Mel C just blowing Geri's 'I write everything' silly ego trip out the water. Biff also told how he took them into a small room to write Viva Forever when so many like to claim that was always down to Geri too.

 

 

Geri has never claimed to write everything... she just talked about her parts in crafting the songs. In the David Sinclair book he says that the actual co-writers themselves say that Geri had a big part in coming up with lyrics and melodies so clearly she did play an important role, and possibly more so than the other girls. That was one of her talents and she liked to be involved creatively, she was also the one who was said to have been heavily involved in finding out how things worked when they filmed Spiceworld and giving tips to Kim Fuller on what would fit each girl in the script, as said by the producers and Kim Fuller themselves not Geri.

Truly. Their treatment of both Saturday Night Divas and Denying is nothing short of criminal. :cry:

 

 

:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

There was an old thread on DenDen about some of their songs and the Spiceworld album and I remember analysing Stop and this was my interpretation (not in 1997) but year later as a teenager

 

You just walk in, I make you smile,

that's cool but you don't even know me

 

(When they first met Simon, he obviously didn't know the girls yet, but as Victoria once said, he came into the office after the'd arrived. I'm sure they charmed in)

 

Lines from verses 1 and 2

 

And we know that you could go and find some other

Take or leave it or just don't even bother

 

And we know that you could go and find some other

Take or leave it cause we've always got each other

 

(whether it was originally signing with Fuller/Virgin in 1995 or whether they meant it at the time in 1997, both of these lines say "you can sign us up, or go find someone else to manage if you're not interested, we've got each other and we've got girl power)

 

Caught in a craze, it's just a phase

Or will this be around forever

 

(Simon was caught up in pushing them harder and for things to be bigger and better. The girls knew it wouldn't last forever but they sure did put the work in, even if they burnt out by 1998)

 

Don't you know it's going too fast

Racing so hard you know it won't last

Don't you know, why can't you see

Slow it down, read the sign

So you know just where you're going

 

(I think this verse speaks for itself. They knew some things were going off the rails and that everything was moving so quickly. I also think they were inwardly singing this verse to themselves. How long we can keep this up?)

 

Not the best song analysis in the world :lol:, but hey

Edited May 25, 20205 yr by Spice Girls Net

I feel like those lyrics in Stop are like they were hiding in plain sight with the meaning of it! It's funny to think they wrote/recorded and included it on the album all while Simon Fuller was still their manager. It makes me wonder whether when Simon first heard it, if it didn't register with him that that's what the song is about?

 

It's nice to see Melanie C praising Denying - it seems so underrated. A shame it couldn't have a moment on tour. Would have been interested to know her thoughts on Saturday Night Divas. It's such a great track... if none of them care much for it, that's a shame!

Mod Edit: This post, and the posts that follow it, have been moved from the Spice Girls: Chart Runs & Sales Thread - UK topic to here. The conversation about a lyric in Spice Up Your Life seemed better suited to being in the Spiceworld album topic rather than in the chart topic!

 

I don't do streaming - if anything these recent "scandals" that's caused things to be pulled from streaming has made me more convinced that physical is the way to go. :teresa:

Which scandals?

Which scandals?

 

The whole Hulu pulling a Golden Girls episode because Blanche and Rose wore mud masks. It's not music related per se, but how long until Spice Up Your Life is seen as "problematic" because of the "yellow man in Timbuktu" lyric and needs to either be pulled or changed? I'll stick to my physical copies, thanks. :teresa:

The whole Hulu pulling a Golden Girls episode because Blanche and Rose wore mud masks. It's not music related per se, but how long until Spice Up Your Life is seen as "problematic" because of the "yellow man in Timbuktu" lyric and needs to either be pulled or changed? I'll stick to my physical copies, thanks. :teresa:

 

That line should have been changed a long time ago -_- It was awful that they kept it last year for the tour whilst preaching inclusivity...

You do realise it is about the clothing of Timbuktu men not their skin colour right?

You do realise it is about the clothing of Timbuktu men not their skin colour right?

 

I'm sorry Sammy but that's not true.

 

The term 'yellow man' is used for people of asian descent and it has historically been used as a derrogative slang. Even if the intention is not to be racist, the consequence is. The line refers to the image of an asian man in Timbuktu (in Mali, Africa) as a reference to 'colours of the world', as in they are saying 'an asian man in a traditionally black space, it's colour for you and me'.

 

Again, the intention might be to celebrate all colours. The reality of that line is that it works as an unintentionally racist line.

 

I'm not really up for discussing this anymore to be honest. It's been debated over and over and over again and most - particularly people of colour - have an issue with it. Articles have been written about it. It's about time they change it just like they changed the 2 Become 1 line.

The lyric is “colourful both me and you”, not “colour for”, so it could indeed be about colourful clothing/image (certainly something Spice Girls were known for). I’m sure that even in the 90s, referring to a person’s skin colour in such a direct way wouldn’t have been something they’d consider as fine (particularly Mel B with all that she had and has experienced). I honestly think it’s a lyric that has been open to interpretation but has ultimately been misinterpreted. As far as I’m aware the Spice Girls haven’t acknowledged the lyric; it might not have been something they’ve noticed that some people have had a problem with, thus why they continued singing it in 2019.

 

I do agree about intention vs. consequence; maybe one day someone will ask a Spice Girl about it and they can elaborate. Personally I find it quite far-fetched that they’d dream up a lyric about an asian man in a traditionally black space as providing colour (of skin tone) for them. Writing a lyric about the colourful fashion they’ve seen on their travels around the globe - more likely.

The whole 2nd verse of SUYL is meant to be about colourful costume, dancing queen, kung fu, tribal space man. Colourful both me and you refers to the colourful and elaborate outfits.

 

People just love to offended by anything these days.

Edited July 4, 20205 yr by sammy01

A quick question to you both: where can you find the information refering to 'yellow man' as a reference to a costume/fashion/clothes?

 

That is the first time I have ever heard of that being a reference to clothing (outside of this conversation) and certainly it is the first time I see it being used to justify something like this.

 

Again, no one is saying they did it on purpose. Language grows and adapts - it's normal. Yellow man though is very racist. It's always been.

 

Also, honestly what exactly is wrong with them changing the lyrics if the lyrics are offensive? Specially offensive to minorities and or people who are racialised? No one is asking them to never sing that song. No-one is asking them to completely change teh whole song. It's one line. No one is asking to cancel the Spice Girls because of it. Much to the contrary. People recognise that it is a line written with good intensions but should be changed to make sure that EVERYONE can enjoy it.

 

I honestly don't understand the constant resistance to this. The Spice Girls are all about inclusivity. The song itself is about inclusivity. Yet, the song does have a line that is clearly written with good intentions but consequently is offensive. Inclusivity means everyone. People of Asian descente might want to be included respectfully in this too, no?

 

This is so not a dramatic thing, yet the push back to this conversation ALWAYS makes a drama out of this....

 

I agree with Jay - they should be asked about it. I thought they were last year, but I see that it was about 2 Become 1 mainly.

Oh there's definitely no information about the lyric that supports that it was definitely referring to the colour of clothing, that was just an interpretation mentioned by Sammy that I hadn't previously thought about honestly, but it made me think that it does fit better with the "colourful" context of that overall verse, more so than the seemingly random reference to a person's race in a derogatory way. Technically there isn't information to say that the Spice Girls/Biff/Matt Rowe are definitely referring to Asian people either, but of course I understand that this is an obvious interpretation to draw from it - because when removed from the open-to-interpretation context of Spice Up Your Life, "yellow man" is indeed an offensive/racist term.

 

Regardless of the intended meaning, I would agree that it was a misjudgement to use it as a lyric. Perhaps it didn't occur to them at the time and it still hasn't, because they're thinking of their hopefully differently intended meaning when they sing it, and haven't had it pointed out to them that it can come across as being offensive. It's clunky writing for sure, and hopefully there will be an opportunity for them to address it at some point. If one or all of them ended up conceding that it actually is in fact about skin colour, and then agreed that it should be rewritten for live performances, I'd support it.

 

Sorry if it came across like I'm justifying the lyric in all respects, it's more that I was thinking about the context of the entire verse and what could have been meant by it instead (and what I hope could have been meant by it!), but that's not to say that people's concerns about the lyric aren't valid.

I had also never heard that reference to the lyrics Jay, and had always assumed it was referred to "yellow men" which is quite derogatory. Your interpretation does make a lot of sense though so now I'm not so sure about the need to adjust that lyric. Would love someone to ask the Spice Girls about this and see what their response was... although not Emma because she probably doesn't remember ("when we wrote that for our 7th album as the final single we were on a spaceship doing kung fu and listening to Abba's Dancing Queen")

Tuareg men from Timbuktu wear very bright traditional dress which can be in incredibly bright yellow.

 

https://images.app.goo.gl/iNfeijU1nyM4dTpt9

"when we wrote that for our 7th album as the final single we were on a spaceship doing kung fu and listening to Abba's Dancing Queen"

:lol:

While I don't know the intent of that line myself, I could understand changing it for live performances because of the perception. Maybe it could be altered depending on the city where they're performing? "London, England . . Timbuktu." "From L.A. to . . Timbuktu." I don't know. I'm spitballing here.

 

I agree with Mr. X in that words and attitudes do evolve over time...and I've got no interest in arguing against that evolution. What I wish we all collectively could do is understand the context of the year something was created.

 

I was watching the Michael J. Fox movie Teen Wolf the other day on Amazon Prime. A character uses a gay slur in it. I don't like the word. If someone were to use it today, I would think they should be held accountable. Did I demand for Amazon Prime to take down the movie? No. I get that it came out in 1985, and the general public didn't recognize the weight of that word yet.

 

Moral of the story. If social media comes for it, I would hope we could recognize Spice Up Your Life was created at a time of less scrutiny over lyrics...and we don't have to pull it from streaming services.

 

We need to understand that we're evolving...and we're definitely not finished. There are hit songs today that *will* be offensive in 20 years...we just don't know in what way yet. By then, we might see that Lady Gaga once had a song called Stupid Love...and find that inappropriate because "Stupid" could be considered an ableist word by then.

Edited July 4, 20205 yr by Piers

Great conversation and Jay, I don't think you were being racist at all. I understand that this is sticky specially for us fans.

 

But no, I don't think they were refering to people's garments, clothes or whatever. That would be the line 'man in yellow', not the line we have which is a well known racist expression.

 

Again, intentions do matter but words and their meaning do too. It's a similar thing as them refering to disabled people as 'r*****ed'. It's just not ok, whatever the context.

 

Let's wait and see if they address it or change it at all. I hope they do.

It is about the outfits, when they say space man what image do you get? An image of a space man in a space suit. Dancing queen again with the image of an ABBA like outfit, tribal again with leopard print etc.

 

The song is about bringing people together from all walks of life and they are listing a diverse set of people based on their attire that can come together and spice up their life.

 

They then list dances.

Sammy, I will say it only one more time:

 

'yellow man' is not 'man in yellow'. One is a racist slang. One is a description of what a man is wearing. Again, no-one is saying it was an intentional derrogative line, but is derrogative nonetheless in this context and outside of it.

 

Jesus...

Edited July 5, 20205 yr by Mr.X