Although I'm glad that this has happened as that was unacceptable (and also Johnson's condoning of it was one of the big factors to his exit) it's a shame that it's only this kind of sleaze scandal brings these Tories down rather than horrific ideology, divide and rule policies and cronyism. So only half a cheer. But yep better than nothing.

 

Of course expecting the Tories to finally go down at the next election but 1) That could be as late as Jan 25, too effing long away and 2) Labour aren't going to change the system at all. They may clean up in certain areas but you just know that overall the problems in the country with inequality won't improve.

 

I don't think that's true. I think we may see things improve quite a bit for a lot of people under a labour government, particularly if they do go the way of renegotiating the brexit laws/policies/contract in 2025 for a closer relationship with the EU. Inequality under the current government has become so extreme since 2010 that it should be quite "easy" for labour to improve upon it if they gain a notable majority.

 

If labour create a sensible and competent government which builds closer ties to the EU and implements a number of positive policy changes, I can see them staying in power into the 2030s.

Here we go, The Tories getting blindsided by the new culture war of climate change. This is pure short termism thinking and compeltely ignoring economic growth. I'll be interested to see which side Labour sit on the fence here

Well the foreign owned by billionaires media wanted Trussism and they've now got it. Only without Truss itself. They would never have got there anyway so at least they're being honest. The really mad thing is that almost all these top politician have children - I would have thought that they would have wanted a decent future for them but clearly not.

They all have rich children they can shield from the worst effects of capitalism so they will be sweet!

They all have rich children they can shield from the worst effects of capitalism so they will be sweet!

 

There’s a few policies which are completely in achievable though to be fair, such as the ban of all new petrol and diesel vehicles. No way that can be met without some serious subsidies. I think the south of England would combust if everyone had an EV, as well as the existing pressures on the national grid. A very strange policy with a lot of headline grabbing, but I’m not sure it was thought out.

There’s a few policies which are completely in achievable though to be fair, such as the ban of all new petrol and diesel vehicles. No way that can be met without some serious subsidies. I think the south of England would combust if everyone had an EV, as well as the existing pressures on the national grid. A very strange policy with a lot of headline grabbing, but I’m not sure it was thought out.

 

This tbh

 

Sunak has claimed to have looked at the costs since he became PM and decided current net-zero policies are not affordable. Leaving aside that the long-term consequences are even less affordable, he clearly hopes that nobody will notice that he was a Treasury minister (effectively deputy to the Chancellor) at the time the commitment was made. In other words, checking that it was affordable was his job.

There’s a few policies which are completely in achievable though to be fair, such as the ban of all new petrol and diesel vehicles. No way that can be met without some serious subsidies. I think the south of England would combust if everyone had an EV, as well as the existing pressures on the national grid. A very strange policy with a lot of headline grabbing, but I’m not sure it was thought out.

 

This has been debunked many times... https://www.nationalgrid.com/stories/journe...-misconceptions

 

The grid can handle EVs.

 

Honestly the overall announcements make me sad. In the long run it's going to cost people more and I really can't wait for labour to get into power and to at least undo some of the damage the conservatives are doing. In one of the few places the UK was "world-leading", we'll no longer be.

Most businesses are already changing in prep for the change to non petrol cars anyway so will continue to do that if so and all this has done is create instability.

This has been debunked many times... https://www.nationalgrid.com/stories/journe...-misconceptions

 

The grid can handle EVs.

 

Honestly the overall announcements make me sad. In the long run it's going to cost people more and I really can't wait for labour to get into power and to at least undo some of the damage the conservatives are doing. In one of the few places the UK was "world-leading", we'll no longer be.

 

I am not sure how true that is. Seen conflicting pieces about the impact. I am pro green and being sustainable, but the 2030 target for banning of new diesel and petrol cars is very ambitious without serious national, local and govenment interventions, spending and subsidies. You're gonna need 40+ million home chargers or extra charging points across the conntry too. There is barely the infastructure in place now and the technology is expensive. I don't think it begins to get to the root of the problem with the middle to low earners who will just use petrol and diesel cars through the 2nd hand market. It's a good policy in name, but I don't think it actually solves any carbon emission problems and creates a whole host more, when you're talking 1 odd million car sales a year and 250k of them are electric. The people who can afford EV, will move naturally to them imo.

 

Most businesses are already changing in prep for the change to non petrol cars anyway so will continue to do that if so and all this has done is create instability.

 

Yeah most businesses are, which is good. A lot of the big companies have net zero ambitions, so that all helps towards those goals, which will stay the same you'd expect.

I am not sure how true that is. Seen conflicting pieces about the impact. I am pro green and being sustainable, but the 2030 target for banning of new diesel and petrol cars is very ambitious without serious national, local and govenment interventions, spending and subsidies. You're gonna need 40+ million home chargers or extra charging points across the conntry too. There is barely the infastructure in place now and the technology is expensive. I don't think it begins to get to the root of the problem with the middle to low earners who will just use petrol and diesel cars through the 2nd hand market.

 

It's a good policy in name, but I don't think it actually solves any carbon emission problems and creates a whole host more, when you're talking 1 odd million car sales a year and 250k of them are electric. The people who can afford EV, will move naturally to them imo.

 

A big problem I constantly see is people acting like diesel and petrol cars will no longer exist in 2030. It's the ban on sales of new cars. There will be 10s of millions of petrol and diesel cars around still. Banning of new cars will start the phase out period. The infrastructure is rapidly improving, costs of EV cars declining and their ranges increasing (quite rapidly with technology improvements we're seeing). By the time the 2030s come around, EVs will be much cheaper/affordable with a good range and a decent second hand market that people won't struggle to replace their old diesel/petrol cars. Infrastructure will continue to improve throughout the 2030s as well.

 

In regard to your "don't think it acutally solves carbon emission problems", transport accounts for ~1/3rd of UK carbon dioxide emissions. Half of transport emissions come from Petrol & diesel cars. Replacing them with EVs, whilst continuting to increase renewable energy/renewable energy capacity will help to reduce these emissions greatly.

 

A big problem I constantly see is people acting like diesel and petrol cars will no longer exist in 2030. It's the ban on sales of new cars. There will be 10s of millions of petrol and diesel cars around still. Banning of new cars will start the phase out period. The infrastructure is rapidly improving, costs of EV cars declining and their ranges increasing (quite rapidly with technology improvements we're seeing). By the time the 2030s come around, EVs will be much cheaper/affordable with a good range and a decent second hand market that people won't struggle to replace their old diesel/petrol cars. Infrastructure will continue to improve throughout the 2030s as well.

 

In regard to your "don't think it acutally solves carbon emission problems", transport accounts for ~1/3rd of UK carbon dioxide emissions. Half of transport emissions come from Petrol & diesel cars. Replacing them with EVs, whilst continuting to increase renewable energy/renewable energy capacity will help to reduce these emissions greatly.

 

Yeah so a ban of new vehicles in 2030 doesn't stop the issue. All it does is create a supply and demand problem in the future for 2nd hand vehichles, which will still be on the road as people can't afford to switch to them. There is currently little to zero re-sale value in electic cars with their depreciation, as when their batteries need replacing, they are so costly you might as well buy a new vehicle and anyone who buys a 3-5 year old vehicle currently is going to be severely mugged off. An affordable top spec EV gets a mileage of about 280 miles, but the mid-range ones have about 120 miles on them, which is nothing when you consider headlights, USB, Car Play, air con. I just find the policy very wishy washy and it doesn't really make a great stride to the root cause of the problem, as millions of 2nd hand cars will be on the roads still. You're going to need councils to invest millions, as well as government to installing charge points for terraced houses/flats etc. - installing a charge point in homes is ridiculously expensive as it is.

 

I can't see a good EV car being below a market value of £25k, so in lease terms, that's more like £30k as a very small percentage of people can afford to buy one outright. One wide part of a problem we are in an wider economic mess is lots of households take out credit/leases on things they can't actually afford. Until there's some sort of battery certificate and legal guarantees, the 2nd EV market is designed to fail as the dealserships that are selling the products have no ideas themselves.

Yeah so a ban of new vehicles in 2030 doesn't stop the issue. All it does is create a supply and demand problem in the future for 2nd hand vehichles, which will still be on the road as people can't afford to switch to them. There is currently little to zero re-sale value in electic cars with their depreciation, as when their batteries need replacing, they are so costly you might as well buy a new vehicle and anyone who buys a 3-5 year old vehicle currently is going to be severely mugged off. An affordable top spec EV gets a mileage of about 280 miles, but the mid-range ones have about 120 miles on them, which is nothing when you consider headlights, USB, Car Play, air con. I just find the policy very wishy washy and it doesn't really make a great stride to the root cause of the problem, as millions of 2nd hand cars will be on the roads still. You're going to need councils to invest millions, as well as government to installing charge points for terraced houses/flats etc. - installing a charge point in homes is ridiculously expensive as it is.

 

I can't see a good EV car being below a market value of £25k, so in lease terms, that's more like £30k as a very small percentage of people can afford to buy one outright. One wide part of a problem we are in an wider economic mess is lots of households take out credit/leases on things they can't actually afford. Until there's some sort of battery certificate and legal guarantees, the 2nd EV market is designed to fail as the dealserships that are selling the products have no ideas themselves.

 

The problem is you're looking at it from a 2023 perspective. By the time 2030s come around, prices will be much cheaper. Prices are already starting to decrease significantly and by the end of the decade we will likely see numerous relatviely cheap EVs with good ranges. The EV market is going to see expontential growth in the 5 years or so, which will be in part facilitated by them becoming much more affordable.

 

Having a lot of second hand petrol/diesel cars on the road is fine, it's a gradual phase out. As those second hand cars come to the end of their life people will then be able to afford to replace with a EV (might not be until the 2045-2050 until a lot of them are on their last legs). Although I do expect car manufacturers to take advantage of the ban date (regardless of if its 2030 or 2035) and there will likely be a flood of new diesel/petrol cars before the ban takes place.

 

Charging points is the one thing that I agree with will need to be improved upon. There are lots popping up by me (some in lamposts too), but being in a major city that's always bound to happen. In saying that I've been seeing a lot of hotels/pit stops etc now having designated parking spots/charging spots for EV cars. There needs to be a major technological shift so that whilst someone is parking their car to do the shopping it can charge or while idle in a public parking space. I do believe the technological shift will happen with the huge amounts of money being poured into EVs, but it requires a competent government to oversee this... Which is not what we currently have.

 

I think overall the shift to the EV market will happen a lot quicker than what a lot of people expect. Even if the government have now pushed back the date to 2035.

Edited September 20, 20231 yr by Envoirment

The problem is you're looking at it from a 2023 perspective. By the time 2030s come around, prices will be much cheaper. Prices are already starting to decrease significantly and by the end of the decade we will likely see numerous relatviely cheap EVs with good ranges. The EV market is going to see expontential growth in the 5 years or so, which will be in part facilitated by them becoming much more affordable.

 

Having a lot of second hand petrol/diesel cars on the road is fine, it's a gradual phase out. As those second hand cars come to the end of their life people will then be able to afford to replace with a EV (might not be until the 2045-2050 until a lot of them are on their last legs). Although I do expect car manufacturers to take advantage of the ban date (regardless of if its 2030 or 2035) and there will likely be a flood of new diesel/petrol cars before the ban takes place.

 

Charging points is the one thing that I agree with will need to be improved upon. There are lots popping up by me (some in lamposts too), but being in a major city that's always bound to happen. In saying that I've been seeing a lot of hotels/pit stops etc now having designated parking spots/charging spots for EV cars. There needs to be a major technological shift so that whilst someone is parking their car to do the shopping it can charge or while idle in a public parking space. I do believe the technological shift will happen with the huge amounts of money being poured into EVs, but it requires a competent government to oversee this... Which is not what we currently have.

 

I think overall the shift to the EV market will happen a lot quicker than what a lot of people expect. Even if the government have now pushed back the date to 2035.

 

How are EVs going to be affordable? In the brand new market I can’t imagine you will see one for under £30k when you factor in inflation. The car industry are out to make money, they are not going to manufacture them at a loss without government subsidied costs. You also have to factor in that there is one brand of vehicle which is using states government subsidies to gain market share (Chinese manufacturer) in Europe. New cars just are not affordable without PCP plans, which imo are dangerous to an nation that is addicted to credit like ours. A lot of the stuff that’s being suggested is all great in theory but I don’t think it’s practical. That’s not even considering that at some point the government will have to introduce road tax to electric vehicles as well.

 

The stuff that’s being suggested is pie in the sky, I can’t see supermarkets being fitted out with electric chargers in all parking spaces for years. Sure, I have no doubt it will happen, but not soon enough. Loads of work places have electric charging points, motorways do too, but there’s barely even the capacity to cope with the current demand and they don’t charge quick enough. I fully agree the shift to EV will happen quickly, but there’s so many more logistical problems that I don’t see any solutions to. We can only go as quick as the technology develops, which is not fast nor cheap. There needs to be a build up of consumer confidence, which isn’t there yet. And I’ve yet to see any solutions for even moderately rural areas, never mind rural areas.

It’s all fine and well saying “you’re looking at it from a 2023 perspective” but in reality you need to. The purchase intent for electric vehicles in 2023 so far actually dropped from last year (14%) and is currently at around 12-13%. The percentage of people looking to change from diesel/petrol to electric has also dropped and was only 10% of each in 2022 so not even one in ten are willing to make the shift..

 

You’ve also got the problem that people are more likely to transition to electric with hybrid cars first, prolonging the amount of time it takes to go fully electric. With the current cost of living crisis almost half of people who stated they were affected are now reconsidering buying a car.

 

Personally* I don’t think there will be much of a change with regards to the manufacturers, most of them have already started increasing their electric vehicle fleet and there are no rumblings that they would suddenly switch and take advantage of the date push back.

 

*as someone who has worked in customer insights and data analytics in the motor industry since 2017.

Isn't this all just a 'vibe' played out to convince those gullible enough? He's hoping that they will be convinced by the disingenuous claim that Sunak and the Tories are going to put a stop to policies that make the general public poorer, that were never on the table anyway, and are on definitely their side and totally not that of the oil and gas industry guys.

 

I think it was telling that Sunak used 'terraced house in Doncaster' as an example of someone who would benefit from the delay to replacing gas boilers from 2025 to 2035, because of course Red Ed is the MP there and is itching for timid Starmer to go further and promise more action on climate change and net zero. I thought when this was leaked the intention was to call a snap GE but it doesn't look like that, just a return to Liz Truss and her 'anti-growth coalition' bollocks. But I'm sure as someone who has literally had to upgrade the national grid infrastructure around his property so that he can heat his pool, he has a real deep understanding and empathy for how the people of the north of England are feeling (or anyone else in this country for that matter) struggling to pay energy bills.

 

Ref: EVs, I don't really know enough to speak on this, but our local leisure center recently converted its entire car park to be covered by solar panels that power charging points. In my parents village they now have a shared EV called 'sparky' (hah) which they book online to use, seems pretty effective and we used it over Christmas last year with zero issues. So there are def moves taking place, whether its gonna be quick enough to have sufficient infrastructure in place by the start of the 2030s I have no idea.

 

Also it's fair to point out that switching from petrol/diesel to EV doesn't necessarily make as much of a carbon reduction as you think it does when a significant amount of the grid is still powered by fossil fuels and this will put more demand on it.

 

Finally- think also the Gov are panicking about the loss of tax revenue when nobody is buying petrol/diesel and how to replace that. Kicking the can down the road is a tried and tested tactic.

Won’t quote the whole post DB, but RE the tax, it won’t be too long before road tax is applied to electric vehicles. It will 100% happen at some point, as it has to. The question is when and how much. When you consider the environmental impact, but most people who have made the switch to full electric are those who are in the 1% or at least a higher tax payer.

^ I guess he saw that the original policy was unworkable and used this opportunity to make some political capital.

 

The bonus was he got to troll those who actually want us to commit and go further. Presumably including his own daughters.

 

Makes me dislike him so much more tbh.

So Suella Braverman made a speech to a right wing American think tank stating that ‘being gay or a woman’ should no longer be a reason for someone to seek asylum. She stated this wasn’t discrimination apparently and believes the UN Charter for Himan Rights isn’t fit for purpose anymore.

 

Is she making a pitch for Rishis job or something or just being a bigot as usual?

Both probably and our disgusting right wing Press will cheer her to the rafters. Of course when interviewed she sidestepped the obvious "Your parents were refugees" question.

 

Little Facist Britain ahoy