Even if Brexit proves a success? :huh:

 

It won't be. The island has traded with Europe from before it was even a country. The entire premise of brexshit is ludicrous.

Why do you stress 'youth support' as if no-one else's vote matters?

 

Because it is a LONG-TERM decision. The youth should have the final say.

It won't be. The island has traded with Europe from before it was even a country. The entire premise of brexshit is ludicrous.

 

*No-one*, not even hard-line Brexiters, is proposing we stop trading with Europe! :wacko:

 

Because it is a LONG-TERM decision. The youth should have the final say.

 

It is 'one person, one vote' - that's how democracy works. Who are you to say that one person's vote is worth more than another's? :nono:

*No-one*, not even hard-line Brexiters, is proposing we stop trading with Europe! :wacko:

 

It is 'one person, one vote' - that's how democracy works. Who are you to say that one person's vote is worth more than another's? :nono:

Hard-line Brexiters are wanting to take Britain not only out of Europe's single market, but also its regulatory orbit, so that might not be what they are proposing but it's what will happen. Trade with Europe will inevitably decrease, it's just a question of how much.

 

Also happy to see your endorsement of proportional representation. If we had it, then we might find ourselves in a very different situation right now.

Edited December 24, 20195 yr by Harve

Also happy to see your endorsement of proportional representation. If we had it, then we might find ourselves in a very different situation right now.

 

I've always been a supporter of PR, STV especially - that's hardly news. :mellow:

 

Why do you stress 'youth support' as if no-one else's vote matters?

The fact that young voters overwhelmingly favoured Remain meant that it was inevitable that the Leave majority would have disappeared by the time we actually left. That fact alone would have meant a less ideologically fixated government wouldn’t have given a moment’s thought to the possibility of a hard-line withdrawal. Sadly, we are lumbered with a band of right-wing nutjobs.

The fact that young voters overwhelmingly favoured Remain meant that it was inevitable that the Leave majority would have disappeared by the time we actually left. That fact alone would have meant a less ideologically fixated government wouldn’t have given a moment’s thought to the possibility of a hard-line withdrawal. Sadly, we are lumbered with a band of right-wing nutjobs.

 

What about the fact that people generally become more right-wing as they get older - that should counter-balance the young Remain voters.

What about the fact that people generally become more right-wing as they get older - that should counter-balance the young Remain voters.

There is no evidence to support your apparent assertion that there has been a shift in opinion towards Leave.

There is little evidence to suggest the current cohort of adults are becoming Conservative at anywhere near the correct replacement rate for the Conservatives to not face extinction.

 

As for Leave/Remain, that's not a left-right position. Remain is liberal centrist and the left just goes along with it because the current framing of the Brexit position would make leaving on ideal leftist terms an impossibility.

 

Leave however is doomed to extinction, it's fairly easy to age into a liberal conservative mindset, which still plumps for Remain. So now it's up to Leavers to prove that their side has good economics. This is doubtful given the state of the Withdrawal agreement. Economically, they'd be dead.

 

The one thing that might work in Leave's favour is how they frame the cultural war. Times of hardship create people looking for someone to blame. Cue circular racist-recruiting death spiral, tale as old as time. The job of the opposition and Remainers will be to find those negatively affected by the upcoming years and direct their anger at the right people. And the advantage of a majority is that's all on the Conservative government now.

*No-one*, not even hard-line Brexiters, is proposing we stop trading with Europe! :wacko:

It is 'one person, one vote' - that's how democracy works. Who are you to say that one person's vote is worth more than another's? :nono:

 

 

So you admit that the UK has a poor excuse for a democracy?

 

And this is a major constitutional change. 51%, with 80% youth support for remain, means that brexshit will be overturned almost immediately. Sooo what's the point? That is why you need 66%.

So you admit that the UK has a poor excuse for a democracy?

 

And this is a major constitutional change. 51%, with 80% youth support for remain, means that brexshit will be overturned almost immediately. Sooo what's the point? That is why you need 66%.

 

1. Where on earth did you get that from?

 

2. See you agree that we'd need a 2/3 majority to go back in - after all, that's what you yourself state is needed for major constitutional change... :teresa:

1. From the one person, one vote comment :) Also, putting rigjts, i.e our Eurppean rights, up to a simple majority vote is called, what's that? Oh "tyranny by majority". Oh. I guess that's why the USA is a REPUBLIC, not a full-out democracy ;)

 

2. No. If 50% is enough to go out, or a 1% majority of whatever figure, then it's enough to go back in :) It is reversing the major change you forced on us anyway due to England having a larger population than the other nations. From that point on, BINDING referenda PLUD safeguards k thanks.

1. From the one person, one vote comment :)

 

2. No. If 50% is enough to go out, or a 1% majority of whatever figure, then it's enough to go back in :) It is reversing the major change you forced on us anyway due to England having a larger population than the other nations. From that point on, BINDING referenda PLUD safeguards k thanks.

 

 

We can't keep coming out and going in. I think we have to stay out once we're out and not have any more referendums.

Edited December 24, 20195 yr by Crazy Chris-tmas

On 51%? With 80% youth against it? Lol. You wish.

 

Maybe if you had just done a Norway model like your promised... this hard brexshit will never take. It will be flushed. We will fix this mess you boomers have plomped on our plates AGAIN. You can cry as we fix our country for you.

On 51%? With 80% youth against it? Lol. You wish.

 

Maybe if you had just done a Norway model like your promised... this hard brexshit will never take. It will be flushed. We will fix this mess you boomers have plomped on our plates AGAIN. You can cry as we fix our country for you.

 

 

I wish you and others would stop banging on about the youth vote. If they'd bothered to get out of bed and go and vote it would have no doubt been remain. Their fault.

You can cry as we fix our country for you.

 

 

My prediction on this Christmas Eve: We will never go back in to the EU.

Edited December 24, 20195 yr by Crazy Chris-tmas

My prediction: Scorland will be in it in 6 mo ths. England will drag its feet but 80% youth support (and continually increasing) cannot be ignored. It's already 52 remain - 48 leave. Already.

 

Tories won't let the 16 - just 1 day under 18 crowd vote anyway :')

 

Brexshit is dead. You just don't know it yet.

My prediction: Scorland will be in it in 6 mo ths. England will drag its feet but 80% youth support (and continually increasing) cannot be ignored. It's already 52 remain - 48 leave. Already.

 

 

How can Scotland go back in when Boris won't give them another independence vote?

 

 

Also I notice you don't say we'll ever go back in.

Brexshit is dead. You just don't know it yet.

 

 

 

Why not give it a chance instead of being so negative all the time?

It's dead. Finished. It was a game for the rich plutocrats and oligarchs. They'll profit, the youth will inherit the vote, and boom back in Europe. It was unbelievably preposterous to treat this as binding over 51% with incredibly shallow youth support and only 27% support of the population.