It wasn't false. The information was coming directly from the label, and is accurate. Classic Christmas sold 100,000 to retailers within a day, and for Universal that is what they care about. Classic sold less than WA and that sold more than double now and continues to sell. :) You need to get your facts straight, and it is TRUE that it sold more than Classic.

 

He is doing great so far. It is selling as much as Classic, and certified Gold within a day which exceed their expectation, while Classic continues to sell. Even if it only sold 100,000 so far, is still a success for him. And with plans of another album and tour next year already, Joe is very successful. Wonderful news for him. He is such a great young man! :)

Correction. He has SHIPPED 100k. He has SOLD 34k. No question about it. A gold certification just means retailers have received at least 100k copies to sell. Not that I really enjoy Joe or anything, but it makes me laugh how you try to boost his successes up. :P

Correction. He has SHIPPED 100k. He has SOLD 34k. No question about it. A gold certification just means retailers have received at least 100k copies to sell. Not that I really enjoy Joe or anything, but it makes me laugh how you try to boost his successes up. :P

 

Absolutely right: the figures are in the Charts Forum/Sales thread and not even Jonmove can alter them! He is right that Universal shipped 100,000 out (hence the gold album claim) but this works against Joe as it proves that (unlike with Classic) there is no shortage of the album in the shops. Joe is now at No 27 in the midweeks and has reverted to the same form he showed with his 1st album which fell from 3 to 20 in its 1st two weeks. He is on target for around 15,000 sales this week: again, we've seen it all before (sales of the 1st album went from 39,400 to 12,400 in its first two weeks, the single from it - Ambitions - had the same pattern). In both chart and sales terms this is Joe's worst album and given it's a Christmas album being sold in the run up to Christmas, the implications are obvious.

Correction. He has SHIPPED 100k. He has SOLD 34k. No question about it. A gold certification just means retailers have received at least 100k copies to sell. Not that I really enjoy Joe or anything, but it makes me laugh how you try to boost his successes up. :P

 

Correction. It is sales to retailers, which is to a record label is the only thing that counts. Sales made by the record label is 100K. Sales made by retailers are 34K.

 

According to the official website: Certification is based on (as quoted from the BPI website):

 

BPI member companies are given certified awards to mark sales to UK retailers.

 

http://www.bpi.co.uk/certifiedawards/search.aspx'

 

No one is trying to boost his success as the facts are right there. :P Again, if Universal only sold this 100k, he has been successful. But Joe has already been successful and doing so brilliantly. This is Joe's 3rd album and showed what a success he really is as this album turned Gold within a day. Another album next year and another tour already planned in 2012. :)

 

Great job to a wonderful young man! :)

Edited December 6, 201113 yr by jonmove

Yes true but he has sold only 34k on the charts.

 

What the statement from BPI is true but that long phrase actually means Shipments.

 

An example would be if some company shipped 500,000 albums but in return it sold only 150,000. That's not called impressive because if going by certifications if any company wanted their artist to be highly certified then all they need to do is ship a bunch load of CDs to retailers.

 

Success can be determined by what consumers buy from retailers and not what retailers get from record labels.

Yes true but he has sold only 34k on the charts.

 

What the statement from BPI is true but that long phrase actually means Shipments.

 

An example would be if some company shipped 500,000 albums but in return it sold only 150,000. That's not called impressive because if going by certifications if any company wanted their artist to be highly certified then all they need to do is ship a bunch load of CDs to retailers.

 

Success can be determined by what consumers buy from retailers and not what retailers get from record labels.

 

You must be right: (1) chart positions are determined by consumer sales, not retailer sales and (2) if a retailer buys too many albums and cannot sell them, it will get its fingers burned and be less likely to order albums from that artist again (assuming they are not bought on a sale or return basis like newspapers - if they were, of course, the label would have to buy all the unsold ones back). This has now happened to Joe: no doubt the label and the retailers thought he would repeat the success of Classic so 100,000 Classic Christmas albums were shipped out.

 

In fact, the album is the worst performing of all, both in chart and sales terms. HMV and the rest are now set to have 50,000 unsold by next week and sales are likely to drop sharply from then on, as did those of Joe's first album. Also, unlike Joe's first two albums, this one will likely have no sales at all after 4 weeks. Joe's single from the album will likely bomb too. Next time round, will the retailers be buying 100,000 of Joe's 4th album - or any at all?

 

Well we can't be sure of that, it will get drip drop sales throughout the year. Besides, its getting decent sales despite its peak.

Also, I hardly see how it matters. Christmas albums, especially ones based on a spinoff of an already successful album, are generally little more than a cash-in by the studio. Of course this was going to be Joe's worst performing album. I expect it'll reach at least half of that 100k total, if not more, by the end of the Christmas period anyway.

 

Since it is a spinoff, I see no reason why retailers would lose confidence in Joe's selling ability. If he releases another album in the vein of Classic, it'll probably be another success. Some people have enough Christmas albums in their lives, and I expect it didn't look interesting to a number of Classic buyers who would still buy his next album.

im glad hes doing well. it seems syco help the runners up more that the actual winner :(

Also, I hardly see how it matters. Christmas albums, especially ones based on a spinoff of an already successful album, are generally little more than a cash-in by the studio. Of course this was going to be Joe's worst performing album. I expect it'll reach at least half of that 100k total, if not more, by the end of the Christmas period anyway.

 

Since it is a spinoff, I see no reason why retailers would lose confidence in Joe's selling ability. If he releases another album in the vein of Classic, it'll probably be another success. Some people have enough Christmas albums in their lives, and I expect it didn't look interesting to a number of Classic buyers who would still buy his next album.

 

Really good post. Christmas albums are not everyone's thing (not mine normally) and I've noticed that in a couple of supermarkets Ive been in and on Play.com for example Classic is actually outselling Classic Christmas and in higher position in their respective charts. 34k last week and #26 today in the midweeks for CC. That position last week for example sold about 20k which would have got you Top 5 back in August. He could climb too once he gets some tv appearances. Sales are so much higher now and if the album can sell consistently up until the big day it could go gold in shipments and sales. But I agree its certainly not an indicator as to how Joes career is going. Classic has only been out 4 months and must be at least 215k+ by now. Its still a relatively new album and CC has just been released alongside as a cash in like you say and if they shift a few more copies of original Classic while promoting it job done :)

 

Samples just been released of 7th Heaven remix of Last Christmas if anyone is interested. I'm quite liking it. No surprise there :) http://www.amazon.co.uk/Last-Christmas/dp/.../ref=dm_ap_alb8

Edited December 7, 201113 yr by torresgirl

Really good post. Christmas albums are not everyone's thing (not mine normally) and I've noticed that in a couple of supermarkets Ive been in and on Play.com for example Classic is actually outselling Classic Christmas and in higher position in their respective charts. 34k last week and #26 today in the midweeks for CC. That position last week for example sold about 20k which would have got you Top 5 back in August. He could climb too once he gets some tv appearances. Sales are so much higher now and if the album can sell consistently up until the big day it could go gold in shipments and sales. But I agree its certainly not an indicator as to how Joes career is going. Classic has only been out 4 months and must be at least 215k+ by now. Its still a relatively new album and CC has just been released alongside as a cash in like you say and if they shift a few more copies of original Classic while promoting it job done :)

 

Samples just been released of 7th Heaven remix of Last Christmas if anyone is interested. I'm quite liking it. No surprise there :) [edit]

 

The trouble is that Joe is following a very consistent path here (for him that is): Classic was at No 71 in the charts last week and will most likely drop at least 10 places this week. Classic Christmas is following the same trajectory. Last Christmas seems doomed to fail when it comes out. You have only to compare Classic with Will Young's Echoes (released the same day) to see the difference between Joe and other artists: Echoes is still in the top 30 after 15 weeks and has stayed there every week except (I believe) one. Classic started off well then steadily dropped as per normal with Joe. Your point about there being higher sales at Christmas is a good one but is offset by the fact that this is a Christmas album: if Joe can't sell such an album now, what can he sell? It seems the bubble has burst for him, regardless of what type of album he does next.

 

Having said that, a classical chart person made the point that maybe all this is irrelevant as you can make money in the classical charts with far fewer sales (as apparently the cost of making the albums is so much lower) so Joe could still earn a successful living even if he was not selling anything like as many albums as he used to. He is rumoured to be joining a West End musical (Jersey Boys) soon: whether true or not, presumably that sort of thing would be a viable option for him and maybe all comparisons with the likes of Olly Murs are by the by now. Instead we should be thinking Alfie Boe perhaps?

The trouble is that Joe is following a very consistent path here (for him that is): Classic was at No 71 in the charts last week and will most likely drop at least 10 places this week. Classic Christmas is following the same trajectory. Last Christmas seems doomed to fail when it comes out. You have only to compare Classic with Will Young's Echoes (released the same day) to see the difference between Joe and other artists: Echoes is still in the top 30 after 15 weeks and has stayed there every week except (I believe) one. Classic started off well then steadily dropped as per normal with Joe. Your point about there being higher sales at Christmas is a good one but is offset by the fact that this is a Christmas album: if Joe can't sell such an album now, what can he sell? It seems the bubble has burst for him, regardless of what type of album he does next.

 

Having said that, a classical chart person made the point that maybe all this is irrelevant as you can make money in the classical charts with far fewer sales (as apparently the cost of making the albums is so much lower) so Joe could still earn a successful living even if he was not selling anything like as many albums as he used to. He is rumoured to be joining a West End musical (Jersey Boys) soon: whether true or not, presumably that sort of thing would be a viable option for him and maybe all comparisons with the likes of Olly Murs are by the by now. Instead we should be thinking Alfie Boe perhaps?

 

Er thats ridiculous to be honest. Most albums do exactly the same. Plenty of albums released after Joe and the same week are at lower positions than him and other artists round the same time have sold less (Wretch32, David Guetta, Example to name but 3) Cher Lloyd 1 week in the top 10, The Wanted the same, far too many others to mention. Joe 5 weeks top 5 and 6 in the top 10. Have their bubbles burst too? Will Youngs album has sold more than Joes but what you gonna do, its a good album and Will is an established artist and deserves it. Maybe you should be worrying about Katherine Jenkins whose latest album has sold less than 50k compared to over 200k for Joe.

 

We all know you want Joe to flop but he's a survivor and will be just fine :) Maybe you should try talking about something else. You could place the criteria you have listed above to so many artists in the charts right now. This isn't twitter and we all know your agenda. Also ppl on Buzzjack know their stuff and just won't fall for your anti Joe propaganda.

Edited December 7, 201113 yr by torresgirl

Er thats ridiculous to be honest. Most albums do exactly the same. Plenty of albums released after Joe and the same week are at lower positions than him and other artists round the same time have sold less (Wretch32, David Guetta, Example to name but 3) Cher Lloyd 1 week in the top 10, The Wanted the same, far too many others to mention. Joe 5 weeks top 5 and 6 in the top 10. Have their bubbles burst too? Will Youngs album has sold more than Joes but what you gonna do, its a good album and Will is an established artist and deserves it. Maybe you should be worrying about Katherine Jenkins whose latest album has sold less than 50k compared to over 200k for Joe.

 

We all know you want Joe to flop but he's a survivor and will be just fine :) Maybe you should try talking about something else. You could place the criteria you have listed above to so many artists in the charts right now. This isn't twitter and we all know your agenda. Also ppl on Buzzjack know their stuff and just won't fall for your anti Joe propaganda.

 

Well:

(1) You "know" nothing as that isn't what I want at all - my issue with Joe has nothing to do with whether he flops or succeeds;

(2) My assessment of Joe's position is based on a detailed comparison of his whole career chart and sales record with his current performance - if you want to bring in other artists you would have to give us a similarly detailed analysis to make your point;

(3) If you did read my Twitter page as you claim, you would know I do talk quite a lot about Katherine Jenkins (though as a person rather than in chart terms) but errrm: this is a Joe McElderry thread not a Katherine Jenkins thread! and

(4) You say Will Young is an established artist: I wouldn't dispute that, but there is a whole issue about people like Joe getting to the top by means of a quick fix reality TV show versus people like Adele or Justin Bieber who build a career the slow and hard way in order to establish themselves. Whether the TV route to the top can work others will judge but I'm sure if anyone can get there it's the likes of Will and Olly rather than Joe but

(5) Having said that, I'm not disputing Joe could earn a living doing what I am told are cheap (cheap to produce I mean) classical compilation albums: that's not an area of music I much like or care about but I guess people like Alfie Boe show you can be a real success doing that - if you like that sort of stuff, why not?

Edited December 8, 201113 yr by joecomments

:lol:

Well:

(1) You "know" nothing as that isn't what I want at all - my issue with Joe has nothing to do with whether he flops or succeeds;

(2) My assessment of Joe's position is based on a detailed comparison of his whole career chart and sales record with his current performance - if you want to bring in other artists you would have to give us a similarly detailed analysis to make your point;

(3) If you did read my Twitter page as you claim, you would know I do talk quite a lot about Katherine Jenkins (though as a person rather than in chart terms) but errrm: this is a Joe McElderry thread not a Katherine Jenkins thread! and

(4) You say Will Young is an established artist: I wouldn't dispute that, but there is a whole issue about people like Joe getting to the top by means of a quick fix reality TV show versus people like Adele or Justin Bieber who build a career the slow and hard way in order to establish themselves. Whether the TV route to the top can work others will judge but I'm sure if anyone can get there it's the likes of Will and Olly rather than Joe but

(5) Having said that, I'm not disputing Joe could earn a living doing what I am told are cheap (cheap to produce I mean) classical compilation albums: that's not an area of music I much like or care about but I guess people like Alfie Boe show you can be a real success doing that - if you like that sort of stuff, why not?

 

:lol: Were you too angry to read my post properly? Obviously.

:lol:

 

:lol: Were you too angry to read my post properly? Obviously.

 

Nope: (1) I always do people the honour of reading carefully what they write, even if I disagree with it and

 

(2) to get back on topic, I'm not angry at all, in fact rather amused at the moment because I've just seen on Twitter that a Joe McElderry TV ad has aired. How do I know? Because Twitter is full of comments on it: AND ALMOST EVERY SINGLE ONE IS BAD (just search 'Joe McElderry' and you can see for yourself).

 

It's not the comments themselves I find amusing, it's just that I think Universal Music have come up with a new form of advertising for Joe McElderry: the more they pay to air ads for his albums, the more people hate him and his music. The economic implications are interesting: maybe they only signed him on so they could claim him as a loss for tax purposes (see that great Mel Brooks film 'The Producers'). :lol:

Edited December 8, 201113 yr by joecomments

Ah great clip from tonights news about the event Joe was asked to perform in by Sir Tim Rice http://www.itv.com/tynetees/fullprogramme/.

 

Joe looks so handsome :wub: Just scroll to 25 mins in.

Edited December 8, 201113 yr by torresgirl

Also ppl on Buzzjack know their stuff and just won't fall for your anti Joe propaganda.

This, basically.

 

I tend to have little respect for people with one tracked opinions on artists.

But Jester..... torresgirl is very one track minded when it comes to Joe too :unsure:

But Jester..... torresgirl is very one track minded when it comes to Joe too :unsure:

 

Mornng yes i do love Joe (a lot) but there's plenty of people on Buzzjack who openly have favourite artists and this is a thread about Joe. Difference here is that I like a lot of other things too and contribute to many other threads/discussions. I don't come on here deliberately to make a one artist look bad, when the facts say he's actually doing quite well for himself. Of course people can disagree that's the whole point of a discussion but we all know that Joecomments is not doing that. The poster I am talking about didn't answer any of the very valid points I made in answer to his post about Joe's chart record for Classic, he just made very negative ones for the sake of it.

 

I certainly won't be answering any of his posts directly anymore just pointless tbh.

Edited December 9, 201113 yr by torresgirl

There are 45 new Christmas releases this year and with that some much bigger stars like Buble and Bieber released Christmas albums, so when you take all that into consideration, I'd say Joe is doing just fine.

But Jester..... torresgirl is very one track minded when it comes to Joe too :unsure:

She is but she also comments on other artists - the other poster soley comments in a negative manner on Joe only - there is a difference imo.