Government advice is now to avoid non-essential travel to mainland Spain. That advice does not apply to the Canary Islands (or, for that matter, the Balearics which are much nearer mainland Spain). Quarantine, however, applies to all of Spain, including the Canaries. That seems totally illogical.

Some good news from the UK (sort of).

 

The high number of cases in the UK has meant that a number of trials of treatments (trials which require large numbers of patients) have been conducted here. Some of them have shown treatments to be useless (including the one much trumpeted by Trump) while others have yielded more positive results. Germany, for example, has not had much opportunity to conduct such trials because they haven't had enough cases.

 

Ah, you might say, that means the USA must be able to do this as well, only more so because they have so many more cases. Sadly not. Another advantage the UK has had is the centralised nature of the NHS (even after various reorganisations). That has made it possible to co-ordinate trials across the country, a necessity in order to get sufficient numbers. That isn't the case in the USA.

 

Sometimes the law of unintended consequences can have a positive effect.

I think it’s wrong to judge people for going abroad. It might be a little misguided and not something I’d personally do, but the UK government was so keen for people to go abroad that there are now a number of Brits in Spain who are finding out they face a two week quarantine when they return and were told before they went that this would not be the case. Any plans they have upon return including going to work are now out the window. I’m not criticising the government for reintroducing this for Spain now but these people only went away because they were told they could.

 

You can’t judge people from going abroad but I personally think it’s pretty stupid. The entire Devolved government have said people can go away but they haven’t encouraged it as far as I am aware? I feel a bit of sympathy for people having to come back and self isolate, but as someone who got stuck abroad when the pandemic hit I have little sympathy. The world borders all shut within 24 hours! So the fast pace doesn’t surprise me at all. If there’s a larger outbreak the first thing to go will be international travel between borders.

 

Putting a blanket ban on Spain does seem a bit extreme but I guess that’s what the Government (and not just the English government) have decided to do. With the infection rate creeping back up this is going to happen more and more across Europe. Just simply not worth the risk.

You can’t judge people from going abroad but I personally think it’s pretty stupid. The entire Devolved government have said people can go away but they haven’t encouraged it as far as I am aware? I feel a bit of sympathy for people having to come back and self isolate, but as someone who got stuck abroad when the pandemic hit I have little sympathy. The world borders all shut within 24 hours! So the fast pace doesn’t surprise me at all. If there’s a larger outbreak the first thing to go will be international travel between borders.

 

Putting a blanket ban on Spain does seem a bit extreme but I guess that’s what the Government (and not just the English government) have decided to do. With the infection rate creeping back up this is going to happen more and more across Europe. Just simply not worth the risk.

 

They brought in the quarantine rule (months late) and then flip flopped very quickly with ‘look 50 countries we’re not gonna bother with!’ and now within weeks, their having to go back on it with one nation. They may not have actively encouraged it but that’s not what this government does, they’re sneakier than that. They knew there would be a bunch of people that would be gagging to go abroad. I’m not sure why you’re mentioning devolved governments because I never did. But whilst we’re on that, you can’t deny that it’s been from the Tory government constantly telling people we need to get things going again with confusing messages. Sturgeon and Drakeford don’t get everything right but they’re always clear and always appear more cautious. They haven’t, for instance, told everyone we’ll be back to normal by Christmas.

 

And I think it’s wrong to say it’s stupid for people to go abroad when they’ve been told it’s safe to do so. I wouldn’t go but others would and some may have gone for other reasons rather than a holiday. Silas has recently come for a home visit from Germany which I wouldn’t call stupid.

Sorry no offence to anyone but if anyone has went abroad in the last month lockdown has eased just for a holiday (nonessential travel) is pretty selfish imho. It doesn't take the government to pass a law to tell anyone that imo.

Edited July 26, 20204 yr by Steve201

TO be fair, the government did say (with a reasonable degree of clarity by their standards) that there was a risk of quarantine being reintroduced for various countries at short (or no) notice. It's very much a case of "Go abroad if you wish, but it's at your own risk". Equally, the country you visit may introduce quarantine rules for visitors from the UK the day before you leave or introduce other restrictions while you are there. I'd love to nip across to northern France for a few days (after all, the Newhaven ferry is a short bus ride away) but I shall probably resist the temptation.

My argument is that the quarantine should have remained anyway, at least for a time, so that people would really think about things before they went abroad. I think it was irresponsible to revoke it and in doing that, that was low key encouragement to go away. I don’t think throwing words like selfish and stupid around are very fair.

I never would've risked an abroad holiday this year, even with my break from work, it's way too volatile atm to be sure so unfortunately this doesn't surprise me. Seems like one of their own has fallen afoul of this too as the Transport Secretary's in Spain right now :')

They brought in the quarantine rule (months late) and then flip flopped very quickly with ‘look 50 countries we’re not gonna bother with!’ and now within weeks, their having to go back on it with one nation. They may not have actively encouraged it but that’s not what this government does, they’re sneakier than that. They knew there would be a bunch of people that would be gagging to go abroad. I’m not sure why you’re mentioning devolved governments because I never did. But whilst we’re on that, you can’t deny that it’s been from the Tory government constantly telling people we need to get things going again with confusing messages. Sturgeon and Drakeford don’t get everything right but they’re always clear and always appear more cautious. They haven’t, for instance, told everyone we’ll be back to normal by Christmas.

 

And I think it’s wrong to say it’s stupid for people to go abroad when they’ve been told it’s safe to do so. I wouldn’t go but others would and some may have gone for other reasons rather than a holiday. Silas has recently come for a home visit from Germany which I wouldn’t call stupid.

 

No but the the Devolved governments have all taken exactly the same stance with Spain as well unless I’m mistaken? Look this Government is shite but it’s damned if you do, damned if you don’t. The Spanish islands I do see as a little unfair but where does it stop? Some States in the USA are relatively fine but going there is a complete no go.

 

I think by Christmas things will be “relatively” normal in that the chances of a full lockdown are very slim across the world. There are many things the English government got wrong in the early stages of the pandemic but if I’m brutally honest how they’re handling the pandemic currently is no worse than most counties and in a lot of countries/regions it’s actually better. Catalonia by all accounts has been coming for a week and the local government there have made a complete pig’s war

 

People can have their own attitude to going abroad, the chances are you will be fine. However there is a chance that you get completely fuked over. I’m sure Silas knew the risk when he travelled that there a chance he could get stuck, be quarantined, be severely out of pocket etc. etc. - it’s the people that are complaining it’s messed up their holiday or they now can’t go that I have no sympathy for (providing they booked post lockdown).

 

As I’ve said before, I saw the world shut their borders in the space of 24 hours. The same can easily happen again.

No but the the Devolved governments have all taken exactly the same stance with Spain as well unless I’m mistaken? Look this Government is shite but it’s damned if you do, damned if you don’t. The Spanish islands I do see as a little unfair but where does it stop? Some States in the USA are relatively fine but going there is a complete no go.

 

I think by Christmas things will be “relatively” normal in that the chances of a full lockdown are very slim across the world. There are many things the English government got wrong in the early stages of the pandemic but if I’m brutally honest how they’re handling the pandemic currently is no worse than most counties and in a lot of countries/regions it’s actually better. Catalonia by all accounts has been coming for a week and the local government there have made a complete pig’s war

 

People can have their own attitude to going abroad, the chances are you will be fine. However there is a chance that you get completely fuked over. I’m sure Silas knew the risk when he travelled that there a chance he could get stuck, be quarantined, be severely out of pocket etc. etc. - it’s the people that are complaining it’s messed up their holiday or they now can’t go that I have no sympathy for (providing they booked post lockdown).

 

As I’ve said before, I saw the world shut their borders in the space of 24 hours. The same can easily happen again.

 

I’m well aware the devolved governments made the same actions and I thought it was a given that my criticism would go to them as well? Although I do seem to recall the rushing of air bridges was something Sturgeon and Drakeford both Criticised Westminster for? My criticism is about the removal of the quarantine in the first place. I’m also criticising judgemental people calling others stupid because they’ve fallen into bad luck. Those people may not have made the best decision (though some will have travelled because they won’t receive money back if they cancel) but I think we can allow them a complaint about their situation without the judgement.

 

You can defend Boris all you like, you normally do with a prefix of ‘I’m not a fan of this government, but’, and that’s fine. But for the last 2 months he’s basically been dog whistling people into returning to normal whilst shedding himself of all responsibility.

 

And I’m well aware of your situation from the start of the pandemic. But no one called you ‘stupid’ for finding yourself in that situation even when you did complain.

I’m well aware the devolved governments made the same actions and I thought it was a given that my criticism would go to them as well? Although I do seem to recall the rushing of air bridges was something Sturgeon and Drakeford both Criticised Westminster for? My criticism is about the removal of the quarantine in the first place. I’m also criticising judgemental people calling others stupid because they’ve fallen into bad luck. Those people may not have made the best decision (though some will have travelled because they won’t receive money back if they cancel) but I think we can allow them a complaint about their situation without the judgement.

 

You can defend Boris all you like, you normally do with a prefix of ‘I’m not a fan of this government, but’, and that’s fine. But for the last 2 months he’s basically been dog whistling people into returning to normal whilst shedding himself of all responsibility.

 

And I’m well aware of your situation from the start of the pandemic. But no one called you ‘stupid’ for finding yourself in that situation even when you did complain.

 

The problem is there is this idea that England are utterly awful. We’ve done some shocking things, people have done worse but actually things are not as bad as a lot of people make out to be in terms of handling the virus post lockdown. I’m fine with there being air bridges and travel bans, I’m also fine with people not quarantining when returning if there is no risk. That’s a perfectly logical. What I struggle to sympathise with is clearly there is an issue in Spain which is very close to being unable to control and people will be bringing the virus in to the community again.

 

No one found me stupid because I was the victim of bad luck. When I left the virus was barely in circulation and nobody knew anything about it. Fast forward to July 2020 and it’s completely different picture. There’s tons of influencers walking around Ibiza and Marbella without a care in the world. I’ve tried to share my experiences with many people, it’s just not worth it. People can take the risk but if they want to quarantine afterwards or be out of pocket and complain about it I’m gonna struggle to find much sympathy.

I’m on holiday and I was always aware that it is a calculated risk. I have access to a friends property that I’ve been to for 5 of the last 6 years and only needed to pay for flights, which as they were 3 times cheaper than I’d ever previously paid, I jumped at the chance. It’s away from tourists and the places I go are mainly local. If there’s an outbreak and I have to quarantine then fair enough, but there isn’t and I still do. Where I am I’m at less risk than my friends and family at home, but they can live as normal and I’ve got to quarantine. The blanket ban on everywhere related to Spain is total madness

I’m on holiday and I was always aware that it is a calculated risk. I have access to a friends property that I’ve been to for 5 of the last 6 years and only needed to pay for flights, which as they were 3 times cheaper than I’d ever previously paid, I jumped at the chance. It’s away from tourists and the places I go are mainly local. If there’s an outbreak and I have to quarantine then fair enough, but there isn’t and I still do. Where I am I’m at less risk than my friends and family at home, but they can live as normal and I’ve got to quarantine. The blanket ban on everywhere related to Spain is total madness

 

Don't get me wrong, I feel sympathy in your case, but it's so hard to apply bans by exception. Where do you draw the line? I could maybe see a case for the islands. I suspect most people will ignore the quarantine as it is, so it doesn't make too much difference. That said, there will be some unlucky folk who get caught out by the spot checks.

 

If you can localise internal quarantine and lockdown you can do some form of regionalisation externally too, especially when it’s islands thousands of miles away. Wherever you are in the UK, you’re closer to the Spanish outbreak than I am.

The problem is there is this idea that England are utterly awful. We’ve done some shocking things, people have done worse but actually things are not as bad as a lot of people make out to be in terms of handling the virus post lockdown. I’m fine with there being air bridges and travel bans, I’m also fine with people not quarantining when returning if there is no risk. That’s a perfectly logical. What I struggle to sympathise with is clearly there is an issue in Spain which is very close to being unable to control and people will be bringing the virus in to the community again.

 

No one found me stupid because I was the victim of bad luck. When I left the virus was barely in circulation and nobody knew anything about it. Fast forward to July 2020 and it’s completely different picture. There’s tons of influencers walking around Ibiza and Marbella without a care in the world. I’ve tried to share my experiences with many people, it’s just not worth it. People can take the risk but if they want to quarantine afterwards or be out of pocket and complain about it I’m gonna struggle to find much sympathy.

 

The government in England is utterly awful. I didn’t mention anything about England or single them out individually, not until you brought it into this.

 

The reason why there’s been an emphasis in this thread on how awful England have handled things is mostly out of frustration that the government will not acknowledge their clear mishandling of the crisis and keep going on about their success. Even today the headlines are full of ‘massive blow to Spain’ just like they were highly critical of Italy right at the start of this and yet when England fall to the bottom of the pile, excuses are rolled out as to why it’s not that bad really. Every country has made some mistakes but it is a fact that England have made a lot of them.

 

And perhaps the devolved nations do want to separate themselves a bit but you can hardly blame them. Yesterday I saw a tweet comparing deaths in Europe and the number 61 was next to a union Flag. And yet Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland recorded no deaths that day. In fact, Scotland haven’t for 10 days and only two people in Wales have had Covid related deaths in the past week.

The government in England is utterly awful. I didn’t mention anything about England or single them out individually, not until you brought it into this.

 

The reason why there’s been an emphasis in this thread on how awful England have handled things is mostly out of frustration that the government will not acknowledge their clear mishandling of the crisis and keep going on about their success. Even today the headlines are full of ‘massive blow to Spain’ just like they were highly critical of Italy right at the start of this and yet when England fall to the bottom of the pile, excuses are rolled out as to why it’s not that bad really. Every country has made some mistakes but it is a fact that England have made a lot of them.

 

And perhaps the devolved nations do want to separate themselves a bit but you can hardly blame them. Yesterday I saw a tweet comparing deaths in Europe and the number 61 was next to a union Flag. And yet Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland recorded no deaths that day. In fact, Scotland haven’t for 10 days and only two people in Wales have had Covid related deaths in the past week.

 

But it is a massive blow to Spain? I think with ourselves and Germany we probably must bring so much in to the local economy (especially the Islands). Of course it is not a hammer blow, but it is a huge blow to the travel industry and to the local Spanish economy which needs tourism to get it through the summer months.

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again, there is no point comparing death statistics, it's all about rate of infection. Every country fudges their figures. Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland are only recording Covid-19 deaths in their statistics as people who have been disagnosed within 28 days of death. Meanwhile in England they are trying to change it to that figure, but it's getting met with some rightful criticism.

 

England have ballsed up big time of course they have, but I don't think any Government comes out and says they have done a terrible job when they have done. Even today, the Catalonia sre saying it is safe to visit and they have track and trace in place. When in reality they haven't got a hold of it at all yet.

Government advice is now to avoid non-essential travel to mainland Spain. That advice does not apply to the Canary Islands (or, for that matter, the Balearics which are much nearer mainland Spain). Quarantine, however, applies to all of Spain, including the Canaries. That seems totally illogical.

This anomaly has now been resolved. The Balearics and Canaries have been added to the no-go list.

So Belgium has tightened restrictions again.

Shopping must be done alone, masks should be worn at busy places and carried with you at all times. No alcohol can be sold in stores after 22h.

 

Antwerp, where I live, has seen a 500% rise in cases so has tightened even further. Along with the above we are on curfew from 2330 till 6, gyms are closed again and all events have been cancelled.

 

I mivht just flee to the netherlands. This virus is so problematic to contain. Belgium has made several huge mistakes in the containment as well so thats why we're here

So Belgium has tightened restrictions again.

Shopping must be done alone, masks should be worn at busy places and carried with you at all times. No alcohol can be sold in stores after 22h.

 

Antwerp, where I live, has seen a 500% rise in cases so has tightened even further. Along with the above we are on curfew from 2330 till 6, gyms are closed again and all events have been cancelled.

 

I mivht just flee to the netherlands. This virus is so problematic to contain. Belgium has made several huge mistakes in the containment as well so thats why we're here

 

Is there anything in particular that's happened recently?

 

I think you can try and contain all you want, but the reality is the economy needs stimulus and people crave normality. It is kind of sad in a way, but it's also to be expected.

 

The picture across the globe is spiraling out of the control and infections seem to be creeping up again in Europe. I have seen notes that people think thr virus circulating in Europe at least seems to be milder.

The main infections came from private parties and hookah lounges around here. And those spread withing the big households in small living spaces in the poorer area. The government reacted too late and now it's been spreading at a rate we haven't seen since somewhere halfway through may and half of those are from Antwerp