It was a fascinating read until it was closed.

 

I agree, which is why I re-opened it. Just because a few people are making some pretty silly comments should not preclude the more intelligent posters from making their perfectly valid points. You dont censor a whole subject just because a few are too thick to get it, if people are making silly, irrelevant comments, then all that needs be done is to delete those comments, I dont believe a minority of idiots who are making ill-thought out comments should spoil it for the majority of us who are making reasonably thought out points....

Oh, aren't YOU so adult TiP...?? <_< THe only thing that annoys me is your innate childishness tbh mate, and your continued ridiculous labelling of me, and your insistence that being Anti-Racist somehow equates to "political correctness" (whatever that means..), the Tabloids would be SO proud of you.....

 

Getting to the point though - I didn't hear you advocate any kind of censorship when we were all "speculating" about Michael Jackson's innocence or guilt during his child abuse trial.. Seems to me that everyone and his dog had an opinion about that one as well....

 

We didn't close down any topics concerning that, so I see no reason why we should close a very fertile and active topic on this particular time's biggest media event. This is what we do on the "Perspectives" forum, we theorize, we speculate, we discuss....

 

But, where I do agree is that we have to be incredibly careful about anything the media says...

 

Oh surprise surprise, you get your facts completely wrong (again!) :rolleyes:

 

I was not even online when the Wacko trial happened.

 

For the record, I would have said exactly the same thoughts as I have done in this case, until he was charged it is hot air and speculation, once he was charged & it got to the trial then it is fair game.

 

 

But unfortunately there are far too many Schadenfreudes on this site for my liking.

 

No doubt you just wished this happened to the Blairs or the Beckhams instead of an unknown family. But hey you would probably have had them executed by now.

Just heard today about evidence in Kates diary that she had a motive to kill.

 

Where????

 

this is on none of the official news sites.

 

I'm getting sick and tired of people posting rubbish without a reference to back it up.

 

 

 

 

but it IS if its based on flawed evidence, if the ever changing facts are wrong then anything based on them is hot air.

 

i fully agree though that their (zeuss, tip) well researched, intelligent posts are what the forums about, but they are getting swamped out by kids discrediting or not understanding the points made.

 

As brilliant, well written, well researced as Zeuss's posts are for the aguments that they are behind this, the fact still remains that most of what he is saying is coming from the media, they are not theories invented by him. Most of what he was basing his argument on about the DNA in the car, and her apperently admitting in her diary to have sedated Maddie, both of which have been confirmed as not being credable as the DNA results are not even strong enough to show whether it id a girl or a boy, never mind Maddie, the hair could've got there easily considering the McCanns used that exact car to move all her belongings from the apartments to the villa, and the journalist who originally broke the story about the contents of her diary has apperently since admitted that he made it up.

 

Not sure if anyone saw it but there was a very good programm about the evidence on tonight on ITV's 'Tonight with Trevor McDonald, which basically interviewed various forensic experts who explained how the evidence could not be proven as being Maddie, and that the sniffer dogs going 'wild' when they senced death or blood could also not be credible evidence as they cannot tell the difference between blood and death or something along those lines, and as the DNA cannot be proven to be her's, then it could've got there from someone elses who had previously hired the car, afterall it was not the McCanns own vehicle. They also interviewed various journalists, especially Portuguese journalists, who admitted to having made up endless rumours about this whole thing (mostly the very same rumours the British media have printed after them). They went through most of the claims, and the only one that makes me think twice, is the whole thing of the shutter being forced in the apartment with Gerry claiming it was, and the Police saying it could'nt have been. But then, even IF the McCanns are behind her death, why would Gerry say something so stupid when surely it was obvious he would be caught out due to the fact that they admitted to not locking the door, that is what I don't get.

 

I have been talking to so many people about this (off-line), and although most don't think they are behind it, those that do are the very same people who believe what they have read in the papers, and all seemed to be saying that he DNA had 100% been in the car, and how Kate admitted in her diary to having sedating her. It seems alot of the public will read something and the more guilty it makes the partents look, that more inclined they are to believe it, despite the fact that claim after claim is constatly being proven as not being credibable or in some cases completelly made up.

 

The Judge is making his decision on Wednesday as to what to do next so finally the speculation may be near an end and we will know if they do have strong enough evidence to finally charge them or if they will let them off.

I'm getting sick and tired of people posting rubbish without a reference to back it up.

 

Ditto.

the mother looks guilty, but i haven't seen/heard any hardcore evidence 2 back it up.

 

apart from the bs printed in the press, not much is known about this case tbh

Reading through this, although I don't agree the thread should be closed, it's quite depressing reading through some of the replies.

"I think that the mother killed Madeleine and Gerry is covering up for her.. "

"I think this is the biggest load of rubbish I've ever heard. If they did kill her it would've been purely accidentally."

"Please - please - do not let Gerry manipulate how you think

- his story's are laughable, & he loves it when people believe him."

 

It's feels like people are treating this as if this is some sort of Cluedo game, or an Eastenders whodunnit, it's almost become a fun guessing game for people. I'm probably reading the comments wrong, but it's almost as if people have forgotten this is an actual family that have been ripped apart, an actual girl who has been taken. There's something a bit sick about all the speculation (and I don't just mean the board, I mean EVERYONE). We've already seen it ruin one man's life (assuming Murat is innocent), but it doesn't seem like any lessons have been learnt.

This is getting kinda ridiculous TBH. I mean what's wrong if people speculate here about different opinions/state what they consider they believe what happened to Madeleine based on current info? The site is full of speculating..I mean on chart chat it is full of specualting how the next Girls Aloud single will chart...No-one is demanding there that people should have hard facts that they are basing their opinions to. I know that this is WAY different case but in the end the same kinda speculating. If you can talk here only about hard facts then there could never be any discussion about ANY current news that will end up in court...since basically before the final ruling after all appeals it actually is just speculating...and even after the final verdict you might argue that the case was flawed and based on speculation. In this thread even the longest writings with most sources and most convincing arguments still are as much speculation as if some1 writes just that he thinks the parents did it...

 

Some people here seem so offended but why? No1 here has been actually offensive (or I haven't noticed)...people have just taken offense when there have been posts from people not sharing their thoughts about the issue. When some1 backs their statemant with something from a newspaper or whatever it seems to be regarded everytime coming from a rubbish source that is totally unreliable (how do u know that? A usually rubbish tabloid actually might have a real story in it...and BBC get facts wrong).

 

If the parents are going to be prosecuted then all we can hope is that the truth will come out in the trial and that it will be a fair trial. And TBH, it wasn't like the media forced her parents into public eye. They really seem to have been very publicity greedy lately. I understand that if they didn't do it they wanted all the attention they could get after it happened but the attention now is quite useless...and if they did it and kinda accidentally created this frenzy they should have quit already...one way or the other, it was quite expected that along the road they took there would be several media backlashes and when they decided to take the road they should be ready for all the speculating...it will continue as long as they make very public appearances pretty much several times a week (and certainly not against their own will).

 

And about the motive that someone spoke here...appearantly Kate McCann told for the Portugese newspaper (magazine?) Flash! that Madeline was a very difficult child and especially after the twins were born she just couldn't control her anymore ( I think this was also on Daily Mail's website)...thou I'm not sure the writer necessarily meant this in his post...

ill delete any one liners that are opinion backed up with nothing.... so thats accounted for any missing posts.

 

this morning on bbc news the portuguese police will not be bringing back the mccanns to portugal for further interviews. the british police could do it for them. looks like 'evidence' is nothing much more then grasping at straws.

Where????

 

this is on none of the official news sites.

 

I'm getting sick and tired of people posting rubbish without a reference to back it up.

 

CLAIM: Portuguese police have requested the help of British officers to look into Gerry and Kate McCann's psychological and mental backgrounds.

 

Detectives are said to want to study Mrs McCann's confidential medical records after reading her personal diary, in which she allegedly described her children as "hysterical".

 

However its just a claim and nothing offical so it could indeed be complete c**p

 

Read entire article here (full of interesting claims) - The New Allegations

Even if they are guilty I do not believe anyone will ever be bought to trial over this case and sadly Madeleine will never get the justice or dignified burial she deserves

 

One thing that disgusts me about the whole case whether the McCann's are guilty or innocent is the involvement of the government in this. Gordon Brown personally involved, Clarence Mitchell his press secretary in charge of PR for the McCann's, hardly helps bring about fair justice and on the surface stinks of the government pulling a few strings to get the PJ off the McCann's back, yet the government have the nerve to complain about Russia protecting the alleged killer of Litvinenko

 

This case will not have a happy ending, no one will ever be charged with Madeleine's death, the McCann's will make multi millions out of books and film deals, Madeleine will never have a proper burial, the McCann's will be allowed to keep the twins even though they are guilty of terrible child neglect even if they killed Madeleine or not and so on

 

 

No doubt you just wished this happened to the Blairs or the Beckhams instead of an unknown family. But hey you would probably have had them executed by now.

 

Talking nonsense AGAIN..... I dont even believe in the death penalty.... But I do believe in justice and punishment.....

 

Mate, a lot of your posts are intelligent, well thought out and make sense, and then you go and spoil it by spouting silly, childish rubbish like this....

 

I dont like the McCanns simply because I believe that they are guilty of something, might not be murder, but abuse and neglect..? I dont think that there is any shadow of a doubt there and NO ONE should be making excuses for the way they've acted as far as their fukked-up ideas on child welfare go; and I am bloody sick of the way they manipulated the media for their own selfish ends which had very little to do with actually finding their daughter (just how the fukk is having tea and biscuits with the sodding POPE or putting up cinema ads in BRITISH cinemas gonna help the police track down their missing girl in PORTUGAL, tell me that Einstein....). No, these two represent everything that is wrong in our culture - the "Celeb" mentality which has its origins in America and has infected this country like a fukkin' virus. If you look to other notorious cases such as Holly and Jessica and Sarah Payne and seen the calm dignity with which those kids' parents acted, the contrast with the 'Media Whore' McCanns could not be more stark....

And TBH, it wasn't like the media forced her parents into public eye. They really seem to have been very publicity greedy lately. I understand that if they didn't do it they wanted all the attention they could get after it happened but the attention now is quite useless...and if they did it and kinda accidentally created this frenzy they should have quit already...one way or the other, it was quite expected that along the road they took there would be several media backlashes and when they decided to take the road they should be ready for all the speculating...it will continue as long as they make very public appearances pretty much several times a week (and certainly not against their own will).

 

Exactly, they invited the press to go around following their every move, they used the media for their own publicity hungry ends, a lot of it had precious little to do with actually finding their daughter IMO, all this publicity actually did as far as I'm concerned was to completely hamper the PJ investigation with a barrage of false leads and bad info which made their jobs a lot more difficult. And now we have Gordon sodding Brown jumping on the bandwagon.. Yeah, like that's gonna help..... <_<

 

But unfortunately there are far too many Schadenfreudes on this site for my liking.

 

I do agree with that point actually, you're totally right... We have ALL missed sight that at the centre of this is the fact that there is a little girl missing...

 

But, you know what mate, ask yourself, who's instrumental in creating much of this "schadenfreude" in the first place, the Press is responsible for a fair amount of it, but equally responsible as far as I'm concerned, are the two individuals you seem to continually defend through their rather brazen attention seeking and hunger for any and all publicity.....

 

If you ask me it's all just a front to distract us all from the fact that they know themselves that they did wrong and that they are ultimately responsible for the fact that their daughter is missing through their neglect.... That to me, is the important issue here, and the one area in all this where there can be no doubt at all....

ok.... im not as educated as some of you, wtf is a "schadenfreude" please, not only for me but anyone else.

Even if they are guilty I do not believe anyone will ever be bought to trial over this case and sadly Madeleine will never get the justice or dignified burial she deserves

 

One thing that disgusts me about the whole case whether the McCann's are guilty or innocent is the involvement of the government in this. Gordon Brown personally involved, Clarence Mitchell his press secretary in charge of PR for the McCann's, hardly helps bring about fair justice and on the surface stinks of the government pulling a few strings to get the PJ off the McCann's back, yet the government have the nerve to complain about Russia protecting the alleged killer of Litvinenko

 

This case will not have a happy ending, no one will ever be charged with Madeleine's death, the McCann's will make multi millions out of books and film deals, Madeleine will never have a proper burial, the McCann's will be allowed to keep the twins even though they are guilty of terrible child neglect even if they killed Madeleine or not and so on

 

The FULL TRUTH.... The tabloid press are very quick to point out any shortcomings at the Portuguese end and seem to ignore the behind-the-scenes political machinations and chicanery that are pretty evident on this end....

 

Another poster has pointed out the depressing nature of this whole affair. He/she is quite correct... How the hell did it ever come to this, that the fate of a little girl can be used as political capital by corrupt, desperate politicians and other vested interests on BOTH sides....? <_<

 

ok.... im not as educated as some of you, wtf is a "schadenfreude" please, not only for me but anyone else.

 

ok "pleasure gained at someones misfortune".

ok "pleasure gained at someones misfortune".

 

Yep, you got it.....

 

I dont really believe that anyone is gaining any actual pleasure from this though... What I'm detecting is more anger than anything else on this Forum, anger doesn't normally equate to pleasure... But I do wonder about some of Josh's posts sometimes though to be honest, he does get a bit close to the edge sometimes....

 

but this is whats got me about this thread, i detect alot of ghoulish, 'car crash' interest in this sorry affair.

 

 

but this is whats got me about this thread, i detect alot of ghoulish, 'car crash' interest in this sorry affair.

It's unfortunate, but it was bound to happen though mate. I'm sure the police investigating this case would much prefer the Press, the politicians and the McCanns and their PR reps to butt out and actually let them get on with their job.....