July 17, 201411 yr Around 80 people were children from what I've heard. Just awful. There are going to be some massive repercussions from this. I wonder if NATO might finally do something useful. All depends on where the missile comes from originally. Can't imagine the separatists got the missile by themselves if they were the perpetrators.
July 17, 201411 yr I fully believe the Russians were the party who supplied the separatists the missiles in the first place. Obviously with them having the black box and Putin denying everything (and now the pro-Russian separatists themselves are denying it despite video footage of their leader and militants saying otherwise), it won't be clear just yet but hopefully justice is served for those who perished in this tragedy event.
July 18, 201411 yr Russia has a lot of explaining to do pretty much to the rest of the world. Of course they can always point to trigger-happy American troops who did it themselves in the 90's with no third-party support, as some sort of feeble excuse. I would like to see a boycott of Russian products, and yes all those NIMBY's whingeing about the UK trying to get energy self-sufficient (yes you lot of selfish well-off whiners blocking every attempt) that means imported gas too. End of the day the best method of showing disfavour is to hit the money-belt.
July 18, 201411 yr Black box went to Moscow? Oh well, I guess chances are we find out where the previous Malaysian airlines plane is before we get the *truth* about this attack. Or if it even ever happens. I mean who would want to take responsibility of bombing a plane full of citizens who have no connection to Ukraine whatsoever despite the plane apparently crossing their airspace illegally or some shit. Is it like open fire!!!1 at anything that is on Ukraine's radar?! shoot and ask questions later... or in this case shoot and Putin will deny everything later.
July 18, 201411 yr Don't they have more than one? I read the rebels only found/sent one black box to Moscow.
July 18, 201411 yr Yes there's 2, but they record different things One records height, speed etc and the other one records conversations in the cockpit. Putin apparantly called Premier Rutte saying he wanted an impartial investigation of the black boxes. Here's hoping the Russians won't investigate it then :lol:
July 18, 201411 yr Black box went to Moscow? Oh well, I guess chances are we find out where the previous Malaysian airlines plane is before we get the *truth* about this attack. Or if it even ever happens. I mean who would want to take responsibility of bombing a plane full of citizens who have no connection to Ukraine whatsoever despite the plane apparently crossing their airspace illegally or some shit. Is it like open fire!!!1 at anything that is on Ukraine's radar?! shoot and ask questions later... or in this case shoot and Putin will deny everything later. The airliner was travelling in legal and open airspace. There should never be any reason to shoot down a passenger jet regardless of what airspace it's flying through. This is disgusting news. You've got to wonder if this terror attack (can't call it anything else it was clearly not an accident as airliners don't just spontaneously explode mid air) will trigger the EU's defence clauses. Now confirmed that 173 of the dead are Dutch nationals and now 9 Brits. This is horrific and I hope the perpetrators are fully punished to the full extent of international law and that includes the head of the terrorist regime in east Ukraine and the crackpot in charge of the Russian federation. RIP all those innocent lives tragically and senselessly lost. Imagine there will be silences at the Commonwealth games for the loss of both commonwealth and non-commonwealth lives.
July 18, 201411 yr One funny thing that surfaced on Russian media today. A couple of weeks ago separatists posted a picture of a machine that can shoot missiles (called "Buk") with description of something like "This is the machine that will be protecting the air space over Donetsk republic". Yesterday that was deleted and a statement denying what used to be there was posted instead. Nice cover up :/ Logically I don't think that Ukraine is at fault here really. They have nothing to gain from it, not really. Pro-Russians are however FAR too angry and trigger happy, I'd not be surprised in the slightest if one of the separatists' "commanders" ordered the hit.
July 18, 201411 yr The Ukranians shooting down a passenger jet would end instantly all the western support from them and isolate them. Given that the rebels have no aircraft there is no logic to support the argument that Ukraine are to blame. It just doesn't make sense.
July 18, 201411 yr Author Around 80 people were children from what I've heard. About 100 kids they say. Seems a bit of a high perrcentage to me, one in 3 being kids. :(
July 18, 201411 yr About 100 kids they say. Seems a bit of a high perrcentage to me, one in 3 being kids. :( Well it's holiday time so people will be heading out with multiple kids on their holidays. Current standings 20 unidentified 173 Dutch 44 Malaysians 27 Australians 12 Indonesians 9 Brits 4 Germans 4 Belgians 3 Filipino's 1 New Zealander 1 Canadian One of the Dutch deaths is someone from our senate and there's quite a few HIV researchers in there too
July 18, 201411 yr 190 EU nationals is the largest loss of European life due to terrorism since Madrid.
July 18, 201411 yr Just awful. An 'accident' it may be, but it's just a little bit inept to mistake a commercial airline for a terror attack, if that's the full excuse, then it's a feeble one. Now I feel just a bit uneasy that my flight in two weeks is operated by an airline partly operated by Malaysian Airlines :/ Edited July 18, 201411 yr by Chez Wombat
July 18, 201411 yr Just awful. An 'accident' it may be, but it's just a little bit inept to mistake a commercial airline for a terror attack, if that's the full excuse, then it's a feeble one. Now I feel just a bit uneasy that my flight in two weeks is operated by an airline partly operated by Malaysian Airlines :/ Just make sure you don't fly over Ukraine at that time :(
July 18, 201411 yr Not an accident to me. That isn't an excuse for anything, I'm afraid. Oh I accidentally stabbed someone I thought they were my mortal enemy, Oh I accidentally invaded the country and stirred things up and handed out weapons to unsupervised extremists. A motive for causing mass deaths is irrelevant to me, it's the act that is culpable, and anyone assisting in it. That goes for most conflicts bar the most extreme Hitler-ish threats. Anyone, after all, can justify anything after the event with feeble "I had a right, it was just fate, I was misinformed" bull.
July 18, 201411 yr Well it's holiday time so people will be heading out with multiple kids on their holidays. Current standings 4 unidentified 189 Dutch 44 Malaysians 27 Australians 12 Indonesians 9 Brits 4 Germans 4 Belgians 3 Filipino's 1 New Zealander 1 Canadian One of the Dutch deaths is someone from our senate and there's quite a few HIV researchers in there too Update: 16 bodies have been identified, all Dutch... :cry: Edited July 18, 201411 yr by *Tim
July 18, 201411 yr Just horrendous to think of all those lives lost and all the potential that those children and young people had with regard to future achievements, careers, relationships, familes etc. And to imagine the level of grief among the partners, children, parents, siblings and friends of the victims, some of whom will undoubtedly suffer from depression for years to come... So many devastating repercussions of one mindless act. Re: the airspace - Having watched various news reports, it seems the plane was technically flying above the restricted airspace or the airspace thought to be dangerous. However, many other airlines have been prudently avoiding flying over the region at all, incurring the extra costs involved. Also, I don't think it's been mentioned here but yesterday I saw a press conference in which a Ukrainian Minister actually named the Russian separatists responsible for the act, based on Ukraine's intelligence agency intercepting their phone calls. Let's hope justice is served effectively for all of the victims.
July 18, 201411 yr Russia has a lot of explaining to do pretty much to the rest of the world. Of course they can always point to trigger-happy American troops who did it themselves in the 90's with no third-party support, as some sort of feeble excuse. I would like to see a boycott of Russian products, and yes all those NIMBY's whingeing about the UK trying to get energy self-sufficient (yes you lot of selfish well-off whiners blocking every attempt) that means imported gas too. End of the day the best method of showing disfavour is to hit the money-belt. Events over the last 24 hours in Ukraine and the Middle East are a perfect example of why we need to be more self-sufficient in energy. That is one of the reasons why I support the Navitus Bay wind farm project here in Dorset.
July 18, 201411 yr Just horrendous to think of all those lives lost and all the potential that those children and young people had with regard to future achievements, careers, relationships, familes etc. And to imagine the level of grief among the partners, children, parents, siblings and friends of the victims, some of whom will undoubtedly suffer from depression for years to come... So many devastating repercussions of one mindless act. Re: the airspace - Having watched various news reports, it seems the plane was technically flying above the restricted airspace or the airspace thought to be dangerous. However, many other airlines have been prudently avoiding flying over the region at all, incurring the extra costs involved. Also, I don't think it's been mentioned here but yesterday I saw a press conference in which a Ukrainian Minister actually named the Russian separatists responsible for the act, based on Ukraine's intelligence agency intercepting their phone calls. Let's hope justice is served effectively for all of the victims. Malaysian Airlines was losing profit even prior to the missing flight having disappeared off heck knows where. Up until now, the company was trying to redeem back its reputation and the financial loss over the previous 'accident' 5 months ago so it semi-makes sense that Malaysian Airlines had no choice but to stick with its original daily route which flies through Ukraine before going onto Russian territory and travel from then onwards to its destination (especially when it's daily and no incident has occurred for them up until this disaster). Also, the restricted airspace was up until 32,000 feet apparently and the aircraft was at a height of 33,000 so technically speaking it wasn't travelling at a restricted zone at all.
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