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How beautiful :heart:

Five people charged in connection with Liam's death according to BBC:

 

Hotel employee EDP is suspected of having sold Liam Payne cocaine on 15 and 16 October

 

Waiter BNP is also suspected of having sold cocaine to Liam Payne twice on 14 October

 

Payne's friend RLN is suspected of manslaughter for allegedly "failing to fulfil his duties of care, assistance and help" towards the singer after having "abandoned him to his luck knowing that he was incapable of fending for himself and knowing that he [Payne]suffered from multiple addictions"

 

Hotel Manager GAM is suspected of manslaughter for allegedly failing to stop Payne from being taken to his hotel room moments before his death. According to the court papers, given Payne's state, the room's balcony posed a "serious threat" and the manager should have ensured Payne was kept in a safe place until medical help arrived

 

Chief receptionist ERG is also suspected of manslaughter for allegedly asking three people to "drag" Payne, who could not stand up, to his room, instead of keeping him safe.

 

Hearing how preventable this could've been just makes it all the more tragic :(

Sorry but some of those charges seem very extreme. It’s easy to say people should have done more after the fact but either way it shouldn’t be something people are compelled to do by law. I have the greatest empathy for what Liam had been going through and it breaks my heart the way things turned out, but he was an adult and responsible for the decisions he made.

Sorry but some of those charges seem very extreme. It’s easy to say people should have done more after the fact but either way it shouldn’t be something people are compelled to do by law. I have the greatest empathy for what Liam had been going through and it breaks my heart the way things turned out, but he was an adult and responsible for the decisions he made.

 

That’s literally the law in Argentina for hotels. Safety mechanisms are in place for a reason and they didn’t follow them. If you fail your duty of care and it results in death then it’s factually manslaughter. Nothing extreme about it really. They should have known the law and the guidelines for such circumstances, I doubt this kind of situation is that rare for hotels or hotel staff.

That’s literally the law in Argentina for hotels. Safety mechanisms are in place for a reason and they didn’t follow them. If you fail your duty of care and it results in death then it’s factually manslaughter. Nothing extreme about it really. They should have known the law and the guidelines for such circumstances, I doubt this kind of situation is that rare for hotels or hotel staff.

 

 

Why should anyone else be responsible for the actions of a grown man who made the choice to take something he shouldn't have done. The person supplying the drugs being charged seems fair, the rest sounds utterly ridiculous, regardless of the laws in Argentina. There are laws that it is still illegal to be homosexual, doesn't make them right.

I disagree. I think the staff had a level of responsibility to ensure the safety of a guest in their hotel - i.e. not taking a clearly inebriated person to a room with an accessible balcony and then leaving him by himself. They may not be responsible for his decision to take drugs, but nevertheless they made the choice to move a vulnerable person into an area that was unsafe, which ultimately led to his death.

 

It's essentially what manslaughter is - no intention to cause harm or for their actions to result in death... but death occurred partly due to negligence.

Why should anyone else be responsible for the actions of a grown man who made the choice to take something he shouldn't have done. The person supplying the drugs being charged seems fair, the rest sounds utterly ridiculous, regardless of the laws in Argentina. There are laws that it is still illegal to be homosexual, doesn't make them right.

 

You could say that about any law. The law in Argentina is pretty clear. They had a responsibility to take specific actions in such circumstances. Nothing outrageous. Just making sure a clearly troubled person is safe or bare minimum not put in harms way until help arrives. Instead they put that person in a room with a balcony in which he subsequently died falling off that balcony. It’s pretty clear cut. They’re culpable and it’s textbook manslaughter. A lot of people drink and drive everyday. Only if they hit someone and they die would it be manslaughter. Same here. I’m sure they’ve not followed the guidelines many times and nobody has died but this time someone did and they absolutely should have prevented it by the guidelines of the law and their own responsibility as a hotel. So this is the correct consequences. There is a reason these laws are in place and if the staff followed them probably Liam would still be alive today.

I disagree. I think the staff had a level of responsibility to ensure the safety of a guest in their hotel - i.e. not taking a clearly inebriated person to a room with an accessible balcony and then leaving him by himself. They may not be responsible for his decision to take drugs, but nevertheless they made the choice to move a vulnerable person into an area that was unsafe, which ultimately led to his death.

 

It's essentially what manslaughter is - no intention to cause harm or for their actions to result in death... but death occurred partly due to negligence.

 

 

You could say that about any law. The law in Argentina is pretty clear. They had a responsibility to take specific actions in such circumstances. Nothing outrageous. Just making sure a clearly troubled person is safe or bare minimum not put in harms way until help arrives. Instead they put that person in a room with a balcony in which he subsequently died falling off that balcony. It’s pretty clear cut. They’re culpable and it’s textbook manslaughter. A lot of people drink and drive everyday. Only if they hit someone and they die would it be manslaughter. Same here. I’m sure they’ve not followed the guidelines many times and nobody has died but this time someone did and they absolutely should have prevented it by the guidelines of the law and their own responsibility as a hotel. So this is the correct consequences. There is a reason these laws are in place and if the staff followed them probably Liam would still be alive today.

 

 

Again, Liam's fault not theirs. He chose to take the drugs not them. Using the drink driving incident, if you saw a stranger drunk getting into a car and did not go and stop them, are you then guilty for them crashing and dying? Not everyone is confident enough to deal with people in that state, plus didn't reports say he was being aggressive? Why should someone else put their life in danger? I assume he would eventually have made his own way to the room, where the same thing could easily have happened due to the state he was in, would they also have been responsible then?

 

While Liam's death is tragic, it has ruined the lives of others too all because he chose to take the drugs. He was doing something illegal in the first place which put others in a situation where they had to make incredibly difficult decisions based on his actions not theirs.

Edited December 31, 2024Dec 31 by Spiceboy

I would have to agree with those who say the charges seem excessive - especially (with the limited info available) his friend for leaving him.

A grown man seeks out drugs for his own consumption and dies as a result... sure there's some liability with the hotel staff who sold him drugs, but ultimate responsibility? I would have to say that lies with Liam alone.

 

Of course, the law is the law. And I respect this is the law in Argentina.

Again, Liam's fault not theirs. He chose to take the drugs not them. Using the drink driving incident, if you saw a stranger drunk getting into a car and did not go and stop them, are you then guilty for them crashing and dying? Not everyone is confident enough to deal with people in that state, plus didn't reports say he was being aggressive? Why should someone else put their life in danger? I assume he would eventually have made his own way to the room, where the same thing could easily have happened due to the state he was in, would they also have been responsible then?

 

While Liam's death is tragic, it has ruined the lives of others too all because he chose to take the drugs. He was doing something illegal in the first place which put others in a situation where they had to make incredibly difficult decisions based on his actions not theirs.

 

No it is theirs hence the charges. Liam didn’t die on a backstreet. He died falling from a balcony in the hotel AFTER they were aware he was not in a good way. You can’t just gloss over that part. If you get into a fight and you go to hospital with bad injuries and they just leave you on a stretcher and forget about helping you and you die it’s their fault for not helping you. The fact you got into a fight becomes irrelevant. They had protocols and procedures and laws to follow and they didn’t follow them. They actively put him back into a room with a balcony. Even without the clear laws and rules they’re breaking to do that it lacks all common sense. The problem is people are acting like they’re being punished for a lack of common sense when Liam chose to take drugs but no they broke clear laws which resulted in someone’s death. He almost certainly wouldn’t have died if it weren’t for falling from a balcony and they should have prevented that and you could argue they actively caused and facilitated that. He was in the lobby they brought him into the room by himself.

 

It’s 1-5 year sentence for such manslaughter charges and the drug charges will be more severe. Sounds about right to me really. There are all these guidelines and laws in place and it’s really simple to follow them and yet they didn’t. So how can they escape culpability when it results in such a preventable death? Liam lost his life so he paid the ultimate price but they also have to pay a price for their errors which again were law breaking errors that resulted in a preventable death. That’s why these laws exist to prevent such deaths.

 

 

I would have to agree with those who say the charges seem excessive - especially (with the limited info available) his friend for leaving him.

A grown man seeks out drugs for his own consumption and dies as a result... sure there's some liability with the hotel staff who sold him drugs, but ultimate responsibility? I would have to say that lies with Liam alone.

 

Of course, the law is the law. And I respect this is the law in Argentina.

 

I get what you’re saying but remember Liam didn’t die of an overdose, he died falling from a balcony. For that to happen a lot of people made critical mistakes or were plain negligent and I do think it’s right there are laws that are against that.

I never said they didn't break the law, simply that the laws are ridiculous and that just because they are laws doesn't make them correct. If Liam had not taken those drugs he would never have put other people in a situation where they had to make a choice, it's his fault at the end of the day.

 

Also the friend leaving him? I'd leave my friend if they chose to take drugs, I wouldn't want to be around them and potentially be associated with the crimes they are committing. I would lose my job if there was any association, albeit I'd leave before they took the drugs if I knew they had them.

As per the quote above, he was allegedly "dragged" / "taken" to his room. He didn't make his own way.

 

The manager called the police before Liam fell and mentioned the potential danger of the balcony in his room, so he was taken there... to a place they knew was dangerous. We don't know whether the manager themselves was involved in making that decision but the danger was known before Liam fell.

 

I agree that Liam was responsible for taking the drugs, but there's a series of events that happened after that which were sadly out of his control and where his death could have been prevented.

As per the quote above, he was allegedly "dragged" / "taken" to his room. He didn't make his own way.

 

The manager called the police before Liam fell and mentioned the potential danger of the balcony in his room, so he was taken there... to a place they knew was dangerous. We don't know whether the manager themselves was involved in making that decision but the danger was known before Liam fell.

 

I agree that Liam was responsible for taking the drugs, but there's a series of events that happened after that which were sadly out of his control and where his death could have been prevented.

 

 

I didn't see he was "dragged" there, I wonder if this was because he was supposedly acting aggressive? His death would have been prevented had he not taken the drugs so actually it was in his control... I know that sounds really harsh and unsympathetic of me and I truly do feel so sorry for him and the family, but it is his fault for putting others in that situation in the first place.

 

My cousin was addicted to heroin for years so I have sympathy for the struggle people addicted to drugs go through (for their entire lives). She thankfully was strong enough to overcome her addiction, but she herself to this day takes full responsibility for having put us in some horrible situations by taking the drugs in the first place.

I don't think anyone's saying the drug-taking wasn't in his control. It definitely was, it was his decision, and those selling drugs obviously deserve the charges fully. The issue is that after he lost control, stuff could have been done to help him, and though it was not the sole impact, the actions of the hotel stuff did have a direct impact on Liam's death.

But only because he put them in that situation in the first place. Were he ill or injured and they did the same then fair enough, but he chose to get into that state of his own accord. That was in his control and I think it is unfair other people's lives are ruined because of a situation he put them in by doing something illegal in the first place.

The thing is, Liam sadly isn't here anymore to be able to make the choice to take responsibility for his addictions, if he'd been able to reach that point.

 

Although his tragic fall & death is in major part because of his inebriation (I don't think anyone is claiming that he's entirely blameless), it's also partly because of the negligence of others. I'm a little surprised by the view that no one else is at all culpable for what happened to Liam. Putting it all on Liam's choices to take drugs is a rather black and white outlook in my opinion. It's not like we're discussing death due to an overdose here, which would be more clear cut between his choice to take the drugs, and the dealers supplying the drugs. His death was caused by falling off a balcony and suffering fatal injuries - after being left in his room in that vulnerable state, by hotel staff.

 

It is of course very unfortunate that his drug taking and the effects that this had on his behaviour, unwittingly made staff members become involved with him. That these staff members made decisions that unwittingly led to Liam's death. This is essentially what manslaughter is all about though, unintentional involvement in somebody's death.

 

I guess we're just going to become repetitive now, but I'll just end by saying... I'm glad that Liam and his family will get some justice. They'll of course still have to live with the loss, and with the knowledge that Liam's addiction contributed to his demise.

Is it though? I thought manslaughter was accidental cause of death, they didn’t cause him to fall off the balcony, he did by being in that state in the first place. Why should the hotel staff have any responsibility for him being in that state? If I put someone back into their house and left them and they fell down the stairs because they were so drunk would I be liable for their death because I didn’t stay with someone who is essentially a stranger? Why are they more liable just because they worked in the hotel?

 

I don’t personally see persecuting other people who really have minimal involvement other than being put in a pretty horrible situation due to the illegal choices that Liam has made, is justice for the family at all.

 

I of course respect your differences in opinion but so far nothing I have seen or read suggests to me they are culpable for him dying, it’s him.

Edited January 1Jan 1 by Spiceboy

Liam's cause of death has been confirmed at a UK inquest as "polytrauma", which is "a term for multiple traumatic injuries which have been sustained to a person's body and organ systems".

Is it though? I thought manslaughter was accidental cause of death, they didn’t cause him to fall off the balcony, he did by being in that state in the first place. Why should the hotel staff have any responsibility for him being in that state? If I put someone back into their house and left them and they fell down the stairs because they were so drunk would I be liable for their death because I didn’t stay with someone who is essentially a stranger? Why are they more liable just because they worked in the hotel?

 

I don’t personally see persecuting other people who really have minimal involvement other than being put in a pretty horrible situation due to the illegal choices that Liam has made, is justice for the family at all.

 

I of course respect your differences in opinion but so far nothing I have seen or read suggests to me they are culpable for him dying, it’s him.

 

At first I thought this too, but have you read Geoff Payne's testimony?

 

Bascially sounds as if Liam was a full blown addict, who was aware of this and was trying to be stable. He gave up his phone and the only way Liam was contactable was through a third party. The whole set up he had with his associate sounds dofgy AF, almost like someone was controlling him and his estate and slyly taking advantage of the fact he was an addict in a subtle way to make money through his partner. Who knows exactly what happened, but it's pretty clear someone let him get high and was controlling his life. All those cringe social media posts make complete sense now.