Starfish (the guys Lex refers to above) apparently wrote Keep Running in this year's Estonian selection which has already been pointed out as a fave by Adam. Rumours are that the Emmelie de Forest song from the writing camp a couple of months ago has also made it too.

 

I'd be quite happy for us to outsource all our songs seeing as British songwriters are too snobby, let the Swedes or the Danes get some credit seeing as they would love the association!

tbh after the awful, cringe-worthy lyrics of 'You're Not Alone' even a 5 year old would probably write a better song than half of the British songwriters entered :lol:

Starfish (the guys Lex refers to above) apparently wrote Keep Running in this year's Estonian selection which has already been pointed out as a fave by Adam. Rumours are that the Emmelie de Forest song from the writing camp a couple of months ago has also made it too.

 

I'd be quite happy for us to outsource all our songs seeing as British songwriters are too snobby, let the Swedes or the Danes get some credit seeing as they would love the association!

I am perched for a once relevant balladeer like Leona to revive her career with a Kempe written Undo clone in 2020 tbh

I'd be quite happy for us to outsource all our songs seeing as British songwriters are too snobby, let the Swedes or the Danes get some credit seeing as they would love the association!

 

Have to say I don't care who writes our entry as long as it's credible.

 

I don't think British songwriters are too snobby though - what is the motivation for an exstablish songwriter to enter? Regardless of outcome over the last 20 or so years even if we have had good songwriters the result is low sales, songwriters motivation is to get a hit and they will place it where they will get the best return - year after year Eurovision has proved it is not a hit making show in the UK.

It's a very low bar to be grateful for something as dull and basic as Icebreaker. At this point I honestly think we need to be crying out for something fun, even if it is cheap and tacky. We're not going to get a well made and serious song and settling for drab mediocre ones just compounds the problem in every way possible.

 

Yes I know these are the exact tactics that led us to Scooch and Electro Velvet. I don't see a problem with this these days.

I don't think we should settle for something cheap and fun as it won't get us out of the bottom 10, settling for that would mean we've given up on making Eurovision a "respectable" contest for our higher level artists to want to compete in. Unless by cheap and fun you mean the likes of "Bombo" rather than the novelty-leaning fun songs which is fair enough!

 

All it takes is one song. I firmly believe if one of our 6 songs turned out to be Lithuania's "Like I Love You" and we selected it, we'd be top 5-10 in the odds all the way up to the final. "Like I Love You" might not seem like anything special but it is perfectly on trend with a very catchy hook and fantastically produced. It's a potential top 5 in the jury vote. With the right staging it would then give us a top 10 finish, but that is where we have let ourselves down badly in the past even when we have a song with potential.

Last year a big group of us watched the Semi's and Final on Rabb.it and it was incredible to see everyone's reactions so you could 100% join in on that!

It was hilarious to see :lol:

I don't think we should settle for something cheap and fun as it won't get us out of the bottom 10, settling for that would mean we've given up on making Eurovision a "respectable" contest for our higher level artists to want to compete in. Unless by cheap and fun you mean the likes of "Bombo" rather than the novelty-leaning fun songs which is fair enough!

 

All it takes is one song. I firmly believe if one of our 6 songs turned out to be Lithuania's "Like I Love You" and we selected it, we'd be top 5-10 in the odds all the way up to the final. "Like I Love You" might not seem like anything special but it is perfectly on trend with a very catchy hook and fantastically produced. It's a potential top 5 in the jury vote. With the right staging it would then give us a top 10 finish, but that is where we have let ourselves down badly in the past even when we have a song with potential.

 

Well, we have given up on making it respectable. Maybe one of the years down the line we'll get a big name doing it because they're bored and want to tick something off, or someone will come up with something amazing from nowhere and instead of making it a real hit and getting their name out there for general music fame, will waste their 15 minutes on one song contest. But most years neither of those will happen, we'll continue to send average, mediocre crap that will continue to go absolutely nowhere to the continual surprise of everybody even though they should know better. That one song that we're waiting for will probably never happen (almost certainly not in the strength it needs to be, I swear people would take a top half finisher as being 'that one song' now) and if it does, I really think we're too far gone for it to turn the thing around on its own.

 

And I say novelty, in the true sense of the word (although a fun uptempo party song wouldn't be bad), because Eurovision needs novelty right now far more than it needs ballads or midtempos, they're what get the most views and discussion pre-contest and the last couple of contests haven't really had any "classics" which if it continues will have to impact on viewing figures somewhere along the line - so even if they don't get us out of the bottom 10, it'd be worth it. It might as well be a silly song rather than a boring song. The likes of Joe & Jake or any of the dull pop that's been so many of our entries this century is the last thing we should be sending - particularly as everyone has gotten so bloody serious in the world of music lately.

I wonder if people will try to get us to leave Eurovision with Brexit tbh? The weak BBC will then coq dwn to pressure from Teresa May who will have already bowed down to a campaign by the Murdoch press to leave the comp...

 

#psychicbeaver

Well, we have given up on making it respectable. Maybe one of the years down the line we'll get a big name doing it because they're bored and want to tick something off, or someone will come up with something amazing from nowhere and instead of making it a real hit and getting their name out there for general music fame, will waste their 15 minutes on one song contest. But most years neither of those will happen, we'll continue to send average, mediocre crap that will continue to go absolutely nowhere to the continual surprise of everybody even though they should know better. That one song that we're waiting for will probably never happen (almost certainly not in the strength it needs to be, I swear people would take a top half finisher as being 'that one song' now) and if it does, I really think we're too far gone for it to turn the thing around on its own.

 

And I say novelty, in the true sense of the word (although a fun uptempo party song wouldn't be bad), because Eurovision needs novelty right now far more than it needs ballads or midtempos, they're what get the most views and discussion pre-contest and the last couple of contests haven't really had any "classics" which if it continues will have to impact on viewing figures somewhere along the line - so even if they don't get us out of the bottom 10, it'd be worth it. It might as well be a silly song rather than a boring song. The likes of Joe & Jake or any of the dull pop that's been so many of our entries this century is the last thing we should be sending - particularly as everyone has gotten so bloody serious in the world of music lately.

 

Hmm I feel like we've made progress since Guy Freeman took over in 2014, and he has stuck to the plan he outlined right from the beginning. Molly had all the elements of success, she was just let down by a bad live performance and horrific camerawork - and the song in hindsight needed that final polish. I think 2015 was just a massive misfire. In 2014 they hadn't had a public submissions for a while, and knew they needed to try and restore a bit of a reputation to be able to get the public interested. It nearly paid off but after Molly's underperformance, the level of submissions for 2015 wasn't what they expected - if Molly had gone top 5 I imagine there would have been a couple of gems to be found in 2015. Electro Velvet was just the best of a bad bunch.

 

Last year continued the plan to move from internal selection with no public submissions to internal selection with public submissions to complete public national final and it felt like a good move forward. You're Not Alone was a decent outcome but unfortunately found itself in what I believe was the strongest Eurovision that I have known. I think going back to a Scooch would undo what does seem to be a slow move forward, and it feels like we are moving forward a little bit more this year if an Emmelie de Forest co-write and a Starfish composition are amongst the line-up. It's no G:son or top level British team but it's continual progress. If we keep taking little steps forward, there's no reason we can't be an Australia in 10-15 years time sending fairly well-known artists with songs by one of Australia's biggest songwriting teams. Guy certainly didn't have a negative impact after it and Dami has saved her career.

 

I've always been anti-novelty, the only worthy novelty acts in recent years have been the Russian grannies and Verka, and I had a soft spot for Silvia Night too. These last few contests have been so refreshing, and as I say, 2016 was the highest quality contest I've known - the only criticism that it was perhaps a little too "English radio-pop" but I didn't mind that. Maybe UK viewers watch for novelty, but I imagine the majority of Europe don't. There were signs with Frans that Eurovision could translate to the Spotify world, imagine if various labels were pushing their entries on Spotify prior to the contest and they were having success (say if Frans went top 40 in the UK prior to the contest and therefore had radio plays). I think that could provide just as much pre-contest hype as a novelty act does, and it would be so much more sustainable and a positive type of hype.

 

I've gone off on a tangent there, I know you were talking UK and I've gone off talking not UK! :heehee: But I think the UK shouldn't just give up, and keep following the path to become a successful Eurovision participant!

Oh, I know the last few years have made what seems like progress - and I'm ready to be proved wrong when this lineup comes out. I hope we've learned lessons from last year and will send things that stand out. Anything that stands out. Decent is not good enough. Decent is the worst outcome (hence, bottom 2) and the longer Guy Freeman keeps doing decent the less likely I'm going to be convinced of this progress. For Eurovision, we need something that will elicit STRONG emotions in people. Nothing in last year's selection would have done that and I'm not confident that anything in this year's selection will. Being like Australia is a pipe dream.

 

And yes, on a wider contest level, I need something novelty. From any country willing to do the deed in lieu of some faceless boring dirge, it should be a no brainer. Eurovision is a fun contest, it gets casual viewers from having fun stuff, I know it's more pronounced here but I can't imagine that the rest of Europe is tuning in to be serious critic about pop songs for 3 hours and neither should you. It's great that the last few contests have been high on quality for music but I think it isn't as good that the worst thing I can say about most of the entries I wasn't so keen on is that they were a bit boring. That'll eventually make it more of a chore to sit through and it won't pick up and keep as many viewers, even if the young tune in for Spotify hits, which I think this year will have to be the test of that, see if we get a Frans clone or two (good god but if it helps the contest I'm okay with it). A couple of good novelty songs a year to keep the parties entertained is all I ask, you can surely give up a couple of simpering love ballads to do that.

I was team Joe and Jake last year as it was my favourite song, but Darline would've been the best choice for Eurovision as they would've stood out (in a good way, sorry Dulcima) at least. Although they would've been overshadowed by Douwe, but at least country was a field of two whereas pop was a field of thirty plus. Not that I think Darline were experienced enough performers to get out of that bottom 10 but it would've at least been a better chance than Joe and Jake were. I'm hoping Emmelie de Forest give us another 'Never Alone'. While that song was very Eurovision-by-numbers it definitely elicits emotion in some people, I get goosebumps every time I watch Anja's performance.

 

One or two novelties is fine, but it's very rare they make it through to the final now. In fact how many novelty entries have made it to the final since 2009? Just Buranovskiye Babushki? Whereas Gipsy.cz, Marko Kon & Milaan, Valentina Monetta (part 1), Serhat all haven't. So the majority of viewers won't see novelty acts anyway, even if more countries do turn them in. Of course on the UK side, you are right in that our pass to the final means we can inflict novelty on people and they can't avoid it.

 

I think stage performances make Eurovision just as fun. Nina's crazy dress change would have got a few giggles, Sergey's wall climb would have wowed and shocked, Zlata's giant and subsequent camera shots would have certainly generated reactions, Aliona Moon's growing dress would've wowed and caused giggles. I think Eurovision is fun without novelty songs. The performances make up for it. I'm all for crazy performances when they have decent songs to back them up, I just don't think we need to have purposely cheap songs as well. Surely 99% of people would've found Laura Tesoro's disco performance more entertaining than Serhat's? I bet most people found Pasha Parfeny's wonderfully fun "Lautar" more entertaining that Valentina's Social Network Song performance.

 

I'm for complete novelty when it is amazing novelty - Verka, grannies. And I agree it'd be nice to have a few more fun songs, but only if they are quality fun songs rather than laugh-at-it-cos-it's-so-bad fun that I am assuming you are referring to when you say novelty. I think normal pop songs can provide the most fun and enjoyable performances without having to sacrifice Eurovision's improving reputation for silly songs that won't even make the Saturday.

That was another thing, I don't think stage performances are cutting it for the entertainment factor. Unless they go really over the top, but it seems most are content to shove one unusual element in there and be done with it.

 

And no, I do mean quality fun songs to make it through to the final. But I also want intentionally bad songs too. Whether they DNQ or not it helps separate out the field and gives a villain figure, making my experience of following Eurovision more interesting.

I do agree with Iz that we need more 'novelty' songs at Eurovision ('Laika' would've become an instant iconic classic last year) but I think the UK is the wrong country to be doing it. 1) We can't do fun novelty songs well (hai Electric Velcro) and 2) We have one of the most successful music industries in the world let alone Europe, so I think, juries especially, would be a little bit more peeved at a UK novelty entry than say one coming from Estonia. Also with our free pass to the final, we should be submitting entries that would have a good chance of qualifying had it had to go through a semi. There's no way 'You're Not Alone' would've made it to the final last year.

 

And Ryan mentioned us being an 'Australia' in 10 years time in terms of the profile of artists we send. Let us not forget, we had acts like Hurts and Katie Melua ready and willing to do it 6 or 7 years ago, yet the BBC turned them down! It's no wonder the contest is seen as the poisoned chalice it is in the UK.

I can't at Ryan trying to peddle Verka and the grannies as amazing novelty when they're the absolute worst. The best novelty is the likes of Scooch and Dustin the Turkey!!

Novelty only works when you have a "charm", which rarely features. Scooch most certainly did NOT have it.

 

The 50/50 jury split ha, I think, upped the quality and I'm glad to see the back of novelty entries (or mostly anyway).

I think both Iz and Ryan are wrong in different ways :P To me it's not so much a problem of a novelty - serious binary as much as its a case of not fully committing to the style that the songs were going for. That's the main reason why the last three UK entries were such disappointments relative to what they could have been if the likes of Sweden had presented the same stuff. 'Children of the Universe' was trying to be a big anthemic 'come together' epic but it was staged completely wrong, 'You're Not Alone' was a duet about friendship in which the two singers only even frigging looked at each other at the climax of the song and I maintain that 'Still In Love With You' would've done far better if a country like Moldova had sent it because they would have known to go with a Baz Luhrman's Moulin Rouge style all out melodrama rather than the tepid 'we'll walk down some stairs because there were stairs in the preview video' type of thing that we got.

 

Contrast that with 1944, Sound of Silence, You Are The Only One, If Love Was A Crime, If I Were Sorry, Jai Cherche, LoveWave, Colour of Your Life and Loin D'ici. The common factor of all of those is that they have the self confidence to know what kind of songs they are and so go with it and stylise the crap out of what they've got while the UK songs usually end up not living up to their potential because they don't have the creativity to push the boat out.

 

Basically they can write as good a song/hire in as good a songwriting team as they want but they'd be making far much more use of their money to hire in somebody else who knows what they're doing staging wise otherwise the songs won't even get a look in.

JURY VOTE IN THE NATIONAL FINAL CONFIRMED (sneakily via the programme description)

Not sure how I feel about that / whether it's necessary. The public managed to pick the right song last year so as long as the jury don't screw it up..like Terry did with "Even If".

I hope the 'jury' know what they are talking about and aren't as awful as the jury that we actually sent last year to the ESC that gave Georgia 12...