Am I not allowed to do that, then?

 

I've never denied being authoritarian where crime is concerned, bot OTOH I have *never* said it's OK for minorities to be oppressed. Surely specific statements like that are what count, rather than what could be mistakenly inferred from generalised statements?

Do you really think I'd disagree with that? :o

 

If it makes you happy, then I will confirm that I'm OK for you to do that. Other Cheltonians might not feel the same way, though.

But I've never suggested that the law should be changed in the way you claim I want. The only changes I have advocated is that we be harder on criminals (which incidentally include the racists that we both detest).

From you, or from me? :teresa:

 

From you. Swaying in the breeze again. One minute it's all "freedom of speech!" then it's "except where the current law is fine". Make your mind up. Do I take it you no longer will endlessly go on about people having the right to express and push racist or bigfoted agendas? This is called "hate speech" and is against the law?

 

Glad we got that settled then.....

From you. Swaying in the breeze again. One minute it's all "freedom of speech!" then it's "except where the current law is fine". Make your mind up.

 

I did, long ago.

 

You admit to not understanding my position, so it's no wonder it must seem inconsistent to you.

 

Do I take it you no longer will endlessly go on about people having the right to express and push racist or bigfoted agendas? This is called "hate speech" and is against the law?

 

Glad we got that settled then.....

 

Don't hold your breath. ;)

 

Seriously though, having the right to do it, still doesn't mean they *can* do it without consequences. e.g. you can shout 'fire' in a crowded cinema, but unless there really *is* a fire, you can be held responsible for any negative consequences.

Not sure what this has to do with the EU

 

But are you REALLY conflating being anti racist with being homophobic? Really???

Not sure what this has to do with the EU

 

But are you REALLY conflating being anti racist with being homophobic? Really???

 

No.

Sure looked like it.

 

Oops

Sure looked like it.

 

Oops

 

I'm just not very good at analogies, apparently. :blush:

Couldn't resist this headline - thought for a second it might be literally true. :w00t:

 

Nick Clegg targets Brexiters in drive-by shooting

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/a...ive-by-shooting

If it was literal it’d be the first thing Nick Clegg has done since the 2010 election I’d actually be on board with

Time to show Daniel "starey-eye" Hannon for what he is:

 

on referendum night:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOEbt6toQj8

 

now: spreading misinformation about border controls and realities in other nations while avoiding the irish border issue, and not at all keen on listening to remainers, or doing nothing drastic, or maintaining ties with "the market"

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/04/21...land-dont-know/

 

Turkey is in the customs union, yet it has heavily policed borders with the EU. Norway and Switzerland are not, and have free-movement deals with their neighbours like that between Ireland and the U.K. Their borders are largely unmanned and invisible.

 

So, a liar, then as confirmed by his own statements. Still a liar now, he doesn't understand how EU borders work and non-EU borders work (ie none of them are "frictionless" while having no legal ties to the EU). Bit thick really.

If Daniel Hannon wasn't denser than Osmium he'd have voted Remain. I don't think his stupidity is either new nor news.

 

What I do agree wholeheartedly with is the dirty deceitful shifting of narratives that Brexiteers are undertaking to get their isolationist wet dream. They ran a con job on millions and are getting away with it everyday because the media, which should be shining a light on this deception, is up to its dirty neck in it.

If it was literal it’d be the first thing Nick Clegg has done since the 2010 election I’d actually be on board with

So you didn't support

 

The increase in the personal allowance

The pupil premium

Equal marriage

Expansion of apprenticeships

A substantial reduction in the use of detention centres for child refugees

 

If Daniel Hannon wasn't denser than Osmium he'd have voted Remain. I don't think his stupidity is either new nor news.

 

What I do agree wholeheartedly with is the dirty deceitful shifting of narratives that Brexiteers are undertaking to get their isolationist wet dream. They ran a con job on millions and are getting away with it everyday because the media, which should be shining a light on this deception, is up to its dirty neck in it.

 

Leavers are hardly isolationist - we want to *expand* our trading network.

 

 

So you didn't support

 

The increase in the personal allowance

The pupil premium

Equal marriage

Expansion of apprenticeships

A substantial reduction in the use of detention centres for child refugees

 

Would that be child refugees, or 'child' refugees? ;)

So you didn't support

 

The increase in the personal allowance

The pupil premium

Equal marriage

Expansion of apprenticeships

A substantial reduction in the use of detention centres for child refugees

I’m clearly exaggerating for effect.

 

But for the record:

 

I’m for progressive taxation and do appreciate the efforts the LibDems went to in order to get that. I don’t know what the pupil premium is. Education and Equal Marriage are devolved issues so Cleggs choices had zero impact on me. I do support equal marriage (although the actual legislation is poor and the Scottish equivalent is actually a lot better. It allows for religious organisations to opt out, but also to opt in to the legislation whenever they reach the 20th Century) and while I don’t pretend to even know where to begin on the English schooling system I’m down with anything that increases consequential funding for Holyrood and raises standards across the country. Anything to help the underprivileged areas that most need support is great, but pretty much non-cunty government 101.

 

Reducing detention of child refugees is a great bit of tokenism that while partly reliving a small but extremely horrific practice, does f*** all to address the underlying issues of our inhumane treatment of all refugees. And again apprenticeships are a devolved issue and I don’t know enough about the English system to make a fair comment

 

What I do have major issues with are the trade offs that were made for these. The complete gutting of the welfare system and who can forget Austerity and that incredible u-turn and complete shift in views overnight. As we all know, Austerity is an underlying cause of Brexit and that I lay very firmly at the door of the three musketeers

I’m clearly exaggerating for effect.

 

But for the record:

 

I’m for progressive taxation and do appreciate the efforts the LibDems went to in order to get that. I don’t know what the pupil premium is. Education and Equal Marriage are devolved issues so Cleggs choices had zero impact on me. I do support equal marriage (although the actual legislation is poor and the Scottish equivalent is actually a lot better. It allows for religious organisations to opt out, but also to opt in to the legislation whenever they reach the 20th Century) and while I don’t pretend to even know where to begin on the English schooling system I’m down with anything that increases consequential funding for Holyrood and raises standards across the country. Anything to help the underprivileged areas that most need support is great, but pretty much non-cunty government 101.

 

Reducing detention of child refugees is a great bit of tokenism that while partly reliving a small but extremely horrific practice, does f*** all to address the underlying issues of our inhumane treatment of all refugees. And again apprenticeships are a devolved issue and I don’t know enough about the English system to make a fair comment

 

What I do have major issues with are the trade offs that were made for these. The complete gutting of the welfare system and who can forget Austerity and that incredible u-turn and complete shift in views overnight. As we all know, Austerity is an underlying cause of Brexit and that I lay very firmly at the door of the three musketeers

 

Getting anything that can be seen as supportive of refugees past the Tories has to be considered a pretty impressive achievement.

 

Under the pupil premium schools get extra funding depending on the number of students they have from deprived backgrounds. A solidly liberal policy which the Tories would never have introduced on their own.. Naturally, that didn't stop them claiming the credit for it once they realised it was popular.

 

As I've said many times before (but some people are too stubborn to accept it) the alternative was to allow the Tories to call another election at a time of their choosing. The result would have been a Tory majority meaning more austerity, more benefit cuts, major reductions in taxes for the rich (including inheritance tax) and no Lib Dem policies at all.

 

I opposed much of what was done in the name of austerity. However, the reduction in the deficit over five years was roughly what Labour planned to achieve. They used the luxury of opposition to refuse to give even the merest hint of how they would have achieved it. Before the election they suggested that more of the reduction would have been achieved by targeted tax increases (an approach I would have preferred) but, after the election, they said very little.

Oh dear, Davy Davey has been caught out again. He has, of course, been babbling on about wonderful hi-tech solutions to the problem of the Irish border. So you might conclude that his department have been in discussions with companies who may supply the technology. The department has now disclosed how many companies they have spoken to. Guess what? The answer is “nil”. Not a single one.

Oh dear, Davy Davey has been caught out again. He has, of course, been babbling on about wonderful hi-tech solutions to the problem of the Irish border. So you might conclude that his department have been in discussions with companies who may supply the technology. The department has now disclosed how many companies they have spoken to. Guess what? The answer is “nil”. Not a single one.

 

All Remainers see is 'problems' :teresa:

Oh dear, Davy Davey has been caught out again. He has, of course, been babbling on about wonderful hi-tech solutions to the problem of the Irish border. So you might conclude that his department have been in discussions with companies who may supply the technology. The department has now disclosed how many companies they have spoken to. Guess what? The answer is “nil”. Not a single one.

 

Hah and hah. Still serial lying to hide his own ineptness. Every IT-based system sold has always taken at least twice as long and twice as expensive (conservative estimate, if I can pun a bit) as estimates, and usually far far more. Local government struggles to get minor IT systems installed inside 3 years fully-working and data working smoothly. Something as blank-canvas as this would take a decade. Plus the EU has to have confidence in the UK IT infrastructure data and figures to agree to it (paid for by the UK, no doubt with exponentially escalating costs). Given their recent history with complex IT systems, and with it's own citizens rights, not a chance the EU would trust the UK government as far as it can swing them. Quite rightly, bunch of lying no-hopers as they prove again and again.

 

There appear to be no solutions other than a complete Brexit with hard borders that rips up The Good Friday Agreement, or paying to stay in a Single Market that we have no say in. Politically, the latter is less damaging since half the lying Brexiteer tosspots claimed we could stay in it anyway during the referendum. They also claimed the Irish border wouldnt be a problem. To avoid being found to be 100% lying throughout they have to be at least half-right, which means the border takes priority. Ireland has the EU supporting it, and the UK doesn't have the support of anyone anywhere in the world over risking the return of the "Troubles" and harming both of the economies on either side of the border.

There appear to be no solutions other than a complete Brexit with hard borders that rips up The Good Friday Agreement, or paying to stay in a Single Market that we have no say in. Politically, the latter is less damaging since half the lying Brexiteer tosspots claimed we could stay in it anyway during the referendum. They also claimed the Irish border wouldnt be a problem.

 

I can honestly say that I didn't give a thought about the Irish border during the Referendum period (not that it would have made any difference to my vote if I had).

 

As for as I was concerned, all I was asked to do was make a simple choice : in or out. Any political problems that arose were what we pay politicians & civil servants fat-cat wages to deal with.

Edited April 27, 20187 yr by vidcapper

I can honestly say that I didn't give a thought about the Irish border during the Referendum period (not that it would have made any difference to my vote if I had).

 

As for as I was concerned, all I was asked to do was make a simple choice : in or out. Any political problems that arose were what we pay politicians & civil servants fat-cat wages to deal with.

 

And you certainly did make a simple choice....

Meanwhile The Mail Online gets all hot in the collar about UK holidaymakers having to pay £6 visa fees everytime they holiday in Europe. Errr did they not read the Remain manifesto? Do they not realise you have to pay to visit other countries who are not in the EU and vice versa? Did they not campaign for the end of FREE movement?

 

Blaming the EU yet again for something that many countries do, don't hear them complaining about fees to go to Florida.....

 

Meanwhile, how about some Robert Peston to cheer up Brexiteers in denial? He's always good for a laugh?

 

Robert Peston

‏

Verified account

 

@Peston

6h6 hours ago

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Seems to have been a jaw-dropping £300bn swing in foreign investment flows to and from UK, in a negative sense, between 2016 and 2017 according to latest OECD figures. Nothing to do with Brexit, of course

 

 

....or how about this BBC fact about lowest since 2012 economy growth?

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-43919094

 

Nothing to do with Brexit, look away now, no sirree, it was all due to the snow. Still members of the EU though, things can only get better over the summer then, presumably?