Tories are hard right, as are UKIP, and Brexit is not in the LEAST bit pramatic and is based on Enid Blyton's fantasy Britain and the idea Empire remains

 

The fantasy here is yours!

 

Thatcherism was hard-right - the current gov't is nothing like that bad.

 

UKIP only had one policy, and Brexit had too wide an appeal to be defined as hard-right.

It's no longer overt, but how can we really know if it's gone?

The fact that since the forerunner to the EU was set up Europe has gone the longest time in 2,000+ years without being at war with itself. Countries co-operate in the interest of the continent all while building their own economies. It’s been a highly successful model that’s brought I’d say 40% of the current members up to being fully fledged functional democracies without a shot being fired. Pretty f***ing remarkable given the UK and US attempts to make countries democracies usually end up with tens of thousands of innocents dead, utter failure and fueling the rise of Islamic extremism

OK, maybe my position on Brexit has a touch of idealism in it, but surely no more than the Remainer one. You put your trust in a body constantly trying to reconcile the interests of nearly 30 countries, many of whom have a long history of enmity to each other.

 

The pragmatism I referred to is mainly iro British internal politics. I believe that politics is more effective when it appeals to the centre ground, but as I see it, Corbyn's Labour is further to the Left, than May's Tories are to the right.

 

I also am centrist, but with social conscience driven ideals, and don't trust extremists. But I don't view the EU as extreme, I see as a worthy endeavor to bring peace, well-being and equality across a whole war-torn continent that has been largely successful. Nor do I put my trust in countries and most politicians, including the EU, but I DO judge people by what they do not by what they claim to do and say. Anyone can say anything and it is meaningless unless it's proven with action. The EU follow-through, generally. UK English parties mostly bullshit and cock-up.

The fantasy here is yours!

 

Thatcherism was hard-right - the current gov't is nothing like that bad.

 

UKIP only had one policy, and Brexit had too wide an appeal to be defined as hard-right.

 

So so so wrong. I loathed Thatcherism and everything she stood for, and the long-term damage she has caused to the country, but the current Tory party is much worse because what they are doing to Care, the NHS and local government is far more extreme than anything Thatcher did, not to mention hacking into the Police force, privatising prisons, reducing the military in favour of megabucks cock-showing-off giant ships and warheads that they can't afford to staff or use or have control of. They are also utterly incompetent liars, which is not something that the Tory party then could generally be accused of - as least they lived in the real world and had some brain cells to rub together.

So so so wrong. I loathed Thatcherism and everything she stood for, and the long-term damage she has caused to the country, but the current Tory party is much worse because what they are doing to Care, the NHS and local government is far more extreme than anything Thatcher did, not to mention hacking into the Police force, privatising prisons, reducing the military in favour of megabucks cock-showing-off giant ships and warheads that they can't afford to staff or use or have control of. They are also utterly incompetent liars, which is not something that the Tory party then could generally be accused of - as least they lived in the real world and had some brain cells to rub together.

 

We'll just have to agree to differ on this, then.

New poll puts Tories 4% ahead

 

http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/

 

Kantar have published a new voting intention poll ahead of the budget, the first I’ve seen from them since the general election. Topline figures are CON 42%, LAB 38%, LDEM 9%, UKIP 5%.

 

Details :

 

http://www.tns-bmrb.co.uk/sites/tns-bmrb/f...mber%202017.pdf

A one-off poll doesn't really tell us anything. If Kantar start doing monthly polls then they could at least demonstrate a trend.

A one-off poll doesn't really tell us anything. If Kantar start doing monthly polls then they could at least demonstrate a trend.

 

Of course - but I'm trying to pick up as many polls as possible.

 

On a side issue, I don't think underestimating the levels of youth voting could possibly account for the whole difference between the early pre-election polls, and the eventual close outcome. :unsure:

Edited November 23, 20177 yr by vidcapper

No, I don't think underestimating the youth vote accounted for the whole difference, but it was certainly a major factor. I suspect it also accounts for why the parties themselves were surprise by the result. I'm guessing that party workers (on all sides) didn't talk to many younger voters, meaning that they failed to detect their mood.

New poll puts Tories 4% ahead

 

http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/

 

Kantar have published a new voting intention poll ahead of the budget, the first I’ve seen from them since the general election. Topline figures are CON 42%, LAB 38%, LDEM 9%, UKIP 5%.

 

Details :

 

http://www.tns-bmrb.co.uk/sites/tns-bmrb/f...mber%202017.pdf

 

I can't take a poll seriously that weights 18-24s on a 19% turnout. !

 

But if it tells you what you want to see Vid, by all means put your faith in it...

I can't take a poll seriously that weights 18-24s on a 19% turnout. !

 

But if it tells you what you want to see Vid, by all means put your faith in it...

 

As I pointed out several posts back, being selective over polls is precisely the opposite of what I'm trying to do here.

I find it incredible that they decided that it was a good idea to model 18-24 turnout like that after the absolute roasting pollsters got from doing the same thing to a lesser degree during the election campaign.

Turnout among younger voters in the EU referendum was a lot higher than originally reported. That ought to have been a hint that things might be changing.

Turnout among younger voters in the EU referendum was a lot higher than originally reported. That ought to have been a hint that things might be changing.

 

Possibly they assumed it was a once-off for the Brexit vote? :unsure:

 

Possibly they assumed it was a once-off for the Brexit vote? :unsure:

Maybe, but it was surely reasonable to consider whether the result of the referendum would have angered younger voters enough to make them more likely to continue voting, even if they went for a party that tried to downplay its commitment to leave the EU.

Maybe, but it was surely reasonable to consider whether the result of the referendum would have angered younger voters enough to make them more likely to continue voting, even if they went for a party that tried to downplay its commitment to leave the EU.

 

what a tactful sentence! oh if only i could learn tact.... :lol:

Survation has Labour EIGHT points clear of the bumbling omnishambles of a Landed Gentry toff government! :cheer: :cheer:

 

Mad May, Bumbling Boris, Toff Mog, pack your bags and go.

Survation has Labour EIGHT points clear of the bumbling omnishambles of a Landed Gentry toff government! :cheer: :cheer:

 

Mad May, Bumbling Boris, Toff Mog, pack your bags and go.

 

It would have been more helpful if you'd provided the URL yourself. I assume this was it?

 

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/jere...d-over-11630864

 

http://survation.com/labour-extends-pollin...-conservatives/

 

Would it surprise you to know that the Mail reported on this poll?

 

 

You are as OTT with your rhetoric as ever though - 'landed gentry toff government' - anyone would think you were channeling Marx or Lenin! :lol:

Edited December 3, 20177 yr by vidsanta

^It doesn't surprise me given the poll was commissioned by the Mail on Sunday...

Survation got the election result SPOT ON by the way: http://survation.com/survation-most-accurate-pollster/

 

Their latest survey(as posed above):

 

State of the parties (chg vs 4-5th Oct)

 

LAB 45% (+1) CON 37% (-1) LD 6% (-1) UKIP 4% (NC) SNP 3% (NC) GRE 1% (NC) AP 3% (NC)

 

 

At 8 pts, this is our largest Labour lead since Oct 2013 and is LAB +15 CON -10 since May.

^It doesn't surprise me given the poll was commissioned by the Mail on Sunday...

 

True enough, but somehow I doubt that's where ChRiMbO LeG PiPe/'squashed Pumpkin' etc picked up the story from! :P