Are the current BJSC mods adverse to at least entertaining the idea of trying something new though? It just seems like the door is being closed to genuinely decent ideas from members, new and old to BJSC, and it doesn’t look great when they have a voice to share their own perspective of matters. I’m not saying we should do everything suggested, just that it could at least be looked at for a fresh user base of participants. What harm could it do other than returning to the way things are currently?

I don’t think the voting period should change but I do think that semi-finals with 33 songs in is a LOT when the final itself is 40/41/42.

 

Three semi-finals with less songs in means people can dedicate more time to listening and voting for songs that aren’t just an instant ear worm.

 

Regularly I’ve had to only listen once because it’s a slog to get through three hours of music in one go. If I split them up over days, I can’t guarantee that my order is precise because I won’t remember half of them the next day!

I also think hosts should AQ BUT I’m just bitter y’all Semi Finalists 2 didn’t vote for me!!

I also won't mind having 3 semi-finals with fewer qualifiers. It helps reduce the time required to go through in one sitting.

Three semis leaves you even more open to the wrong semi effect if you're sending something niche, so you might see less of the experimental entries.

 

Not that I'd have any issue with trying it, I just feel like pots would have to be reintroduced as well to ensure everyone at least had a fighting chance, and you don't just end up with the sole rock song lumped in with 20 pop fans.

Edited April 30, 20232 yr by gooddelta

Three semis leaves you even more open to the wrong semi effect if you're sending something niche, so you might see less of the experimental entries.

 

Not that I'd have any issue with trying it, I just feel like pots would have to be reintroduced as well to ensure everyone at least had a fighting chance, and you don't just end up with the sole rock song lumped in with 20 pop fans.

 

Random.org is what I used to order things. Unfortunately it doesn’t work well all the time but it’s the fairest way consistently!

I would also be very much against having three semi finals for that reason (and I’d probably Dnq far more often)

 

I think it is just something we have to accept that instantly catchy songs have an advantage and it is ideal to send a song that stands out in the crowd or appeals to a niche base well. Eurovision itself works similarly where most of its viewers vote based on a first time listen.

I am not adverse to anything, I’m merely stating my opinion and experience of what we have tried in the past in order to guide the discussion in a more productive manner. Accusations otherwise are counterproductive

 

 

 

Three semis has been extensively discussed in the past and we do actually have a participation level where that’s viable and would actually be triggered (literally there is a fully sketched out format plan for everything from less than 40 to more than 100 participants and every step in between) but we’re not at that number.

 

Say we have 60 participants. That’s 3x20 which is nice, 14 qualify for our final of 42. You vote for half of the semi. Sometimes people struggle to vote for a third of the semi. By dividing the pot in three you increase the odds of a wrong-semi DNQ for a song that would have survived a 30 song semi. Also the numbers work wonderfully at 60, when you have any other number you start having to adjust the AQs and Qs on a month to month basis because 2 is magnitudes better for division that 3. It also means three sets of scoreboards and three sets of songs for the host to track. It’s logistically much more complicated

 

 

It’s a nice idea but not the most practical and has more negatives than positives on balance

Great to see the retro entries from Mono and Voice Of The Beehive progress. “Life In Mono” made my Top 100 of the 1990s, a very underappreciated trip-hop classic <3

 

I lost Taahino, Neliönoir and Freedonia from my votes.

 

Sudan Archives in particular I'm sad to see drop out, both “Confessions” and “Home Maker” were huge hits for me in 2020 and 2022 respectively. Really talented artist.

 

Yes that part is extra fun. Waiting for the day that I love that metal track sent by Joseph! :D

 

Still waiting for that Peppa Pig deep cut that you promised!

Random.org is what I used to order things. Unfortunately it doesn’t work well all the time but it’s the fairest way consistently!

The random team generator in randomlists.com has helped me tons and gives you a designated order format. It's probably the same thing as with random.org algorithm included but at least it gives me some wiggle room in how to present :)

wrong semi syndrome is v v real

 

Maybe an AWFUL idea but what if when we submitted entries we put a few descriptor tags with it to depict the genre or any other identifiers to help match off similarities with other songs and then actually split the entries into semis based on that so there would be less risk of a song landing in a semi that it's got absolutely no chance with? Of course there's gonna be entries where the semi doesn't matter or there's no clear side to place them on but we could also submit a little bio of what our country usually sends/votes for to help out the host like most of us have a kinda signature sound to a degree anyway :unsure: I think for that to work though it would need to be something the moderators are in charge of so there's no accusations of anyone putting anyone else in the wrong semi intentionally but I feel like as a community we're kinda past that kind of behaviour now surely? It might be worth a trial run at least :lol:

wrong semi syndrome is v v real

 

Maybe an AWFUL idea but what if when we submitted entries we put a few descriptor tags with it to depict the genre or any other identifiers to help match off similarities with other songs and then actually split the entries into semis based on that so there would be less risk of a song landing in a semi that it's got absolutely no chance with? Of course there's gonna be entries where the semi doesn't matter or there's no clear side to place them on but we could also submit a little bio of what our country usually sends/votes for to help out the host like most of us have a kinda signature sound to a degree anyway :unsure: I think for that to work though it would need to be something the moderators are in charge of so there's no accusations of anyone putting anyone else in the wrong semi intentionally but I feel like as a community we're kinda past that kind of behaviour now surely? It might be worth a trial run at least :lol:

Interesting idea Linds! Would that mean though in theory you would be placed with the same countries every contest though? I mean it would feel very biased if ones were in the same semi month after month as you would naturally get used to voting for the same nations every time, and actually, not every participant sends the same sort of sound or genre each time, at least in some cases I think. I do like the idea of tags though, that could be really useful to identify your entry with up to three unique tags per contest to allow for some highlights, but pairing countries off with similar countries does sound like a bit of a disaster and it might not always guarantee success either. I love the creativity though and please continue to suggest other ways to make it better. ^_^

No no, not pairing countries off at all, it would be completely subjective to the song you sent that particular month so you wouldn't be limited with trying to appeal to the same people every month, you could still send what you like no matter how different it is to your back catalogue

 

like for example I could send a very standard taahino entry and tag it as pop-rock, female vox, 00s vibe or something and it might get put in a semi with other songs tagged as 00s, pop, rock etc, it's just so there's a quick way of identifying similarities off the bat

Edited April 30, 20232 yr by Linds.

It’s a difficult one because yes, the wrong semi final can be a killer but unfortunately isn’t that just luck of the draw?

Yea for sure but I think if there was a way to give your song the best possible start you'd wanna take it right? At least then you know that if it does DNQ with an almost ideal audience then it likely wouldn't have had a better chance in the other semi.

 

It's maybe not something for every contest, it could be up to mod/host discretion but it might be quite fun to trial just to see if it does make a difference to the sort of variety we see in the final

The subjectivity of it is the major drawback I see. You have people applying different standards to a set of tags, depending on how specific and niche a person might get with tags vs someone who will apply a more generic label. That line has to be drawn in the sand somewhere and if we use that to define who is in what semi then we end up with pages of arguments because someone got put with the dance bloc in SF1 instead of the pop bloc in SF2. And how do you handle where a really niche genre goes? What happens when there’s three big blocks of like 15 entries each and we need to throw a couple of niche tracks to the wolves to fill out the semi

 

 

 

It adds unnecessary complexity, subjectivity, and lays the foundations for far too many arguments and funnily enough more “wrong semi” style DNQs. You’re effectively tilting the stage in favour of a couple of big sound blocs that will end up encouraging more generic and similar sounding entries and less cross-genre creativity just in case you get thrown in as a left over bloc of 1 to even the semi out.

 

I am very strongly against anything that can distort the competition. Random.org is the fairest method of dividing the semis. Splitting blocs up had no material impact, and allowing random.org to deal with the division of the semis means that it’s literally the luck of the draw every time for every country. We are all in the same boat and all face the same small risk of a “wrong semi” DNQ. They happen to us all from time to time.

True, It was just a thought anyway, I did expect that kind of response tbf

 

 

This doesn't apply to the Spodic Empire because running order hasn't affected us, but does anyone feel that they are regularly getting late slots in the semi running order and that that has impacted their qualification success?

This doesn't apply to the Spodic Empire because running order hasn't affected us, but does anyone feel that they are regularly getting late slots in the semi running order and that that has impacted their qualification success?

 

this but also early slots are probably slightly disadvantageous - the twin effects of forgetting earlier tracks and having an order mostly set in stone by the time the last tracks are reached. But some people do shuffle listens so it probably is minor(?)

 

also the only semi fixing that ever makes sense is the Eurovision style one of having half a 'pot' of (in this case) genre-leaning nations in each semi and still that requires arbitrary pot setting and pigeonholing people into a niche. randomness is I think the only fair way.

How about you put your song in one of four categories (basically a graph ):

 

MORE POP but NICHE

MORE POP but CONVENTIONAL

MORE DANCE but NICHE

MORE DANCE but CONVENTIONAL

 

obviously not every song will fit in these categories but I suppose the poster could just choose the combination that describes their taste better or who they think are more likely to be the target group of their song. Then these groups could be the allocation pots where half from each group is randomly drawn for one semi and the other half to another semi. This would mean both semis should have an equal amount of voters for all sides of this particular spectrum (as it does seem from my POV like these are where the main split comes in).

 

Maybe flawed but I do think this completely random draw we currently use is always gonna be leave some people unhappy when they get (seemingly) shafted by an unlucky draw. (Not talking about myself here btw, I think it's pretty iconic to always get 21st or 22nd in the semi when I DNQ lmao)