So again Blairites are trying to parachute professional politicians into seats and preventing local candidates (who are normally more to the left) from participating in the democratic process.

Ay this kind of thing is a bit crap but in a way I'm not too worried about that if they manage to get the Tories out. Of course if they don't then god knows what will work.

That’s the problem after 13 years people say that but what’s the point if they install neo liberal professional robots into the next government - result nothing changes!

I personally think that every day that goes on with the Tories in power is damaging to our nation - destroying all standards in public life, privatising the NHS By stealth, removing right to protest, fixing voting for future elections in their favoour, syphoning OUR money off to their wealthy donors, stirring up vicious culture wars against minorities especially trans people, inhumane shipping of vulnerable refugees to danger in Rwanda, destroying our links with the EU and other nations which were previously very good, the list goes on...

 

Labour under Starmer will still have massive flaws but a damn sight better than Toires.

 

I don't mean to come across as saying that these things aren't worth mentioning and do understand the Left do have just cause to be annoyed but at the end of the day it is them (with help from Lib Dems hopefully) who can topple the most despicable government in history.

 

 

 

 

Absolutely Smint and very eloquently put. I guess I just get frustrated as I am now at an age when I can remember Labour governments can disappoint. Obv though they are far far better than this government we have now.

Sometimes local groups can nominate a complete embarrassment for whatever reasons, it has happened over the last few years. Far more important to look at the bigger picture and work at getting rid of the Tories. Whenever Labour forgets they need to win votes we end up with damaging Tory governments for 15 years. It's been almost 50 years since the Tories had a one-term go at power.

I think it’s just more to do with the fact Labour are a party of principles which can be divided across the board and need a more complex coalition of support to gain power than the tories.

@1538939029315624961

 

Labour party

It's the party of capital now. The party of 'nothing will fundamentally change'. The party of unappealing middle managers. The party too scared of Mail-reading dipshits to even try and change the conversation, preferring to get subducted under into one milquetoast term, possibly.

 

The RMT twitter union has been doing a better job of advocating for worker's rights than this incarnation of the Labour party. I hope the rail strikes are well received by the public, because they are possibly the most crucial line of defence UK workers have right now.

I was under the impression that picketing on behalf of a union was confined to the Union concerned, and 6 people maximum (or less in the case of small entrances). The last time I was on a picket line that was how we did it and no politician was there waving flags on our behalf. It's a bit late in the day to suddenly expect Labour MP's to start turning up (I'm aware some did just that determined to make Labour continue to be unelectable). Previous laws changed after the coal miners strikes (of which my brother was one and on strike for over a year). My brother is now a train driver, cos they closed all the pits despite promises they wouldn't. I will be supporting his union striking and he would support any I got involved in, but neither of us would TURN UP except to hand over a bag of chips or something to drink, and tbh that's down to the union to organise with the local Tesco or whatever.

 

Most people hate being inconvenienced and popular opinion is almost always against strikes. It's in everyone's interest to get talks going again. MP's are free to express their opinion. People are now free to not join a Union if they dont want to. Most people in Local Government choose not to join. We won't be getting an RPI rise for about the 12th year in a row (by about 7% under this year) but that's what you get for not being willing to go on strike. These days people prefer to leave Local Government entirely, in which case taxpayers are getting what they vote for. People generally moan about us and see us as gold-pension plated high-earners, which is not the case. I'm a degree-professional and my nephew who works for Lush gets the same pay as me. My brother gets double, at least. But then I don't have to deal with seeing people blown into pieces when the train hits people committing suicide, and I don't have the lives of passengers as my responsibility.

 

People moaning about high pay is usually based on jealousy. City Bankers, I know for a fact, get as much as train drivers for shoving bits of virtual paper around and spreadsheets and doing reports, which is a piece of (boring) piss compared to some jobs including mine.

 

Sorry, Bankers, I know some people love sitting at laptops in Canary Wharf. But nobody dies if you cock it up. Excluding when we bail you out and everyone gets poorer cos of shitty commercial decisions, of course......

The bonuses of people in the City (not all of course but a significant number) are record and obscene levels at the moment showing we are most definitely NOT in this together and all encouraged by our government https://inews.co.uk/news/no-10-planning-tea...co=in-line_link

 

And yes if they f*ck up then the taxpayer pays for it - a bit like Brexit really.

It's the party of capital now. The party of 'nothing will fundamentally change'. The party of unappealing middle managers. The party too scared of Mail-reading dipshits to even try and change the conversation, preferring to get subducted under into one milquetoast term, possibly.

 

The RMT twitter union has been doing a better job of advocating for worker's rights than this incarnation of the Labour party. I hope the rail strikes are well received by the public, because they are possibly the most crucial line of defence UK workers have right now.

 

@1539277133352259584

Well people should support them if they stood outside clapping for essential workers during the pandemic!

I was under the impression that picketing on behalf of a union was confined to the Union concerned, and 6 people maximum (or less in the case of small entrances). The last time I was on a picket line that was how we did it and no politician was there waving flags on our behalf. It's a bit late in the day to suddenly expect Labour MP's to start turning up (I'm aware some did just that determined to make Labour continue to be unelectable). Previous laws changed after the coal miners strikes (of which my brother was one and on strike for over a year). My brother is now a train driver, cos they closed all the pits despite promises they wouldn't. I will be supporting his union striking and he would support any I got involved in, but neither of us would TURN UP except to hand over a bag of chips or something to drink, and tbh that's down to the union to organise with the local Tesco or whatever.

 

However, photo ops are a thing, a small show of support for workers - by doing so for a strike with reasonable demands that is justified according to the country, that's not a hard ask, Labour show that they would solve the issues before it gets to this point.

 

Labour has shown tacit support for the strikes so far as part of a failure of Conservative leadership, which is why this demand that frontbenchers not attend is quite foot-shooting, because some of the junior frontbenchers have. Better to leave it up to personal choice but Starmer seems determined to control the party and that's not good for the future of the Labour movement or a Labour government.

 

Most people hate being inconvenienced and popular opinion is almost always against strikes. It's in everyone's interest to get talks going again. MP's are free to express their opinion. People are now free to not join a Union if they dont want to. Most people in Local Government choose not to join. We won't be getting an RPI rise for about the 12th year in a row (by about 7% under this year) but that's what you get for not being willing to go on strike. These days people prefer to leave Local Government entirely, in which case taxpayers are getting what they vote for. People generally moan about us and see us as gold-pension plated high-earners, which is not the case. I'm a degree-professional and my nephew who works for Lush gets the same pay as me. My brother gets double, at least. But then I don't have to deal with seeing people blown into pieces when the train hits people committing suicide, and I don't have the lives of passengers as my responsibility.

 

Surely all of this is indicating that those in local government should be joining a union?! Unions are the avenue by which the workers retain some power over their lives. And yes you sometimes get bullish unions and those with high fees but at this point the pendulum is swung so far against the worker that it's good to see some proper union action by the RMT, who from what I've seen have conducted themselves impeccably. The option to strike must remain for all workers, or the employer will take all they can get.

 

See I've been loving seeing clips of Mick Lynch showing up everywhere, someone really speaking truth to power by correctly analysing exactly the media strategy that Tories and the media use to control the conversation and refusing to play their game. If only Labour had people like him.

 

(I don't think it was Lynch who got flustered here)

 

@1539166310227116034

@1539299047567245312

 

 

Yes Mick Lynch's complete dismantling of the corrupt capitalist way of life in under a minute is a joy to behold!

I don't remember the last time I was so impressed with someone during their media rounds — Mick Lynch is fantastic.

He succeeded in making Kay Burley look like an ABSOLUTE idiot there without even having to try.

He may watch himself he will no doubt become the new Arthur Scargill when the Daily Mail and Co gets a look at him!

Meanwhile our bunch of facists in charge say that inflationary pay rises for Public Sector would be reckless - ie "get into debt and starve to extra furnish the bank accounts of our rich company directors and donors you minions." :rolleyes:

However, photo ops are a thing, a small show of support for workers - by doing so for a strike with reasonable demands that is justified according to the country, that's not a hard ask, Labour show that they would solve the issues before it gets to this point.

 

Labour has shown tacit support for the strikes so far as part of a failure of Conservative leadership, which is why this demand that frontbenchers not attend is quite foot-shooting, because some of the junior frontbenchers have. Better to leave it up to personal choice but Starmer seems determined to control the party and that's not good for the future of the Labour movement or a Labour government.

Surely all of this is indicating that those in local government should be joining a union?! Unions are the avenue by which the workers retain some power over their lives. And yes you sometimes get bullish unions and those with high fees but at this point the pendulum is swung so far against the worker that it's good to see some proper union action by the RMT, who from what I've seen have conducted themselves impeccably. The option to strike must remain for all workers, or the employer will take all they can get.

 

 

@1539166310227116034

 

So it's a photo op then. It's not like Starmer is a fascist he's trying to ensure Labour stops shooting itself in the foot because he's old enough to remember the 80's and the last 4 general elections. Letting Tories get in control just makes situations ever-more-worse, and, just to be fair, he sat through the Corbyn years where centrists were treated like the enemy and the main achievement of Momentum was proving the laws of physics. A brick chucked at a window of a fellow Labour member goes through the window due to momentum. They tried to get rid of people who didn't toe the party line. Hardly showing tolerance and setting an example, and I will continue to blame Corbyn for his half-arsed campaigning for Brexit which gifted us the shower we have now running the country. Just like Scargill and co in the 70's and 80's gifted us Thatcher. Stop collecting dustbins for weeks and people will vote the other way eventually when they get pissed off. That's just reality, not a political statement.

 

Re: Local Gov. Yes, they should join a Union but most people just see a weak union and losing weekly fees so it's a self-fulfilling prophecy. We, as a Union, voted not to strike for more money because we know perfectly well after Covid debts there was zero chance of getting anything much. I can assure you that the majority of those not in the union are even less "militant" to coin a phrase beloved of Dom Raab (ie anyone having the temerity to lose a days pay to demonstrate they are getting worse off each year). So what happens instead is people leave Local Gov and they waste more money spending on the private sector to cover jobs they cant fill. Insanity. I'm totally in favour of striking in principle and unions are essential in a healthy democracy. Thats why I'm still a member after 30-odd years, and a Union Rep, for what it's worth - and I'm always very quick to slag shitty decisions by those in control off to the Union and to the Council itself. I'm near retirement so I dont give a toss what I say to anyone in power, I've got nothing to lose (see your comment about admiring people who tell it like it is) and I'm happy to put it in writing. I've seen it all before and I'm very quick to take the piss and say "I told you so" when it goes tits up and they do a U turn after wasting money. The bozos elected in our Council always think they are inventing something new and exciting to save money, and it invariably turns out to to be the same old disasters previous Tories have made.

 

But that doesn't stop members of the public getting pissed off at being inconvenienced, and it plays into the hands of the right-wing press who always go straight for the sob stories of the poor people having to cancel stag parties or get the bus to work thanks to these "militant loons". Boo hoo hoo! It's a balance between what you gain and what you lose by going on strike. Being right doesn't mean you win, sometimes you do sometimes you dont. As the Miners found out. Everyone lost. Union laws were massively weakened. Coal mines were closed to end their power forever. Ironically, now we don't want them Bozo is talking about opening one. You couldnt make it up.....