https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44592989

 

You know Corbyn hasn't a clue when even Baldrick has a more cunning plan - democracy! We can change our minds about government every 4 or 5 years, but apparently Brexit isn't that important for a vote on a potential shit-show.

 

Anyone who believes Brexit is going to be a nightmare should not vote for either of the 2 main parties because they are the same in reality: neither of them will have the cash to do anything they promise to do, even totally ignoring current debt. If they believe it will be a success then by all means show us the sums on any number of eventualities - cos the government's own bean-counters clearly show it's going to be messy for a prolonged period.

Given by the time there is another election we'll be long out of the EU, your point makes no sense!

 

Meanwhile, Owen Jones quite rightly states:

I fear a second EU referendum would be a huge boost for the radical right.

 

The first gave them a massive boost as it is. A second vote would be framed as an Establishment plot to thwart the first, and would be an even more viciously poisonous campaign.

Edited June 24, 20187 yr by Doctor Blind

So Brexit costs have been calculated as over 400 million PER WEEK,or 2% of the econony, in the two years since the vote. Soo we were materially better off in. Surprise surprise. No extra money for the NHS. In fact there is less full stop.

Given by the time there is another election we'll be long out of the EU, your point makes no sense!

 

Meanwhile, Owen Jones quite rightly states:

I fear a second EU referendum would be a huge boost for the radical right.

 

The first gave them a massive boost as it is. A second vote would be framed as an Establishment plot to thwart the first, and would be an even more viciously poisonous campaign.

 

My comment makes complete sense*. It's felt to be democratically important to keep referring to voters every 5 years to confirm they are happy or not with the way they are being governed. Brexit, as it's a Point Of No Return, and given the lies that voters were told (on each side if you prefer) then it makes total sense for voters to see the documents in black and white with no bias or lies. The far Right can't make outrageous claims on something that is written down in front of you and vicious or not they can't ignore people's view. It's called democracy.

 

Being bullied by the Far Right, and being frightened of them gaining further power because hypothetically that might damage the UK more than is already likely is NOT a reason to ignore democracy when so much is at stake. Let's just give in to them now then and do whatever they want....

 

The real reason Corbyn doesnt want a second referendum is because he agrees with the result even when most of his supporters don't.

(* if you think there is a chance there will be an election before the final deal is agreed, not unrealistic at all unless the end result is No-Deal Brexit before then that will bring the government down. Plus, threatening to desert Labour in droves at the subsequent election if Corbyn refuses to make sure that damage is limited as much as possible might influence his usual "Do-nothing" attitude towards Brexit)

Honestly the attitude of the current Labour opposition to Brexit is completely hideous. I think there are about 3 Labour MPs who are being visibly outspoken about it, the rest presumably have been told to keep stum by Corbyn and his team.

 

Following democracy is one thing, but I bet if you put the vote to a test nobody would want a Hard Brexit which is what we're going to go for right now. Genuinely can't believe we have a Labour party that are not challenging the Tories on this issue.

You know Corbyn hasn't a clue when even Baldrick has a more cunning plan - democracy! We can change our minds about government every 4 or 5 years, but apparently Brexit isn't that important for a vote on a potential shit-show.

 

Would you have expected Corbyn to turn up for a cause he doesn't believe in? :huh:

 

Anyone who believes Brexit is going to be a nightmare should not vote for either of the 2 main parties because they are the same in reality: neither of them will have the cash to do anything they promise to do, even totally ignoring current debt. If they believe it will be a success then by all means show us the sums on any number of eventualities - cos the government's own bean-counters clearly show it's going to be messy for a prolonged period.

But won't voting outside the 2 main parties actually help the Tories, since Remain support is stronger amongst the opposition parties - and will therefore divide the anti-Tory vote?

 

 

Meanwhile, Owen Jones quite rightly states:

I fear a second EU referendum would be a huge boost for the radical right.

 

The first gave them a massive boost as it is. A second vote would be framed as an Establishment plot to thwart the first, and would be an even more viciously poisonous campaign.

 

That scenario has been obvious to me all along - I'm just surprised that likelihood hasn't been acknowledged before.

 

So Brexit costs have been calculated as over 400 million PER WEEK,or 2% of the econony, in the two years since the vote. Soo we were materially better off in. Surprise surprise. No extra money for the NHS. In fact there is less full stop.

 

What is the source for that £400m figure?

 

Following democracy is one thing, but I bet if you put the vote to a test nobody would want a Hard Brexit which is what we're going to go for right now.

 

It's surely wishful thinking to say 'nobody'?

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/201...-beat-the-crash

 

Here's a thing: remember that odd concession from farage on referendum night that he had lost when polls said he had won (even his own)? Turns out he was busy manipulating markets to make himself & his accomplices millions, apparently...

 

What a crook, if true. What a shocker, who could have predicted he was in it for himself....!? Still a crook if not, though, as he has to repay EU money he abused for campaigning in the referendum, as I understand it, rather than for EU purposes.

-400 million weekly PLUS an extra -300£ billion from loss of foreign investment already.

 

And that's BEFORE leaving. Makes Mad May's desperation 'dividend' lies even more desperate.

 

CER

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/201...nts-study-shows

 

https://www.businessinsider.es/brexit-divid...6?r=US&IR=T

 

 

"

 

Those aren't the only unanswered questions. After the world asked how the nation’s leading pollsters could have been so wrong, British lawmakers launched an inquiry into whether misleading polls, in the referendum and other recent elections, were distorting democracy. But even members of a House of Lords select committee that looked into the subject had no idea that the companies they were probing had essentially become tools for firms wagering on the nation’s mood and votes."

 

Boom.

 

Just what I have been saying. More friends of the Tories in high places.

Would you have expected Corbyn to turn up for a cause he doesn't believe in? :huh:

 

But won't voting outside the 2 main parties actually help the Tories, since Remain support is stronger amongst the opposition parties - and will therefore divide the anti-Tory vote?

That scenario has been obvious to me all along - I'm just surprised that likelihood hasn't been acknowledged before.

What is the source for that £400m figure?

It's surely wishful thinking to say 'nobody'?

 

I expect the Leader of Her Majesty's Opposition to do his job and make sure the UK isn't permanently damaged in the long-term, not to do what he wants for selfish political motives like getting to be Prime Minister on a poverty-stricken economy he can blame on the Tories.

 

I'm not interested in where hypothetical remain voters come from and which party gets hit more, I'm interested in making sure that whatever deal is agreed is in the interest of the UK's future. Since Corbyn and May are one and the same I don't care who is handling the negotiating, I want both to know that if they don't do the right thing they will both get hammered because both know they could lose and their ideology could be wiped out by the other in power unfettered by trivial things like Parliamentary accountability.

 

An alternative scenario is that the Irish Border becomes a mess and terrorism starts up in Northern Ireland and England again. So are you saying that we should ignore that possibility as laid down in law by Ireland and the UK should be abandoned by the UK because we are frightened the far right will start murdering MP's and non-whites again? Or do we just say that anyone who breaks the law is a criminal and should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. That IS your life-long belief that everyone is responsible for their own actions isn't it? In which case the ret of us ignore violence threats, stick with peaceful democracy, and lock them up.

 

If they turn to far-right organisations politically, they are free to do that now. There have been many parties in the past, and no doubt will be again, and unless anyone has evidence that 52% of referendum voters are suddenly going to become full-on Nazis rioting in the streets and seize power then we should assume most of them won't and will continue to be law-abiding democrats free to vote in any election or referendum even if they are pissed off at having to vote in something they don't believe in. Like I had to in 2016.

 

Only rich folk, anarchists or people who dont understand the consequences would want a Hard Brexit because it would hit everyone who isn't rich quite badly and make life difficult. The government's own facts say that.

 

 

 

 

I expect the Leader of Her Majesty's Opposition to do his job and make sure the UK isn't permanently damaged in the long-term, not to do what he wants for selfish political motives like getting to be Prime Minister on a poverty-stricken economy he can blame on the Tories.

 

I'm not interested in where hypothetical remain voters come from and which party gets hit more, I'm interested in making sure that whatever deal is agreed is in the interest of the UK's future. Since Corbyn and May are one and the same I don't care who is handling the negotiating, I want both to know that if they don't do the right thing they will both get hammered because both know they could lose and their ideology could be wiped out by the other in power unfettered by trivial things like Parliamentary accountability.

 

An alternative scenario is that the Irish Border becomes a mess and terrorism starts up in Northern Ireland and England again. So are you saying that we should ignore that possibility as laid down in law by Ireland and the UK should be abandoned by the UK because we are frightened the far right will start murdering MP's and non-whites again? Or do we just say that anyone who breaks the law is a criminal and should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. That IS your life-long belief that everyone is responsible for their own actions isn't it? In which case the ret of us ignore violence threats, stick with peaceful democracy, and lock them up.

 

Only rich folk, anarchists or people who dont understand the consequences would want a Hard Brexit because it would hit everyone who isn't rich quite badly and make life difficult. The government's own facts say that.

 

1. Perhaps he doesn't belive the Britain will be worse off out of the EU?

 

2. I don't see the situation being that extreme - British democracy has survived bigger schizms than that before.

 

3. I don't believe that the threat of of renewed terrorism should have any part in determining British government policy as a whole!

 

4. Curiously enough, a lot of people do not trust government facts...

A lot of people also do not believe the world is round or that gravity and evolution are facts.

 

Ignorance does not change the truth of said facts.

(* if you think there is a chance there will be an election before the final deal is agreed, not unrealistic at all unless the end result is No-Deal Brexit before then that will bring the government down. Plus, threatening to desert Labour in droves at the subsequent election if Corbyn refuses to make sure that damage is limited as much as possible might influence his usual "Do-nothing" attitude towards Brexit)

 

Well that is true, but because of the Liberal Democrats and their wonderful 'Fixed Term Parliament Act'* there won't be a general election until 2022. A change of leader, perhaps - but still the Tories in government.

 

*and before anyone points out we had an election in 2017, that was driven by a 20+ point lead in the polls - something we won't be seeing for some time I expect.

Edited June 25, 20187 yr by Doctor Blind

A lot of people also do not believe the world is round or that gravity and evolution are facts.

 

Ignorance does not change the truth of said facts.

 

Yet this is the guy you want to be the next PM? :blink:

Well that is true, but because of the Liberal Democrats and their wonderful 'Fixed Term Parliament Act'* there won't be a general election until 2022. A change of leader, perhaps - but still the Tories in government.

 

*and before anyone points out we had an election in 2017, that was driven by a 20+ point lead in the polls - something we won't be seeing for some time I expect.

An election can still be forced by a vote of no confidence in the government. Why else do you think Mayhem is so reluctant to upset the DUP?

1. Perhaps he doesn't belive the Britain will be worse off out of the EU?

 

2. I don't see the situation being that extreme - British democracy has survived bigger schizms than that before.

 

3. I don't believe that the threat of of renewed terrorism should have any part in determining British government policy as a whole!

 

4. Curiously enough, a lot of people do not trust government facts...

 

1. Corbyn is the current leader of a political party. He doesn't impose policy from above like a God On High, though some seem to think he's The Messiah. He's not The Messiah, he's a very naughty boy. Worth repeating till the message gets through....

 

2. Then I'm glad to hear you support MP's having a final vote on the deal, good or bad, on Brexit. I assumed based on what you say that you were in favour of doing away with Parliamentary accountability and letting Theresa May & the mad Rich Trio Of Twats have their own way with the future of the UK...

 

3. Good. Then we can discount all talk of far-right criminal rioting in the streets as if in some way that justifies anything, which it doesn't. However, the Irish border is a point of law that the British government agreed to and if it wants to be known as a trader that keeps it word and repays debts as we hop on alone onto the World Stage then it had better realise it is deluded at the moment and in denial.

 

4. A lot of people think the Moon Landings were faked. That doesn't mean it is true. If the expert government staff of a government handling Brexit headed by Hard Brexiteers who want a Hard Brexit tell them facts they don't want to publish to keep the truth from the People who voted for a successful economy as promised then I would suggest it is likely to be true because they really really didn't want it published and they can't call it propaganda because they commissioned it.

A pretty grim read if true, Farage and his banker pals hedge funs using private polling to talk up the pound and then short-sell. More here: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/201...-beat-the-crash

 

Edit: Yes - just saw that was posted earlier. Quite incredible that he can get away with things like that?!

Edited June 25, 20187 yr by Doctor Blind

Yup someone shared that earlier.

 

Vile and disgusting.

 

The elite brainwashing the less educated through years of newspaper propaganda to make BILLIONS, with the Tory pollsters in on it as well. Like I said the Tory pollsters are obviously corrupt and trying to create a bandwagon effect. We saw it in America and we saw it last election ... unless you all believed the Tories would have a 350 seat majority and win the NORTH :lol: 40/ 40 my arse. Expect Labour on 50% and up in rrality, hence why they are steering WELL clear of elections and getting every media outlet from the bbc to the mail to throw dirt ... especially before the locals.

 

The rich elite's right wing coup is :puke:

Yup someone shared that earlier.

 

Vile and disgusting.

 

The elite brainwashing the less educated through years of newspaper propaganda to make BILLIONS, with the Tory pollsters in on it as well. Like I said the Tory pollsters are obviously corrupt and trying to create a bandwagon effect. We saw it in America and we saw it last election ... unless you all believed the Tories would have a 350 seat majority and win the NORTH :lol: 40/ 40 my arse. Expect Labour on 50% and up in rrality, hence why they are steering WELL clear of elections and getting every media outlet from the bbc to the mail to throw dirt ... especially before the locals.

 

The rich elite's right wing coup is :puke:

 

I mean it does make you question some of the polling, surely some sort of investigation needs to happen though because this is incredibly corrupt!

He is rich and a newspaper darling. No one will come for him.