Hunt leaving the NHS alone is the only tiny positive about all of this.

Yes they should. The referendum was handled illegally, the result should be nul and void, and everyone now knows quite clearly what Brexit means: a shit show.

 

That would be the ultimate foot-shoot for the Remain side - remember the Winchester by-election!

That would be the ultimate foot-shoot for the Remain side - remember the Winchester by-election!

 

Bring it on. It's the only honourable thing to do. Johnson Farage, Gove and davies can lie all they want to. They have no credibility and no-one will believe a word they say or claim except the obsessive people who despise the EU against all logic and are happy for chaos and misery rather than stay.

As always, a beautiful commentary on Tories from the fabulous JK Rowling, goes back decades, but let's just remind ourselves of Cameron, Davies, Johnson for now...

 

 

"@jk_rowling

12h12 hours ago

More

This is what happens when you have men in government who've been raised from birth to believe it's someone else's job to clean up after them. They throw tantrums when they finally make a mess no-one can fix. #Brexit"

Bring it on. It's the only honourable thing to do. Johnson Farage, Gove and davies can lie all they want to. They have no credibility and no-one will believe a word they say or claim except the obsessive people who despise the EU against all logic and are happy for chaos and misery rather than stay.

 

IF I weren't already a Brexit supporter, I would vote Brexit in these circumstances as a protest against the annullment of a democratic vote!

 

As always, a beautiful commentary on Tories from the fabulous JK Rowling, goes back decades, but let's just remind ourselves of Cameron, Davies, Johnson for now...

"@jk_rowling

12h12 hours ago

More

This is what happens when you have men in government who've been raised from birth to believe it's someone else's job to clean up after them. They throw tantrums when they finally make a mess no-one can fix. #Brexit"

 

Well, she always was good at writing fantasy...

IF I weren't already a Brexit supporter, I would vote Brexit in these circumstances as a protest against the annullment of a democratic vote!

 

2015 to 2017. A democratic vote, one election, was annulled by another election.

 

It's been two years. The time for seeing a second vote as a simple rerun and annulment of the first is long past.

 

not to mention that you're extrapolating that the general public would vote on their DEMOCRATIC PRINCIPLES as opposed to what their new situation is, which, well anyone so blinkered as to do that is not worth the debate.

2015 to 2017. A democratic vote, one election, was annulled by another election.

 

It's been two years. The time for seeing a second vote as a simple rerun and annulment of the first is long past.

 

not to mention that you're extrapolating that the general public would vote on their DEMOCRATIC PRINCIPLES as opposed to what their new situation is, which, well anyone so blinkered as to do that is not worth the debate.

 

So, if there was a re-run with a 'clean' campaign, and Leave won again, even with just a 1 vote margin, you'd then accept the result without all the complaints we'v had over the last 2 years?

As much as I accept every election where the Conservatives win, yes.

 

Of course I'd also continue to look to not be a part of this country while it engages in such tomfoolery but that's another matter, personal to myself.

So, if there was a re-run with a 'clean' campaign, and Leave won again, even with just a 1 vote margin, you'd then accept the result without all the complaints we'v had over the last 2 years?

 

No.

 

Three nations plus 66% to change the status quo.

 

Anyway, there are more younger people and fewer Brexiters on the roll now! PLUS no protest vote v Cameron PLUS Brexitregret PLUS harder to get away with lies! Oops. PLUS this whole MESS PLUS the reality hitting home of visas and queues to go on holiday, which the leavers said wouldn't happen, PLUS the fact that leavers hav3 had 40 years yet had no plan to show for it? But if you want to change the status quo, you better bring some votes.

As much as I accept every election where the Conservatives win, yes.

 

But whatever the result presumably you'd be calling for another referendum in 2020 (and, again in 2022)?

Well, if the issue isn't settled with a supermajority then it's clearly not been put to bed, so yes? At the least if staying in won with less than 60% then concerns about our relationship with the EU should be addressed, as they should have been if that had happened the first time to prevent it getting to this point where it's a toxic either or partisan issue.

 

That's why Ed Miliband's stance on the whole issue always appealed to me. Negotiate and alleviate and 'wait and see' before turning it into this monstrosity.

Why they went past parliament and triggered article 50 without even doing any research before it, I do not know! Well I do know: photos for the right wing one party state press!

Why they went past parliament and triggered article 50 without even doing any research before it, I do not know! Well I do know: photos for the right wing one party state press!

 

Does that include the Guardian? :rolleyes:

That's why Ed Miliband's stance on the whole issue always appealed to me. Negotiate and alleviate and 'wait and see' before turning it into this monstrosity.

 

Yes Ed's stance to not have a referendum in the first place - which was always my position - was one of the reasons that I voted Labour for the first time in 2015.

 

Let us remind ourselves of this prophetic tweet:

 

I believe, despite voting remain, that holding another referendum.. or what has euphemistically has been rebranded as 'a people's vote' will only further divide the country, erode trust in democracy and drive greater far-right populism. I don't know what the way out of this mess is, but I don't think that would be it.

The way out is to cancel it.

 

Why are the Tories obsessed with strong and stable when they are anything BUT - student riots, two minority governments, 99% of their MPs from southern England only!

IF I weren't already a Brexit supporter, I would vote Brexit in these circumstances as a protest against the annullment of a democratic vote!

Well, she always was good at writing fantasy...

 

It's not democracy if the vote was illegally influenced by and financed by a foreign power interfering in the millionaire who bankrolled a whole section of a referendum.

 

I think we have already established you'd vote Brexit even if it involved breathing in petrochemicals, swimming in chlorinated chicken treacle and all citizens paying an extra 10 thousand in tax every year, so forgive me if I'm not aghast at your view that it's fine for illegality in democracy as long as it gets the result you want....

 

JK is correct in her comment (though to be fair Davies isn't actually a rich toff, he's just allied himself with them cos he's so dumb and all), the fiction, as we have conclusively seen, was the Brexit Leave campaign..... :P

So, if there was a re-run with a 'clean' campaign, and Leave won again, even with just a 1 vote margin, you'd then accept the result without all the complaints we'v had over the last 2 years?

 

I would because no-one can complain they dont know the real choice, free from lies, is a Hard Brexit despite the damage it will do, or stay in the EU. Any inbetween version just pisses off everyone with no-one happy. Remainers still lose their freedom of movement to live and work in the EU and Brexiteers still feel they don't have freedom from the EU. On the plus side at least if May somehow miraculously gets her own way we can all be miserable about the end result together, and at least the economy wont tank as badly as a Hard Brexit.

I believe, despite voting remain, that holding another referendum.. or what has euphemistically has been rebranded as 'a people's vote' will only further divide the country, erode trust in democracy and drive greater far-right populism. I don't know what the way out of this mess is, but I don't think that would be it.

 

I would agree, but now we’ve gone down the referendum path, I can’t see any way out besides that or accepting decades of economic damage before an inevitable return.

There is something about Hunt that reminds me in mind of Peter Mandelson for some reason.

 

 

There is something about Hunt that reminds me in mind of Peter Mandelson for some reason.

 

Could you be more specific?