A couple of questions occur iro the Tory conference protests...

 

2. In what is ostensibly a peaceful protest, why do quite a few protestors feel the need to hide their faces?

 

Yesterday was Sunday. Most people don't work on a Sunday.

 

Fair point, but if they're back today...

 

What about my second point though?

2. In what is ostensibly a peaceful protest, why do quite a few protestors feel the need to hide their faces?

It takes all sorts. The vast majority didn't.

They're it again. Justine Greening announced yesterday that the earnings level at which graduates have to start repaying tuition fees is to go up from £21,000 to £25,000. What she didn't say (no doubt it just slipped her mind) was that the last change was when the Tories reduced the figure form £23,000 to £21,000.

 

In other news, Mayhem responded to questions about whether she regretted calling the election by saying that allowing people to vote was a good thing. Why, then, is she so adamant that we should not have a vote when the terms of leaving the EU are known?

Ah i love it when you can use politicians own blatant hypocrisy against themselves just by pointing out how they try and justify mistakes.... :cheer:

In other news, Mayhem responded to questions about whether she regretted calling the election by saying that allowing people to vote was a good thing. Why, then, is she so adamant that we should not have a vote when the terms of leaving the EU are known?

 

 

The electorate voted to leave and that's what we're doing so no further vote is needed and would be a waste of money.

The electorate voted to leave and that's what we're doing so no further vote is needed and would be a waste of money.

 

the country voted for Labour in 2005 so no further vote is needed and any further elections would be a waste of money.

 

In other words, I got the result I want so no more talk about democracy!

A lot of Leavers are dangerous deniers of democracy. They know that as the older generation dies out and the younger gets the vote, the more Remain wins.

A lot of Leavers are dangerous deniers of democracy. They know that as the older generation dies out and the younger gets the vote, the more Remain wins.

 

Except that opinion went from 'In' in 1975 to 'Out' in 2016, so when & why do you think that tread has/will reverse?

Um because of the demographics? Young people are 80% IN

 

And tha is because we don't listen to the billionaire lies propagated by thr sun and daily mail murdoch billionaire press

Um because of the demographics? Young people are 80% IN

 

And tha is because we don't listen to the billionaire lies propagated by thr sun and daily mail murdoch billionaire press

 

But many of those who voted out in 2016 would have been youngsters in 1975, so the idea that those who support it when young will continue to do so as they age, is problematic.

 

After all, I was a raving lefty when I was a teenager, but look at me now... ;)

 

This quote is attributed to various people, but while not entirely accurate, it does represent the trend towards conservatism as people get older.

 

'He who is not a socialist at 19, has no heart. He who is still a socialist at 30, has no brain'

 

************

 

As for the effect of the media on public opinion, the direction of cause & effect is unclear - do people choose newspapers because they support opinions they already hold, or vice versa? ISTM most people's opinions are formed when they are children, so it will be their parents or other children who will shape them most.

Edited October 3, 20177 yr by vidcapper

They were not born INTO a globalised sytem and he EU fully formed. THAT makes all the difference. They were bombarded by media brainwashing, all anti-EU. THAT made all the difference. The papers no longer have that power over the young. If the vote were held again, Remain would win.

 

Now that is why the UK willr everse this old people's decision a few years down the line.

I’m 30 in 2 years and I’m what you’d call a socialist (actually a social democrat) and I’d happily place a wager that of the two of us I’m not the one sans brain

Except that opinion went from 'In' in 1975 to 'Out' in 2016, so when & why do you think that tread has/will reverse?

 

Oh its all those Falkland War Non-serving, thatcher UK-flag-flying 80's Sun and News Of The World reading idiots that make the core of the 50-something Leavers.

 

watched them in action as I grew up and older, watch them now.

 

If anyone hasnt a brain cell between them it's someone who is presneted with evidence and chooses to believe fantasy

I don't get how Vidcapper does not understand this and clings to fantasy?

 

We will be back in the EU soon enough.

This time with the Euro, without a rebate and without a veto.

Hmm, so APPARENTLY, after voting against thr NHS 22x and once vs the proto idea 40 years earlier, whilst currently trying to sell it to the Americans, the man who is privatising is claimed at that crappy conference that the Tories made the NHS.

 

That is chillingly Orwellian.

 

Watch the BBTory and right wing papers report his speech without challenging the lie.

The electorate voted to leave and that's what we're doing so no further vote is needed and would be a waste of money.

It as a very narrow majority in an advisory referendum. The government made the advisory nature of the vote very clear when they refused to set any sort of threshold.

 

The cost of a referendum on the final deal will be the tiniest drop in a massive ocean when compared with the cost of the economy tanking.

They were not born INTO a globalised sytem and he EU fully formed. THAT makes all the difference.

 

This is a key point you've hit on, but not for the reason you intended.

 

We weren't born into such a system, we were *tricked* into it! :(

 

They were bombarded by media brainwashing, all anti-EU. THAT made all the difference. The papers no longer have that power over the young. If the vote were held again, Remain would win.

 

Now that is why the UK willr everse this old people's decision a few years down the line.

The same old article of faith. :rolleyes:

 

 

Oh its all those Falkland War Non-serving, thatcher UK-flag-flying 80's Sun and News Of The World reading idiots that make the core of the 50-something Leavers.

 

watched them in action as I grew up and older, watch them now.

 

If anyone hasnt a brain cell between them it's someone who is presneted with evidence and chooses to believe fantasy

 

You seem to be totally discounting their life experience - there's nothing better than that to counter propaganda.

 

That's why authoritarian gov'ts concentrate on the young, as they know the old are less susceptible to influence.

 

 

I don't get how Vidcapper does not understand this and clings to fantasy?

 

We will be back in the EU soon enough.

 

What I don't get is while you are so keen to give up our sovreignty?

 

This time with the Euro, without a rebate and without a veto.

 

If they wanted us to rejoin as a net contributor, they could not insist on all three!

 

It as a very narrow majority in an advisory referendum. The government made the advisory nature of the vote very clear when they refused to set any sort of threshold.

 

Oh, is that what 'This is your decision - we will implement what you decide' really meant? :rolleyes:

 

The cost of a referendum on the final deal will be the tiniest drop in a massive ocean when compared with the cost of the economy tanking.

 

Why do you use 'will', suggesting certainly, when you are actually only speculating?

 

 

This is a key point you've hit on, but not for the reason you intended.

 

We weren't born into such a system, we were *tricked* into it! :(

 

The same old article of faith. :rolleyes:

You seem to be totally discounting their life experience - there's nothing better than that to counter propaganda.

 

That's why authoritarian gov'ts concentrate on the young, as they know the old are less susceptible to influence.

What I don't get is while you are so keen to give up our sovreignty?

If they wanted us to rejoin as a net contributor, they could not insist on all three!

Oh, is that what 'This is your decision - we will implement what you decide' really meant? :rolleyes:

Why do you use 'will', suggesting certainly, when you are actually only speculating?

 

1. No we were tricked OUT of it. WE went into it with our eyes open. You were just a kid and didnt have the vote, it was voted on by people who had known decades of war and misery, not soft bitter people who had known decades of prosperity thanks to being IN the EU.

 

2. Another vote on the final deal should out that opinion once and for all.

 

3. No, people are VERY susceptible to influence regardless of age, especially those who get older and have less capacity for rational thought. They are frequently the targets of fraudsters, both actual and political. BTW having successfully raised a child does NOT make you any wiser or caring about what happens to others children. Every dictator there has ever been proves that, it just makes you think you are voting for what's best for YOU (and your own child), not society in general.

 

4. I'm older than you, therefore I have more life experience than you. When you grow up you will learn to be as wise as me. That's YOUR argument not mine BTW...

 

5. You are arguing about grammar. There is nothing wrong with Suedehead's statement. You are speculating there WON'T be another referendum on the outcome.

 

 

 

 

 

 

1. No we were tricked OUT of it. WE went into it with our eyes open. You were just a kid and didnt have the vote, it was voted on by people who had known decades of war and misery, not soft bitter people who had known decades of prosperity thanks to being IN the EU.

 

2. Another vote on the final deal should out that opinion once and for all.

 

3. No, people are VERY susceptible to influence regardless of age, especially those who get older and have less capacity for rational thought. They are frequently the targets of fraudsters, both actual and political. BTW having successfully raised a child does NOT make you any wiser or caring about what happens to others children. Every dictator there has ever been proves that, it just makes you think you are voting for what's best for YOU (and your own child), not society in general.

 

4. I'm older than you, therefore I have more life experience than you. When you grow up you will learn to be as wise as me. That's YOUR argument not mine BTW...

 

5. You are arguing about grammar. There is nothing wrong with Suedehead's statement. You are speculating there WON'T be another referendum on the outcome.

 

1. We *were* tricked in! We were told we were just signing up for a trading bloc, not a progression towards an economic & political union.

 

2. There's no sign there's going to be one.

 

3. Older people do not lose their capacity for rational thought, except in cases like Altzheimers & similar diseases, in which case they'd be incapable of voting at all.

 

4. Or perhaps it means that you have 'less capacity for rational thought than I - That's YOUR argument not mine BTW... :teresa:

 

5. It's almost exclusively Remainers who are demanding a 2nd referendum - we Leavers consider the issue already settled by the first.