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But surely that's no different from respondents who though The Guardian was pro-Brexit?

The Guardian hasn't used its front page to campaign for Remain. Anybody who only looked at the front page could be left uncertain about the Guardian's stance; the same cannot be said of the Mail etc.

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No because the Guardian has comment sections that do reflect both sides of the debate. It would be easier to understand why they had a small pro-Brexit stance
No because the Guardian has comment sections that do reflect both sides of the debate. It would be easier to understand why they had a small pro-Brexit stance

 

The Mail has comment sections too - doesn't that matter?

The Mail has comment sections too - doesn't that matter?

Every page of the Mail is a comment section. How many pro-remain articles did the Daily Mail publish in the referendum campaign?

Every page of the Mail is a comment section. How many pro-remain articles did the Daily Mail publish in the referendum campaign?

 

How many were they obliged to...?

How many were they obliged to...?

You really don't get it, do you? A proper newspaper may have its distinct political stance but also allows another views to be expressed. A propaganda sheet only publishes articles that support its point of view. Can't you spot the difference?

You really don't get it, do you? A proper newspaper may have its distinct political stance but also allows another views to be expressed. A propaganda sheet only publishes articles that support its point of view. Can't you spot the difference?

 

It is you that doesn't get it - a newspaper can take whatever political stance it chooses - if people don't like that, then they won't buy it.

It is you that doesn't get it - a newspaper can take whatever political stance it chooses - if people don't like that, then they won't buy it.

So you think it is fine to have an electorate that is woefully ill-informed? Newspapers should be about informing people, not spreading propaganda. There's a clue in the name.

 

Ill-Informed people make bad decisions. Look at the front page of today's Express for an example. Leave aside the hysterical nature of the headline (more misinformation) and look at the substance. People were given more freedom in what to do with their pension fund. To the surprise of precisely nobody with an active brain cell, some people cashed in their pension fund without considering the tax implications. Now they find that they have a hefty tax bill to pay - all because they made a bad decision based on a lack of knowledge. In this example, it is the people who made the bad decisions who will suffer. In other cases, we all do.

So you think it is fine to have an electorate that is woefully ill-informed? Newspapers should be about informing people, not spreading propaganda. There's a clue in the name.

 

And that might be a problem if the Mail was their *only* source of info - but it isn't.

 

Besides, who is the arbiter of 'correctly informed' - that idea leads to dictatorship.

Edited by vidcapper

And that might be a problem if the Mail was their *only* source of info - but it isn't.

 

Besides, who is the arbiter of 'correctly informed' - that idea leads to dictatorship.

Nobody here is suggesting such a thing. However, if we don't have the most biased press in a democracy, I really do despair for the county that does hold that unwanted title. If all the propagandistic front pages in referendums and election campaigns counted towards election expenses, the Tories and the Leave campaign would have broken the spending limit by a massive sum.

And that might be a problem if the Mail was their *only* source of info - but it isn't.

 

Besides, who is the arbiter of 'correctly informed' - that idea leads to dictatorship.

 

when the press is owned by foreign-billionaires and foreign-dwelling millionaires, one might say we already have a part-dictatorship - propaganda peddled by self-serving people with agendas praying on the badly-informed. They also hold sway over politicians with threats of ruining governments by throwing their weight behind agendas that can bring them down. Why do you think May and previous PM's have been forced to suck-up-to and court foreigner Rupert Murdoch? because he is powerful and can bring them down with his propaganda.

 

That isn't my idea of freedom of the press, that's abuse of the press using propaganda instead of well-argued well-thought-out fair-minded in-depth comments.

 

"Enemies Of The People" is the sort of headline used by dictators controlling the press. Just a different sort of dictator, one who pulls the strings from behind the scenes without having to actually do anything or suffer the consequences for lying and getting it wrong.

Nobody here is suggesting such a thing. However, if we don't have the most biased press in a democracy, I really do despair for the county that does hold that unwanted title. If all the propagandistic front pages in referendums and election campaigns counted towards election expenses, the Tories and the Leave campaign would have broken the spending limit by a massive sum.

 

But the rules don't cover private individuals using their own resources the promote a political agenda.

 

when the press is owned by foreign-billionaires and foreign-dwelling millionaires, one might say we already have a part-dictatorship - propaganda peddled by self-serving people with agendas praying on the badly-informed. They also hold sway over politicians with threats of ruining governments by throwing their weight behind agendas that can bring them down. Why do you think May and previous PM's have been forced to suck-up-to and court foreigner Rupert Murdoch? because he is powerful and can bring them down with his propaganda.

 

That isn't my idea of freedom of the press, that's abuse of the press using propaganda instead of well-argued well-thought-out fair-minded in-depth comments.

 

"Enemies Of The People" is the sort of headline used by dictators controlling the press. Just a different sort of dictator, one who pulls the strings from behind the scenes without having to actually do anything or suffer the consequences for lying and getting it wrong.

 

IMO it is bluff that needs to be called - if politicians as a whole resisted the foreign billionaires influences, they'd be rendered powerless.

 

Maybe they could bring down the gov't, but what good would that do them - it's hard to imagine an alternate left-leaning, Corbyn led gov't wanting to be dictated to by 'fat-cat capitalists'!

But the rules don't cover private individuals using their own resources the promote a political agenda.

IMO it is bluff that needs to be called - if politicians as a whole resisted the foreign billionaires influences, they'd be rendered powerless.

 

Maybe they could bring down the gov't, but what good would that do them - it's hard to imagine an alternate left-leaning, Corbyn led gov't wanting to be dictated to by 'fat-cat capitalists'!

 

they distort the political process, that's the point.

they distort the political process, that's the point.

 

To be pedantic, *everything* distorts the political process to some degree - but I accept your point.

Campaigners lose their High Court bid to force the Government to release its full sectoral studies on the economic impact of Brexit

 

Campaigners want ministers to publish full versions of sectoral Brexit analysis

High Court judge threw out their bid for a judicial review to force publication

EU publishes its negotiating stance tomorrow in a crunch moment for Brexit

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-54...ral-papers.html

 

 

The full version of the Leave campaign slogan should have been

 

Take Back Control (and give it to the Prime Minister. BTW, we won't tell you who that PM will be, but it won't be the plastic-faced idiot in charge at the moment.We'll dump him. As for how we exercise that control, it's none of your business you plebs.

The full version of the Leave campaign slogan should have been

 

Take Back Control (and give it to the Prime Minister. BTW, we won't tell you who that PM will be, but it won't be the plastic-faced idiot in charge at the moment.We'll dump him. As for how we exercise that control, it's none of your business you plebs.

 

Even as an acronym that would have been too much of a mouthful! :P

You couldn't make it up (post-referendum version) part 196,037

 

Remember the Act passed under Cameron which said there had to be a referendum to ratify any legislation changing our relationship with the EU? Turns out lawyers are advising that this may apply to the EU (Withdrawal) Bill. So, just in case, the government are trying to sneak through repeal of the Act. However, to add to the fun, it could be argued that repeal of the Act would itself require a referendum.

 

Anyone still think this government has a clue what it is doing?

Did that part counter reset at the start of 2018? It feels a little low

 

 

One of the UKIP MEPs was on twitter today bemoaning the EU standing up to Trumps trade war nonsense by complaining about the number of tariffs the EU has. Oblivious to the fact that nearly every country in the world shares the same set of tariff codes. It literally underpins world trade. I’m not saying there should be an IQ test to be an elected official, but if there was not a single UKIPer would pass

Another Kipper on Twitter gave the impression he was previously unaware of the protected status given to products such as Stilton cheese, Scotch whisky and Cornish pasties. According to yesterday's i the Americans are hoping to persuade the UK to drop that protection if we leave the EU. That would allow the Americans to sell us copies of those products and be able to use that name (as well as calling any old fizzy rubbish champagne, any hard cheese Parmesan etc.).

 

I'm prepared to consider allowing those products as long as the the government legislates to ensure that the products carry messages such as "Inferior foreign copy", "This is not real" or "Rubbish fake copy" on at least 80% of the surface area of the packaging - all in the interests of informing the customer of course.

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