Wrong. Many of us simply don't buy the "threat to sovereignty" argument.

 

Then we'll just have to agree to differ on that. :mellow:

 

Regards

And you are simply wrong.

And you are simply wrong.

 

Then we'll just have to agree to differ on that. :P

 

Seriously though, you cannot prove that I don't believe what I said.

Then we'll just have to agree to differ on that. :P

 

Seriously though, you cannot prove that I don't believe what I said.

You are free to believe in unicorns if you wish. It doesn't alter the fact that they don't exist.

You are free to believe in unicorns if you wish. It doesn't alter the fact that they don't exist.

 

WTF do unicorns have to do with anything?

You can believe there's a threat to democracy but as has been pointed out he veto means your points is wrong.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/polit...a-a9695326.html

 

Ed Davey's first order of business appears to be a rather sensible statement of warning everyone away from the culture war trap that Cummings and Johnson are trying to push upon progressives.

 

Also a listening tour around community centres and shopping malls to try and lay foundations for Lib Dem support, amusing even if it shows signs of trying to rescue his party through a policy drive. Article likens it to doing a Paddy Ashdown, and best of luck to him in coming anywhere near close to that I suppose.

Unfortunately, Ed Davey doesn't come close to having Paddy Ashdown's charisma. It's going to be incredibly difficult to get the message across for as long as Covid dominates the agenda. Even the time-honoured practice of leafletting to attempt to make up for a lack of media coverage has had to be put on hold for months.

Also Ed Davey voted AGAINST a Customs Union (the only Lib Dem to do so) in the indicative votes on 1 April 2019, along with Change UK (remember them?) and Caroline Lucas in a vote that lost by 3.

 

I will remember that for a long time.

@1302684051170627586

 

After 2010 I will never trust a LibDem again. Their actions since have done little to persuade me otherwise. Now they have quietly abandoned their pro-EU stance.

 

Only pro-EU parties left are the Celtic independence concerns: SNP, Plaid, Greens (Sco)

Hang on. The Lib Dems were crucified here for sticking to pro-European principles at the last election. Now that there is a shift towards a pragmatic wait-and-see approach (which may yet move to a full-blown Rejoin policy by the next election), they are being crucified again.

 

I would love to rejoin the EU this week (although I would be prepared to wait until next week if necessary). However, that isn't an option. We have no idea how much damage this government will have caused by the next election and how many EU entry requirements we will no longer fulfil. The priority has to be to get rid of the incompetent shower currently in power.

 

Oh, and the party has NOT abandoned its pro-EU stance. The membership is overwhelmingly pro-EU and that is unlikely to change in the foreseeable future.

Opportunism. Just like with Tuition Fees - when it paid to be divisive and polarising they were - now that they are languishing at 6% in the polls, soon to be overtaken by the Green Party and suddenly it's unimportant.

Opportunism. Just like with Tuition Fees - when it paid to be divisive and polarising they were - now that they are languishing at 6% in the polls, soon to be overtaken by the Green Party and suddenly it's unimportant.

Yawn. OTOH, perhaps this is the time to remind people of Labour's two betrayals over tuition fees. Or Iraq. To repeat, the priority is to put an end to the shitshow that calls itself a government.

Yawn. OTOH, perhaps this is the time to remind people of Labour's two betrayals over tuition fees. Or Iraq. To repeat, the priority is to put an end to the shitshow that calls itself a government.

 

I am not, and nor have I ever been, part of the Labour Party. I actually voted Lib Dem in 2005 and 2010 so I am very au fait with their betrayal on Iraq and Tuition Fees.

 

If there is a slight difference between the two parties (and in light of the disgraceful comments at the dispatch box today) I'd say that the Labour Party is opportunistic in a very specific and limited way.

I never crucified them for their previous pro-EU platform, just their utter absurd position of being in favour of a second EURef but not Indyref2. We all saw the consequences Swinson faced for that stunning interpretation of democracy. As a supporter and voter of an explicitly pro-EU party I have no grounds to bring down the platform.

 

Just because we can’t rejoin tomorrow because they’re not the Gov doesn’t mean it should be abandoned as policy. Especially when you have a defacto referendum in May 2021 in Scotland and a LibDem party that has abandoned (even temporarily) it’s pro-EU stance leaves that 62% remain vote with only one real choice. Stunning own goal in the run up to Holyrood. Effectively resigned to 5th place in what a naive hope to claw back some votes in Wales? Are English councils electing next year as well?

To repeat, the Lib Dems have NOT abandoned their pro-EU stance. The chances of being able to start the process of rejoining before 2024 are close to zero. That is the reality so a wait-and-see approach seems reasonable. It's certainly a better approach than Corbyn's at the last election (whatever that actually was).

@1308037626838921216

 

 

And I ooop

First, the headline is misleading. The motion simple leaves all the options open and explicitly includes the possibility of re-joining. There will be amendments attempting to make that a firmer commitment to make re-joining a priority.

 

If the Fixed Term Parliament Act remains in place, the next election campaign will start in almost exactly three-and-a-half years. Who knows what this ghastly crew will have done by then? They may well have made rejoining in the course of a single parliament next to impossible. There are a lot of people (including many in the Labour party) who favour the idea of promoting a short-term government whose sole priority is to replace our corrupt electoral system. If that happens, EU membership will not be an issue at the next election. OTOH, leaving the EU may have proved to be such a disaster that Labour and the Lib Dems both run on an explicitly pro-rejoin platform even if it will take more than one parliament to get there.

The Lib Dem conference has passed (by an overwhelming majority) an amendment to "support a longer term objective of UK membership of the EU".

 

I have a suspicion that the party apparatchiks deliberately left such a commitment out of the original motion fully aware that conference conference would vote to put one in. It means that the party has voted for that commitment specifically and clearly rather than as part of a longer motion.

Well he might be a grower rather than a shower but Ed Davey is doing really well at the moment. Actually winning a Tory seat in Chesham (as opposed to Batley where Labour held), being unequivocally for Trans right and actually saying what the Tories are in this fantastic speech.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/s...y-says-ed-davey

 

If you are a minority in Labour, all Starmer will do is throw you under the bus. We’ll see what his exciting vision is like in due course but not holding my breath…