You was the main single that was promoted during 2006; Iris was tacked on for some bizarre reason but was originally released way back in 1998 and then again in 1999 as you probably know. I know you keep re-releases together but that is one occasion where you definitely shouldn't :lol: Although of course any re-entries for Iris on downloads should be listed along with the original releases of Iris in 1998/1999 in your situation.

 

You know what, you're right actually - I'm not sure where I got that it was primarily an Iris re-release with a random new song tagged onto it and listed as the first A-Side for some reason! I'm sure I saw that somewhere :unsure: I must have just got confused because the single cover on Wikipedia has it listed as 'Iris / Stay With You' for some reason. I should probably correct that... :lol:

Edited July 8, 201113 yr by Bré

This is the chartstats page for SWY/I:

 

http://www.chartstats.com/release.php?release=32526

 

Were all of those chart weeks based on sales of 'Stay With You' and the double A-Side itself or is it after a certain point based off download sales of Iris? There's no indication of this anywhere :lol:

I think it can be assumed that the majority of the downloads are just for Iris, since that seems to be the more popular of the two (staple on the Itunes top 300) so you could credit it as that, although the main single in 2006 I think was Stay With You rather than the re-release of Iris - not sure really :P

I think it can be assumed that the majority of the downloads are just for Iris, since that seems to be the more popular of the two (staple on the Itunes top 300) so you could credit it as that, although the main single in 2006 I think was Stay With You rather than the re-release of Iris - not sure really :P

 

The only real problem is I don't know if Chartstats has the right cutoff point between when Stay With You was selling and when Iris was selling. For now I've relabelled its 2006-8 run as 'Stay With You'.

Now that I think about it's a very odd and unique situation as I'm sure Iris must have been selling some downloads off the re-release but the protocol was for the physical single + download sales of the lead track to chart at the time (this is we know what happened with Leona so presumably this is what they did with all releases). Iris could have charted on its own at the time but didn't. I don't really understand the way Chartstats has labelled this release either but I'd imagine from January 2007 onwards it might have been just Iris on its own? Definitely by August 2007 anyway, as any physical would have been irrelevant to chart matters by then...

Now that I think about it's a very odd and unique situation as I'm sure Iris must have been selling some downloads off the re-release but the protocol was for the physical single + download sales of the lead track to chart at the time (this is we know what happened with Leona so presumably this is what they did with all releases). Iris could have charted on its own at the time but didn't. I don't really understand the way Chartstats has labelled this release either but I'd imagine from January 2007 onwards it might have been just Iris on its own? Definitely by August 2007 anyway, as any physical would have been irrelevant to chart matters by then...

 

Based on the fact that Iris theoretically should have charted on its own if it was doing most of the selling in the later parts of SWY's chart run, I'm just going to lump 2006-8 together as 'Stay With You' anyway. Polyhex also has its last week in 2008 listed as 'Stay With You/Iris'. The OCC must have been combining Iris' sales to the double A-Side for whatever reason anyway... unless Iris did chart outside the top 75/100 at the time?

Based on the fact that Iris theoretically should have charted on its own if it was doing most of the selling in the later parts of SWY's chart run, I'm just going to lump 2006-8 together as 'Stay With You' anyway. Polyhex also has its last week in 2008 listed as 'Stay With You/Iris'. The OCC must have been combining Iris' sales to the double A-Side for whatever reason anyway... unless Iris did chart outside the top 75/100 at the time?

Actually, now that I think about it some more (again :lol:), Iris was probably ineligible to chart on its own in 2006 because you had to have a physical release to chart back then, and if they paired the physical release with Stay With You then Iris was probably treated as a 'download only' release in this case. Then obviously from week-ending 13/01/2007 onwards the rules changed to allow anything to chart. However, all that would tell us is that anything before that date isn't Iris on its own, so it doesn't particularly clear up much confusion :lol:

Actually, now that I think about it some more (again :lol:), Iris was probably ineligible to chart on its own in 2006 because you had to have a physical release to chart back then, and if they paired the physical release with Stay With You then Iris was probably treated as a 'download only' release in this case. Then obviously from week-ending 13/01/2007 onwards the rules changed to allow anything to chart. However, all that would tell us is that anything before that date isn't Iris on its own, so it doesn't particularly clear up much confusion :lol:

 

I had a look at zobbel.de to see if that had any more information. For one, it lists it as 'Iris / Stay With You' which doesn't help in the slightest :lol: But also Iris apparently made #37 on the download chart in 2006. Don't know if that has any significance (it's listed as just 'Iris', not 'Iris / Stay With You' or 'Stay With You / Iris'), probably not since as you say download-only releases couldn't chart in 2006.

 

And in fact, zobbel.de actually still lists it as 'Iris / Stay With You' in 2009 and 2010 :unsure:

 

But anyway, as there doesn't seem to be a way to determine the exact cutoff point between SWY and Iris, I'll just stick to crediting it as 'Stay With You' from 2006-2008 and 'Iris' before and after that. I wonder what will happen if 'Stay With You' recharts for some reason :thinking:

 

By the way, sorry fchd, I've sort of ruined your thread :lol:

Edited July 8, 201113 yr by Bré

Remember though that the 'singles chart' hasn't been a 'singles chart' for a long time - it's now a 'tracks chart' so I see no reason why sales of a B-Side or second A-Side should be combined to the main song, whether it's 1 sale or half a sale. The way the OCC treat double A-Sides now is perfect AFAIC. :P

 

 

I do make exceptions sometimes, but only when the second A-Side was definitely the 'main track' of the double A-Side so to speak. For example I credit Goo Goo Dolls' 'Stay With Me/Iris' as 'Iris'. That song would be another exception.

the singles chart is still exactly that- download singles with multiple tracks still exist (only counting as 1 sale), b-sides do (eventually) get combined and "1tracks" are not a new concept to downloads- there were many physical singles where this was done.

 

Also the way you are talking about a main A side or only counting one is missing the point- you are essentially treating the other as a B side then which isn't really accurate as there is a distinction. Downloads have muddied the waters though which is probably why they've died off.

 

You keep mentioning your rules and how you record them- record them where? The OCC already has rules regarding this and if you are recording them anywhere official or for reference you should use these to maintain consistency, otherwise there will just be confusion.

 

Ps iris is currently listed by itself in the top200 I believe, not being combined to the original double A so perhaps its sales are standalone

Edited July 8, 201113 yr by spicefunk

You keep mentioning your rules and how you record them- record them where? The OCC already has rules regarding this and if you are recording them anywhere official or for reference you should use these to maintain consistency, otherwise there will just be confusion.

 

I have a spreadsheet which I record the charts in. Just for personal reference / something to work on when I'm bored and have nothing better to do :P

 

I don't use the same crediting for everything as the OCC does as the way the OCC does it is extremely inconsistent and is sometimes just plain wrong (for example they credit Just The Way You Are as 'Just The Way You Are (Amazing)' for some bizarre reason).

Edited July 9, 201113 yr by Bré

I have a spreadsheet which I record the charts in. Just for personal reference / something to work on when I'm bored and have nothing better to do :P

 

I don't use the same crediting for everything as the OCC does as the way the OCC does it is extremely inconsistent and is sometimes just plain wrong (for example they credit Just The Way You Are as 'Just The Way You Are (Amazing)' for some bizarre reason).

My understanding is record companies register how they want a song to be listed, and select a main version

I never said anything about which A-Side had more promotion. I said if both are promoted, I credit it as the first one.

 

Besides, my way of crediting songs isn't necessarily meant to be completely accurate, just consistent. I only differ from it when it clearly makes no sense (such as with Goo Goo Dolls 'Stay With Me/Iris')

But it's arguable that it doesn't make any sense to ignore Tragedy, the song definitely would not have made #1 if it were not for Tragedy - if you were to ask any casual music fan which song was Steps' biggest hit or #1, they would say Tragedy and most definitely not Heartbeat as Tragedy was literally inescapable...

 

Oh and Candle In The Wind and Candle In The Wind 97 really should be treated as different songs also...