What - I'm the only one not allowed to do that? ;)

From the above, I guess you made a lot of money as a consultant on Project Fear. :rolleyes:

 

Just accusing you of that which you regularly accuse me of (incorrectly) :P

 

Project Fact, I think it's been comprehensively established by now. And consultants are just paid political lackeys, for the most part (a bit like that firm behind Project Leave looking for cheap assets it can but out in the UK in cahoots with Johnson and his rich cronies also looking for the same). In other words, as someone who speaks his mind on any issue in a search for truth and cutting out claptrap lies and bollocks, a consultant is the last thing I would do. It would be a perfect vocation for yourself though, you're already doing it for free :teresa:

Someone has been doing some research and has unearthed the following...

 

http://www.richardcorbett.org.uk/we-were-never-hoodwinked/

 

Note that the first image is from the Daily Mail.

 

The issue was also addressed by the then Prime Minister Edward Heath in an open letter published in the Illustrated London News on the eve of our accession to the Common Market.

 

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=101...e=3&theater

 

Game, set and match I think.

yes, people get so used to years of repeated propaganda in the end they start to believe it was always fact, and that applies double to people who weren't even there.

 

There is so much history and fact on the net and people just google/tweet/share stuff to reinforce their own preconceived ideas and sidestep all those inconvenient truths as if they never existed or exist now.

Someone has been doing some research and has unearthed the following...

 

http://www.richardcorbett.org.uk/we-were-never-hoodwinked/

 

Note that the first image is from the Daily Mail.

 

The issue was also addressed by the then Prime Minister Edward Heath in an open letter published in the Illustrated London News on the eve of our accession to the Common Market.

 

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=101...e=3&theater

 

Game, set and match I think.

 

Are you familiar with the term Pyrrhic victory?

 

In any case, one thing we've certainly learned from this referendum campaign is that, just because a statement has gone on record *somewhere*, hardly means that it is universally known - and in 1974 there was no internet to ensure wide distribution of such information.

 

BTW, the 2nd URL didn't work for me.

 

 

yes, people get so used to years of repeated propaganda in the end they start to believe it was always fact, and that applies double to people who weren't even there.

 

There is so much history and fact on the net and people just google/tweet/share stuff to reinforce their own preconceived ideas and sidestep all those inconvenient truths as if they never existed or exist now.

 

I hope you are not claiming that *only* Leavers are susceptible to that, though?

Edited October 24, 20177 yr by vidcapper

Are you familiar with the term Pyrrhic victory?

 

In any case, one thing we've certainly learned from this referendum campaign is that, just because a statement has gone on record *somewhere*, hardly means that it is universally known - and in 1974 there was no internet to ensure wide distribution of such information.

 

BTW, the 2nd URL didn't work for me.

I hope you are not claiming that *only* Leavers are susceptible to that, though?

 

1. So you have backtracked on your statements that people didnt know what they were voting for now proof has been offered. Good. You were a child what do you remember of 1973? Blue Peter and Kung Fu probably. Let the grown-ups who WERE there tell you what they voted for....

 

2. I made no comment one-way or the other on people easily fooled by internet drivel. I prefer to let the facts speak for themselves. The lack of facts from the Brexiters remains constant, and the Remain campaign predictions coming true on a weekly basis (based on facts) should be enough for anyone with the ability to spot bullshit when it's stinking right up their nostrils regardless of which side they voted for (some notable Leavers are commenting precisely on this right now publicly, and how much it's going to damage the country. I have yet to hear one notable Remainer claiming it won't (except those having to deal with the lies directly in power, and who won't publish their studies and assessments on the effects to the economy). Teresa, cough, May.

1. So you have backtracked on your statements that people didnt know what they were voting for now proof has been offered. Good. You were a child what do you remember of 1973? Blue Peter and Kung Fu probably. Let the grown-ups who WERE there tell you what they voted for....

 

2. I made no comment one-way or the other on people easily fooled by internet drivel. I prefer to let the facts speak for themselves. The lack of facts from the Brexiters remains constant, and the Remain campaign predictions coming true on a weekly basis (based on facts) should be enough for anyone with the ability to spot bullshit when it's stinking right up their nostrils regardless of which side they voted for (some notable Leavers are commenting precisely on this right now publicly, and how much it's going to damage the country. I have yet to hear one notable Remainer claiming it won't (except those having to deal with the lies directly in power, and who won't publish their studies and assessments on the effects to the economy). Teresa, cough, May.

 

But this 'doubt' you claim among Leavers is not reflected in the polls, which show voters just as split as they were before the referendum.

The polls do indeed show little change since the referendum. However, I'm not sure how much manipulation is going on.

 

I assume (correct me if I'm wrong) that one of the adjustments they make is to ensure their sample starts with a 52-48 split for Leave. If Leave voters have changed their mind and also tell the pollsters that they voted Remain, the sample is going to be distorted. People who should count as "Leave, now Remain" would be counted as "Remain, still Remain".

 

If they are making such an adjustment, I would like to know whether the scale of that adjustment is increasing. After all, if their initial sample is consistently splitting 55-45 for Remain, that would suggest that opinion has shifted away from Leave.

The polls do indeed show little change since the referendum. However, I'm not sure how much manipulation is going on.

 

I assume (correct me if I'm wrong) that one of the adjustments they make is to ensure their sample starts with a 52-48 split for Leave. If Leave voters have changed their mind and also tell the pollsters that they voted Remain, the sample is going to be distorted. People who should count as "Leave, now Remain" would be counted as "Remain, still Remain".

 

If they are making such an adjustment, I would like to know whether the scale of that adjustment is increasing. After all, if their initial sample is consistently splitting 55-45 for Remain, that would suggest that opinion has shifted away from Leave.

 

Unfortunately we are rarely, if ever, told their methodology.

But this 'doubt' you claim among Leavers is not reflected in the polls, which show voters just as split as they were before the referendum.

 

...and we all know how accurate polls are when it comes to the big votes....

...and we all know how accurate polls are when it comes to the big votes....

 

Precisely - and the figures now are almost exactly what they were when Brexit won...

One thing Remainers are keeping quiet about...

 

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/brexit-m...d-a3666846.html

Probably because the positive bump from the worthless pound you have just referenced is greatly outweighed by the negative impacts. Exports/Dispatches aren’t up but imports/arrivals are more expensive which increases our trade deficit and harms the economy

One thing Remainers are keeping quiet about...

 

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/brexit-m...d-a3666846.html

That's a bit like saying that a major earthquake isn't all bad because of the extra tourists who visit the area to look at the damage.

Meanwhile, in the next stage of the right-wing coup, David Davis has said MPs may not get a vote the final deal until AFTER the UK has left the EU. He doesn't seem to have been asked what would happen if the government was defeated in that vote or how this is compatible with "taking back control".

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/polit...0-a8018761.html

Probably because the positive bump from the worthless pound you have just referenced is greatly outweighed by the negative impacts. Exports/Dispatches aren’t up but imports/arrivals are more expensive which increases our trade deficit and harms the economy

 

I dare say that if the value of the pound had climbed after Brexit, you'd have been saying that it harms our exports because it made them more expensive overseas.... :teresa:

 

The point is, there are pros & cons to *every* exchange rate movement, so it's misleading to insinuate that a falling pound is invariably negative.

 

 

That's a bit like saying that a major earthquake isn't all bad because of the extra tourists who visit the area to look at the damage.

 

Very droll. :rolleyes:

Well we haven't actually left the EU yet, so celebrating a short-term increase in the competitiveness of the UK's exports - notably much into the tariff free market we may be leaving in only 18 months - and a marked (but not exactly earth-shattering change to a long-term trend of increases in the past 10 years) step up in tourism due in part because of a 20% devaluation in £ is a little premature.

 

I'm sure those starting to suffer from 3% inflation, the majority of which is down to the devaluation in the £, won't be quite so jubilant.

Well we haven't actually left the EU yet, so celebrating a short-term increase in the competitiveness of the UK's exports - notably much into the tariff free market we may be leaving in only 18 months - and a marked (but not exactly earth-shattering change to a long-term trend of increases in the past 10 years) step up in tourism due in part because of a 20% devaluation in £ is a little premature.

 

I'm sure those starting to suffer from 3% inflation, the majority of which is down to the devaluation in the £, won't be quite so jubilant.

 

But most Brexiters will remember times of double-digit inflation & interest rates, so 3% is hardly going to intimidate them.

Well in a weird way you are right I suppose, because a majority of Brexiters are pensioners, and so the higher that inflation goes the higher their pension goes, keeping nicely in-step.

 

I was referring to those who are working and therefore finding that their wages are not keeping pace.

That's a bit like saying that a major earthquake isn't all bad because of the extra tourists who visit the area to look at the damage.

 

hah!

Well in a weird way you are right I suppose, because a majority of Brexiters are pensioners, and so the higher that inflation goes the higher their pension goes, keeping nicely in-step.

 

I was referring to those who are working and therefore finding that their wages are not keeping pace.

 

Absolutely true. I am taking a hit on my work pension and collecting it early (in January) but working flexibly at the same time (part-time) because I've worked out Im better off with the hit (and then having it pacing inflation for 6 years) than waiting till another 6 years of no-pay-increases and the massive rises in inflation I'm expecting will make it worth f***-all by 2024.

 

So, in fact, I'm putting my money where my mouth is, unlike those I'm Alright Jack's who are already there who don't give a toss about those working till they are 70 on wages worth increasingly less).

 

I look forward to Brexiteers protestations when their benefits/pensions get hit as the economy goes tits up and they get outvoted by those who can see they are doing much worse and the pendulum swings the other way, and they get to work for peanuts on all those farms (as the Tories are suggesting), or die from lack of investment in the NHS. Let's see how keen they are in 5 years time eh?