Get rid of the 3 track rule and only allow official singles to chart instead.

would be nigh-on impossible in the TikTok era - so many songs that make their way into the top 100 these days are random viral tracks from past years without an official single classification. album rollouts seem to be much more of a case of 'see which songs catch on before deciding on a single to push' nowadays, too

Edited July 22, 2024Jul 22 by hinterland

As someone whose a complete novice with the charts (ironically) I have real trouble understanding the rules and knowing what "stage" a song is at in the cycle before it reaches the next level of the ladder. I really do struggle and yet everyone else here seems to have it all figured out pretty well to the point of suggesting improvements.

 

I was wondering if someone could make a short educational video to explain the charts to someone who might not understand how it all works. I certainly would watch and try to learn something. I learn better by seeing and maybe some visual graphs would help me to get the point better.

Get rid of streaming completely, along with YouTube plays, ACR/SCR and whatever else they’ve added in the last decade. Songs can be downloaded on iTunes again for 79p or 59p later in their run, and every single one MUST have a CD single released at some point to be eligible, sold at supermarkets etc and HMV. A full wall of CDs of every song in the top 40 must be stocked by all retailers by law, and airplay on radio and the return of mediums like The Box and Top of the Pops to help TV play, they can then go over to Magic or VH1 once they’ve been out for a few decades.

 

In addition, songs can only be Christmas number one once, and anyone born after December 1989 is banned from the charts meaning Taylor Swift and Jordin Sparks are the youngest popstars are ever allowed to be.

Get rid of streaming completely, along with YouTube plays, ACR/SCR and whatever else they’ve added in the last decade. Songs can be downloaded on iTunes again for 79p or 59p later in their run, and every single one MUST have a CD single released at some point to be eligible, sold at supermarkets etc and HMV. A full wall of CDs of every song in the top 40 must be stocked by all retailers by law, and airplay on radio and the return of mediums like The Box and Top of the Pops to help TV play, they can then go over to Magic or VH1 once they’ve been out for a few decades.

 

In addition, songs can only be Christmas number one once, and anyone born after December 1989 is banned from the charts meaning Taylor Swift and Jordin Sparks are the youngest popstars are ever allowed to be.

 

Where do I sign up?

Remove the streaming from chart.

Agreed. To me streaming is just ripping artists off, alot of work goes in to making music and I don't feel streaming gives them justice.

Edited July 23, 2024Jul 23 by kimberley88

What I'd really like to see is a chart that works like the chart used to in the pre-digital era. One that tracks people discovering songs for the first time, that sees songs move their way up the chart as they become more popular, but then once they've reached that peak of popularity, they don't hang around like a bad smell. It would be a complex formula, but if they have the data, they can do it.

 

The problem is that would be seen as too radical to replace the official top 40 with, so it would probably have to be an alternative listing.

 

However, then problem becomes how do you generate any interest for that chart. They tried the Breakers chart in the 90s and no one cared. Then they have that Trending chart that comes out on Tuesday and no one cares about that either. So maybe it can't work.

New Zealand have a chart vaguely of this nature, which tracks week-on-week gains on overall chart metrics plus airplay for some reason (which doesn't factor in the actual chart). If you're in the interest of seeing deeper cuts get some level of chart representation in the Anglosphere, then it's just about your best bet, but I don't think anyone's flocking to look at it now that I've said this.

 

I find this approach just kind of leads to data for the sake of data and it's somewhat meaningless in terms of actually capturing audience habits in a meaningful way. How often is anyone's first listen to a song also their most profound experience with it? How often is it just finding out a notable artist has listened to a new song and checking it out to see if it's any good? I listen to nearly 100 new songs a week and only save about 5 or 6 of them for future listening. I'd hate for my chart contribution to just be one-to-one on everything I listened to, with all-time favourite and forgotten filler treated the same. It's actually my favourite thing about the prioritising of streams compared to downloads. You're actually weighting that significance with your listening habits. I understand that this leads to an inherently more 'boring' chart, but it's far more accurate. It's where I come at odds with any sort of chart tinkering generally. How much can people be willing to distort the reality for the sake of a more interesting picture? How cognizant of this distortion can one be while also convincing themselves that the Frankenchart holds credibility?

 

It's like playing Chess against the same pre-programmed bot over and over again. Eventually you're gonna piece together its general procedure. The artifice of playing against an actual opponent will slip away, and it'll be boring.

Of course streaming should be included but I’m not sure if EVERY single time you stream something it should count.

I wonder what the chart would be like if streams stopped being counted by an individual after (for example) 10 plays of each song on each platform.

 

Eg Mr Brightside - you can stream it 10 times on Spotify (however long that takes you to do naturally, whether in a day, a week or over the course of 5 years) but as soon as you’ve hit 10 streams, no further Spotify streams will count towards the chart. However, as each platform would have their own data, you’d have 10 streams on Apple, YouTube etc as well but I assume most people have only 1 or 2 main platforms they use consistently

 

I’m sure it’s not impossible to get data like that

 

I would also be in favour of a tiered SCR/ACR system.

Edited July 23, 2024Jul 23 by -SCOTT-

Also stop estimating Thursday streams. In this day and age it should take a nanosecond to get the data once Friday strikes.

Of course streaming should be included but I’m not sure if EVERY single time you stream something it should count.

I wonder what the chart would be like if streams stopped being counted by an individual after (for example) 10 plays of each song on each platform.

 

Eg Mr Brightside - you can stream it 10 times on Spotify (however long that takes you to do naturally, whether in a day, a week or over the course of 5 years) but as soon as you’ve hit 10 streams, no further Spotify streams will count towards the chart. However, as each platform would have their own data, you’d have 10 streams on Apple, YouTube etc as well but I assume most people have only 1 or 2 main platforms they use consistently

 

I’m sure it’s not impossible to get data like that

Everyone always says this but I suspect the empirical data would do more to knee-cap buzzed about current hits rather than the ironed-on ones. People on last.fm have been scrobbling "Mr. Brightside" for 20 years and counting. On average they've listened to it 12 times each. By comparison, it's taken 2 months for Billie Eilish's "BIRDS OF A FEATHER" to reach an average of 15 plays per person. It doesn't feel like a fruitful pursuit.

I would like to see streams in queues or albums or playlist prioritised over autoplay. I like "Espresso" but we can all see how its numbers were juiced on Spotify by it being autoplayed after every song (seemingly) in May.

 

In terms of the 3 song limit, I don't want a new Taylor Swift album occupying the Top 10, but I am interested in seeing which songs are most popular; maybe the 4th, 5th, 6th etc. most popular tracks by an artists can appear but at an accelerated ratio, so they're more spread out.

Also stop estimating Thursday streams. In this day and age it should take a nanosecond to get the data once Friday strikes.

 

Yeah I would say this is a must need. It seems like something you’d do in the 1850’s.

On having different ratios for playlist / autoplay streams, I’m not convinced the streaming platforms would be easily able or willing to split their data out like that. It strikes me that it’s in Spotify’s interest that playlist and autoplay streams count equally as it gives them more power, so why would they agree to something that’s both more effort for them and not really in their interest?

Can also almost guarantee that if people saw what the chart looked like under that ruling, they'd almost immediately like it even less than the current system.

What if I made the adrianreavill83 chart show?

No mentioned album chart yet that sorry states for itself. Get new album come out chart drop straight back out 2nd week every from number 1 last big artist. Because greatest hits album old album choking album chart because them song playlist need massive fix stop great hits song playlist get in album chart

But if practically no one is buying the album on week 2, why should it chart high? At least no #1 has dropped straight out of top 100 this year.

 

 

I've said it before and I'll keep on saying it. Playlist plays don't count towards the chart, people are not CHOOSING to play a particular track it's passive listening just like radio, no difference. Either both count or neither. Personal playlists, fine. I think we'll find that makes it less stale. Also, album plays count as album plays only. single plays count as single plays only, one or the other, that'd freshen up the albums chart and stop the ludicrous invasion of new albums into a singles track chart when they drop and people are checking out the new album. Nosiness does not mean actual track popularity. The sales for the least-streamed track on the album should apply as the minimum album sale and all those sales removed from other tracks on the album for singles chart purposes (if they can't actually tell if someone isnt listening to the whole album and skipping some tracks after half a play).

 

But of course streaming companies like to be in control so they won't want to give up on "exclusives" they slot into the charts by bunging them on Christmas playlists and the like......(shock horror not really popular!) The sales chart might be low these days but it does show what people like myself are prepared to spend money on - enthusiasm counts - and which acts few are prepared to spend money on - rap acts for example). I know it's not one sale per week making the chart or my obscure faves would be making the sales 100 when I buy them and they don't :lol: Cara Mia by Jay & The Americans didnt sneak in last week :D

On having different ratios for playlist / autoplay streams, I’m not convinced the streaming platforms would be easily able or willing to split their data out like that. It strikes me that it’s in Spotify’s interest that playlist and autoplay streams count equally as it gives them more power, so why would they agree to something that’s both more effort for them and not really in their interest?

 

I agree it wouldn't be in the streamer's interest. But I don't think the charts should cowtow to the streamers eithrt. The charts are trying to capture what is popular, songs people choose to play. Autoplay for me is no different to radio, and radio plays don't count so why should autoplay? It would avoid a situation like with Ellie Goulding's "River" getting to number one, not because people chose to listen, but Amazon juicing the streams to get it to number 1.

 

I theorise that Spotify knows the difference between what we choose to listen to and what we hear on autoplay; I think the former has a bigger influence on what gets recommended to us than the latter, but that's just from being a user, not from any reporting.

 

I agree that it's a bit idealistic and cumbersome to implement. But I do believe it would make the charts more accurate.

I've said it before and I'll keep on saying it. Playlist plays don't count towards the chart, people are not CHOOSING to play a particular track it's passive listening just like radio, no difference. Either both count or neither. Personal playlists, fine. I think we'll find that makes it less stale.

And I've said it before but why does it matter the exact machinations of how someone lands on a stream? I largely do my music listening through a double-nested set of Smart Playlists that dynamically updates itself and makes sure I don't hear the same old songs over and over again. Then I just hit the shuffle button. Simultaneously way more effort and way less effort than most people. If people didn't like the music that's on Today's Top Hits or whatever, they just wouldn't listen to it anymore. If they don't like that one song, they skip it. I don't like the insinuation that everyone but me is an automaton with no agency in the music they choose to listen to. It only looks that way because once you collate millions of people's listens together, you're just not going to see that individual freedom of choice on display, but it is there, being tugged at in a million directions at once.

 

rap acts for example

And I like the gross genre elitism even less, yucky.

I guess Jay-Z, The Streets, Eminem, 50 Cent, Stormy, Cardi B, Missy Elliott and Dave are the biggest enemies of charts to Popchartfreak. :P

Edited July 23, 2024Jul 23 by Sour Candy