June 10, 20169 yr Sorry for the confusion guys. I've always referred to them as Yellow/Orange/Red/Black flags. Think it is or at least was at some point written into the framework.
June 11, 20169 yr Erik Hassle's veto will always be justified on the grounds of good taste. Absolutely f***ing vile. Almost as bad as Darin or Andreas Johnson *shudders* :P Well we all have different tastes, the main reason I was initially put off by BJSC was the hostility that is directed to people who don't share your music taste Silas (and your megalomania) I just wonder what the point of the whole framework is (wasting your lives going through every track entered) when obvious vetoes slip through the net, and unfair ones are blocked. Why not just trust people to enter something that is not cheap, and if they do then so be it and let the people judge it on its own merit. Life is too short for all this really. Edited June 11, 20169 yr by Doctor Blind
June 11, 20169 yr I think I've found Dr Blinds favourite movie http://www.filmjunk.com/images/weblog/sourgrapesdvd.jpg
June 11, 20169 yr The veto framework isn't foolproof, that's why there are mods and anything dubious is at their discretion. Without the framework people would moan more that it's unfair and I agree, it would be open to bias (I'm not saying the mods would do that, but there's the potential for it) and with the framework it gives an idea of what people can expect, we're not totally in the dark. I don't think we can or should abolish the veto entirely, we had that one contest without and to be fair it was ine, nobody totally took the piss and entered Euphoria, but I don't think we could trust that to happen every time. It would make things less about the songs and more about who's cheap and who's not, which I find is petty enough on here as it is! People just need to get over the fact that sometimes the veto is wrong, even with something that's being measured like this, it can't always right, the mods can't always be right. If "life is too short" surely it doesn't matter either way...
June 11, 20169 yr I have a question about the veto. Do some mods SEE the countries who send certain songs? As let's face it there ARE people who don't want certain others to win (Mikey the most open about this) and if mods see so and so unpopular country sending a song that flags points or whatever, isn't it more likely it would get vetoed than if a popular song or mod country sent it?
June 11, 20169 yr Do some mods SEE the countries who send certain songs? The mods haven't been able to see who has sent what for many many contests. In fact the only time we know is when someone with access to the staff forum volunteers that information when their own entry comes up for discussion. On the new spreadsheet the countries go into a hidden column for the host to look at.
June 11, 20169 yr They can just peak into that column though can't they? ny2 It's not a big deal though because i'm certain they'd never be biased when making the decision but I do wish they couldn't see the country names just so it's a bit more anonymous. Also it's changed from the past when it was just the host knowing who was sending what! Again not a big deal at all, but enough people know what others are sending before the contest anyway even without all of the mods and global mods knowing too. Is there anyway that could be changed and for the column to be removed? Probably not actually... ;o
June 11, 20169 yr Is there anyway that could be changed and for the column to be removed? Probably not actually... ;o Basically. Then the host would never know who sent what under the GF system. The mods have their jobs in part because they're trustworthy and fair people. I've been 'supervising' and I don't believe any of them have looked at the country column, much less made any veto decisions based on who might have sent an entry.
June 11, 20169 yr They can just peak into that column though can't they? ny2 It's not a big deal though because i'm certain they'd never be biased when making the decision but I do wish they couldn't see the country names just so it's a bit more anonymous. Also it's changed from the past when it was just the host knowing who was sending what! Again not a big deal at all, but enough people know what others are sending before the contest anyway even without all of the mods and global mods knowing too. Is there anyway that could be changed and for the column to be removed? Probably not actually... ;o Google sheets has a built in 'track changes'-esque feature that you can't turn off. It logs everything that happens to the sheet and allows you to restore previous versions. When you look at the detailed list you can see exactly who has made what changes - this is because the response sheet is locked down so that only the mods and hosts google accounts are able to access it. This is part of the reason I was very confident in the move to google. It removes bottlenecks in the system by allowing the moderators to see the changes in real time and google's slightly 1984 tendencies mean that we can see exactly who has made what changes to the sheet, and that includes hiding and unhiding columns! One of the things we have looked at was conducting the voting through google as it'd kill the risk of a host changing votes, or heavily influencing someone to change their vote over pm. So while in theory we could 'peak' it'd be very easy to spot someone who did. There's no real incentive to do so either, it has no bearing on what happens during the veto process (unless it's a moderator excusing themselves so they can't influence the outcome of the veto over their entry) and personally I really like the opening of the semi-finals when i get to find out who is behind these songs we've spent the week looking at. Means I still get some of the mystery and fun! ^_^
June 11, 20169 yr why don't y'all trust me i am feeling boucous bal shade I'm not saying it for trust issues, I said i'm sure the mods would never be biased - I said it's so less people know who has sent what when the contest starts. Was just offering a suggestion because we are all part of this contest together ~ I am very much in favour of the Google doc thing, it's made everything so much smoother and less bitty and as i've said before I really appreciate how fast this contest has been with decision making! So absolutely no shade here :cool:
June 11, 20169 yr I must have went a bit crazy at 8:39pm! :lol: It was all column unhiding and rehiding :lol:
June 11, 20169 yr Silas' choice of music *.* And I had completely forgotten about track changes being a thing, that's excellent, means I can quantify my earlier statement.
June 11, 20169 yr its a good suggestion BUT im not sure how well it works out but im not too technical with google sheets yet ps i'm surprised that it hasn't come up in the google thing that i basically delete the timestamp cell like every 2 days cos instead of going to googles homepage in my browser it goes to google sheets :'(
June 11, 20169 yr Pls dont let the voting go thru Google as well If yalls trust level is so low it's really worrying
June 11, 20169 yr Pls dont let the voting go thru Google as well If yalls trust level is so low it's really worrying It's not going to happen, at least not until there is a substantial change in the functionality of google forms. The data was far too messy and would have made things harder for hosts rather than easier. If we can embrace technology in someway that makes it easier for hosts to tally votes and prepare for the results thread then that is something that we will consider - when both the time and technology is right.
June 11, 20169 yr I didn't even realise us moderators can see what individual sent what when we are moderating the tracks, nor will I change that from this point forth.
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