I do not think streaming's inclusion should be dependent on the level of sales. Streaming can be relevant even when sales are high, and streaming is increasingly relevant in the UK. I am not hugely concerned about how this inclusion will make the chart look but more about how this change in the face of the chart will impact other things. For one thing, will sales figures be released as often as they currently are? The amount of sales info we get is something we would all miss.

 

I have to wonder how radio will react to this change. Streaming charts already exist but songs with high streaming will be a lot more visible now and I imagine radio will pick up on that. Could lead to some songs that wouldn't get airplay without streaming in the chart getting the exposure they deserve.

I hope they only include paid streaming. I don't think it'll be fair to allow free streaming services to be a part of the chart. Hopefully we'll still get the same amount of sales data from the sales reports.

When people say 'the singles chart has always been about sales' surely what they mean is it reflects the music that people most spend their money on? If people are now spending money on streaming music rather than downloading it or buying it physically, then why on earth should it not be included?

 

I've always thought it would be fairer (though it wouldn't really have as much of an effect on singles, more albums) to base the chart on revenue earned rather than sales made. It would be easier to include streaming this way as it would be easier to work out a value per play.

Of course what they could do is say that once a song has been played through someone streaming it, that counts as one sale towards that song but it only counts once, that way it's similar enough to the system in place and the charts wouldn't seem as stagnant, of course songs would still get first-time streams every week, as new people will be listening to it each week.

When people say 'the singles chart has always been about sales' surely what they mean is it reflects the music that people most spend their money on? If people are now spending money on streaming music rather than downloading it or buying it physically, then why on earth should it not be included?

 

It was the OCC themselves that said it's a sales chart (and not a chart about what people spend money on). It was back in 2012 or 2013 they said they wouldn't include streaming since it's not sales. If it was a chart about what people spend money on, streaming would have been included years ago, and other things like concert ticket sales would also have to be included.

I not convinced that including streaming in the main chart is a good idea at all tbh. For a start there is (at least currently) no need. Contrary to what some have said it isn't the same scenario as when they started counting downloads, for the simple reason that in that instance sales were dropping off so rapidly that very soon they would have had to compile a top 4 rather than 40 due to a lack of physical releases. In this instance though sales are not only healthy, I think I'm right in saying that 2012 and 2013 have been record breaking, selling more units than previous record high years such as 1978 and 1984, so I can't see that the charts need a change. Also a stream just isn't a purchase the way that a download is one, so they aren't comparable, and any attempt to make them so will probably involve complex chart rules which change most years with the changing ratios of the download and streaming markets. I just don't think that a Sales chart that has existed at least since 1969 (and right back to 1952 in a slightly different format but still attempting to reflect sales only) needs to suddenly change to some sort of vague hybrid chart.

 

My final thought on the matter... Back in the 60s to 80s or so there was a service offered by BT, called something like 'Dial a disc', whereby you dialled a premium number and listened to the chart record of you choice in glorious British Telecom mono. Now I think the service charged a reasonable amount per minute, and I believe at times it was a relatively popular service, but I would be astonished if anyone in those had ever considered adding the call data for the service to any singles chart, because no one would ever have considered a listen on 'dial a disc' to be in any way the same thing as a purchase, even though the 'dial a disc' listeners were still paying money for their listen (via their unsuspecting parents phone bill most likely). I don't see how streaming is in any way different really and I would prefer them to keep a sales only chart as the main chart, though by all means create a new streaming chart that gets some coverage too, just not in the main chart please.

If the OCC really want a chart that perfectly measures popularity, they also need to be including airplay in clubs, bars, restaurants, shops, and also mentions of a song on Twitter, posts about a song on Facebook, etc, and even mentions of song in daily converstation. There is some level of correlation between sales and popularity, but it's only telling a tiny part of the overall story.

 

Isn't the Dance Floor Upfront chart in MW not the chart that reflects this? It's current no1 is Duke Dumont I think?

 

Is it not the case that when you sign up to spotify you just can go in and it's like listening to a radio where you don't necessarily chose the song?

When people say 'the singles chart has always been about sales' surely what they mean is it reflects the music that people most spend their money on? If people are now spending money on streaming music rather than downloading it or buying it physically, then why on earth should it not be included?

 

I've always thought it would be fairer (though it wouldn't really have as much of an effect on singles, more albums) to base the chart on revenue earned rather than sales made. It would be easier to include streaming this way as it would be easier to work out a value per play.

 

 

Exactly it's a chart of the most popular singles which so happens to be produced by the sales of those singles

I think I know the reason they want to add streaming. It's to stop the top 40 looking like iTunes charts. The record industry has let iTunes take the biggest share of the chart, other download sites are ignored. You only have to look at a current Play.com top 100 to see that it's having little effect on the OCC chart, to prove this.

I'm pretty certain that the BBC are not at all happy playing what is the iTunes top 40 for the week. In the past the record store chart was a mix of shops, none of which produced sales lists that were up to date, or showed with any certainty what might be number one come Sunday. That's not the case now. You can easily predict what will be top ten, just by following the iTunes chart. By opening it up to streaming it changes the look of the chart. Looking at the iTunes chart after the event of a streaming chart to find out what is going to be in the chart Sunday, will be pointless.

 

One thing is for certain iTunes will not be happy about the combined streaming chart.

 

The Christmas number one might well be Mariah Carey if this goes ahead.

Sounds about right in terms of the biggest hits of the year and it stops the random one week no1s.

 

Or from that list, even 3 week #1's like Ellie's 'Burn'... :(

 

One of the songs in the top 10 at the moment, the DJ Fresh song isn't available on spotify etc. So how wuold streaming sales being counted affect that's placing on the chart I wonder

 

It'd chart lower.

 

Hopefully if the charts started including streaming then Ministry of Sound would see sense and put their songs on spotify, as I think the reason why they don't at the moment is to get their songs and compilations high in the charts.

 

Any record compamy that resists streaming for the above reasons, would have their arguments totally demolished.

 

I have to wonder how radio will react to this change. Streaming charts already exist but songs with high streaming will be a lot more visible now and I imagine radio will pick up on that. Could lead to some songs that wouldn't get airplay without streaming in the chart getting the exposure they deserve.

 

Or vice versa...

 

 

One thing is for certain iTunes will not be happy about the combined streaming chart.

 

The Christmas number one might well be Mariah Carey if this goes ahead.

 

Or the Pogues - I think I could live with that... :P

 

http://www.theguardian.com/media/2014/feb/...g-plays-spotify

 

The charts are essentially a measure of commercial success. The mechanism used to give an appropriate weighting to streaming is the key issue here.

 

I have no figures, but my guess is that streaming still only contributes a very modest amount to the revenue received by rights holders.

 

If, say, streaming contributes 3% to the revenue flow then 3% is the weighting it should get in the charts.

I think I know the reason they want to add streaming. It's to stop the top 40 looking like iTunes charts. The record industry has let iTunes take the biggest share of the chart, other download sites are ignored. You only have to look at a current Play.com top 100 to see that it's having little effect on the OCC chart, to prove this.

I'm pretty certain that the BBC are not at all happy playing what is the iTunes top 40 for the week. In the past the record store chart was a mix of shops, none of which produced sales lists that were up to date, or showed with any certainty what might be number one come Sunday. That's not the case now. You can easily predict what will be top ten, just by following the iTunes chart. By opening it up to streaming it changes the look of the chart. Looking at the iTunes chart after the event of a streaming chart to find out what is going to be in the chart Sunday, will be pointless.

 

One thing is for certain iTunes will not be happy about the combined streaming chart.

 

The Christmas number one might well be Mariah Carey if this goes ahead.

 

 

I don't think that's the reason, Apple. co couldn't care less about it's effect on the UK chart as long as the iTunes store keep selling singles in good quantities .... And I'm sure they will set up their own streaming service very soon anyway...

 

Im in agreement with this move and read the David Joseph article in MW last week - it was a great insight into the arguement within the industry - which i alluded too in a post in the sales thread. David Joseph CEO of Universal is all for streaming to make the charts more relevant to 2014 and he is also for on air releases which most of the other labels oppose.

 

I agree but id like to see the detail about it because why for instance do new songs quickly climb the streaming chart a week after the buyers chart? Surely songs are available to stream sooner?

 

He made some good points about on air on sale releases, which I am 100% in favour of. I'm continually p*ssed off that the Uk are made to wait months, up to a year, before they can buy tracks anyway available in the rest of the world, and annoyed by the artificially high chart positions of records getting 6 to 8 weeks of airplay demand pent up for week one maximisation. You end up with million-sellers not getting to number one, which is just ridiculous and makes a mockery of the chart when here-today gone-tomorrow forgotten-the-day-after tracks get the kudos of a number one.

 

That said, streaming is no different from radio listening (we do after all PAY a licence fee for the privilege of listening to music) or pub jukeboxes (actual paid-for cash parted with for specific tracks, far more than streaming compared with cost per track) so logically that data should also be incorporated and weighted accordingly. I don't see why Spotify & co deserve special status when consumers pay for music in all sorts of other ways. All or nothing, sales or multimedia. Virgin or not a virgin, no inbetween status just to keep a couple of privately-owned companies happy (by making them bigger more-powerful players).

 

PS, the charts are hardly in crisis, sales-wise, despite a dip, historically they are as high as they have ever been (single-track - which is the one they were discussing in Music Week)

Edited February 19, 201411 yr by popchartfreak

Not really sure how I feel about this one, I can see it's a good move to implement now as I do think streaming will become the primary source for music listening in the future but I've always liked the fact our charts have always been purely based on sales

 

 

http://www.theguardian.com/media/2014/feb/...g-plays-spotify

 

The charts are essentially a measure of commercial success. The mechanism used to give an appropriate weighting to streaming is the key issue here.

 

I have no figures, but my guess is that streaming still only contributes a very modest amount to the revenue received by rights holders.

 

If, say, streaming contributes 3% to the revenue flow then 3% is the weighting it should get in the charts.

 

But even that raises problems - what if the download/streaming revenue proportion is significantly different between recent releases, and oldies. That would add too much/too little chart weighting to streaming, depending which way round the proportions were.

Does anyone know what rules the occ have in place for their current streaming chart

The fact it was the BBC that said this is a lot to do with the argument that they don't like an iTunes top 40.

The BBC has this funny balancing act between not seen as backing commercial companies and popular taste. They don't like the fact that the top 40 looks too much like the iTunes chart, that's what I think. Till someone can produce a statement from a BBC person saying that it's not a reason, it has to be considered the main reason for this change.

 

Do the streaming sites allow explicit recordings to be listened to by younger persons? If they don't that will change the chart for the worse. Since they can't stop someone buying a record that's explicit. Didn't the BBC not play Dapper Laughs on the same grounds over the weekend. Streaming chart position for that record? "Zero" is my guess!

Interesting to see The Vamps and Neon Jungle just peaked in the top 30 on streaming with their recent top 5 singles. I guess that would have put them down lower in the top 10 with streaming included. If they're only selling to a core fanbase rather than genuine widespread popularity it's not necessarily a bad thing.

Interesting to see The Vamps and Neon Jungle just peaked in the top 30 on streaming with their recent top 5 singles. I guess that would have put them down lower in the top 10 with streaming included. If they're only selling to a core fanbase rather than genuine widespread popularity it's not necessarily a bad thing.

 

The chart run of "Braveheart" seems to suggest that it's not just a fanbase purchase.

I'm just concerned if this will make the chart move slower. You buy a track one week, you aren't counted again the next week. But you then listen to that track for weeks/months. I'd have to see how they decide to measure it.

 

If Mariah gets Christmas number One will that be 20 years after release by the way? Would that be some sort of record?